On Jun 17, 2:12 pm, Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
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wrote:
Does someone have a definite answer to this question?
Player A and Player B are playing a blitz game for sizeable (at least
- to them) stakes. Player A has the piece in his hand to make the
mating move, when Player B calls his time down (before he can
complete the move). Who wins? An Eastern European spectator said that
in "his country" you were always allowed to "complete" the mate. I
would say no - Player A did not "complete" his moves in the required
time. If the spectator is right, this could mean that if a player
wanted to delay a tournament for some reason, he could hold the mating
piece in the air for as long as he wanted without making a move (he
could never lose on time). (let's say he wanted to see the result of a
nearby game before proceeding to play his next opponent)
I can't find the "Eastern European" rule on the FIDE site - or any
other sets of blitz rules that I checked. Who wins? $4 rides on the
result.
*The* definitive place for finding answers to such questions is
_An Arbiter's Notebook_ by Geurt Gijssen, which may be found at
[http://www.chesscafe.com/geurt/geurt.htm]
Google has an option under "advanced search" that allows you to
search a single website. So you can find all occurrences of "Blitz":
[http://www.google.com/search?q=blitz...hesscafe.com/]
... Or all occurrences of "Blitz" + "Mate" + "Flag" + "Fall":
[http://www.google.com/search?q=blitz...tp://www.c...]
There is a lot there, but after a bit of digging I found this:
|
|http://www.chesscafe.com/text/Geurt58.pdf
[...}
| Suppose that at the same moment White mates his opponent
| his flag falls. In that case what happens on the board
| is relevant: the mating move finishes the game. Even
| when it is not clear what happened first -mate or flag
| fall- mate is decisive.
|
Analyze this last paragraph carefully. It implies three things:
[1] If the Mating move is completed before the flag falls,
the mating player wins. [A]
[2] If the Mating move is completed after the flag falls, the
player with the unfallen flag wins.
[3] If it cannot be determined which happened first, the mating
player wins.
My reasoning: If in both situations [1] and [2] the mating
player wins, it makes no sense to discuss what happens if it
cannot be determined whether the situation is [1] or [2].
Likewise, if in both situations [1] and [2] the player with
the unfallen flag wins, it makes no sense to discuss what
happens if it cannot be determined whether the situation
is [1] or [2].
The fact that the Eastern European spectator spoke of an
alleged rule variant used in his country is an admission
that the normal rule found in the FIDE laws of chess exists.
Basic fairness demands that if a rule variant is used that
it be announced and agreed upon before start of play.
This is not only true of chess, but of every sport and game
with only one exception -- Calvinball.
--
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The "Eastern European's" point was that allowing a player to complete
a move after their flag has fallen eliminates the disputes arising
from "I mated you first" "No - I called your flag first" "No you
didn't" etc. He insists the Russian/Soviet Federation had a set of
blitz rules which allowed this (dating back to the 1980's), and that
Azerbaijan adopted these rules. I asked him to bring me a printed
copy.