Some simple points to help your reading comprehension, Mr Sloan. The
source was anonymous, as was stated. "The fact that Bobby Fischer said
that Winter is not a real person was big news in the chess world."
Once more, linking to a web page that contains no mention of Winter in
any manner, does not constitute a backing of your claim. Nor is it
relevant, who your close personal friends are or how long you have had
friends. You are free to keep pushing your slant and injecting Keene
into every situation.

"It probably is not necessary for me to point this out, but just in
case anyone has failed to pick up on this: Sam Sloan has given no
source for his claim that 'All of [Keene's books] have been attacked
by Winter.' It is perhaps worth noting that this version of Sam
Sloan's claim does not include a reference to what he earlier tried to
have us believe about Raymond Keene's articles. ('For the past more
than 30 years, every time a new book by Keene has come out or a new
article by Keene has been published, Edward Winter has written
articles attacking it.')" - Louis Blair (5 March 2006)

Tom Dorsch, Tom Dorsch, Tom Dorsch. You really are starting to
sound like a broken record. Have you noticed how the discussion was
going at WPRV? Not very well for you, as almost all the other
administrators weighing in on it are maintaining it should stay
deleted. I'm not writing this to gloat, just to point out that you
need to accept when you're wrong. It's true that I became an admin on
Dec 26, but you'll note that I was approved with 74 support votes and
no opposition, so obviously the community trusts that I know what I'm
doing. To repeat for the nth time, the article was deleted in
accordance with the deletion policy. I was unbiased towards you at the
time (having never heard of you) and I remain to this day so. You have
the potential to become an excellent Wikipedia editor on chess topics;
it's just that you can't seem to grasp the fundamental concepts of why
we do what we do here. I suggest you start with Wikipedia:Five
pillars. When you start to grok what this is all about, you'll find
yourself facing much less opposition. howcheng {chat} 07:20, 6 March
2006 (UTC)

No. You are the one who is a broken record. You are 100% wrong
and you refuse to admit it. There is no point to my "becoming an
excellent Wikipedia editor on chess topics" if a wide ranging free
roving rogue Wikipedia administrator such as yourself is going to be
going here and there willy-nilly deleting all my postings. You state
that you have become involved in all my other contributions because
you "were asked to do so". Obviously, everybody who dislikes me is
going to be forever going to User:Howcheng asking you to delete my
stuff. You will notice that I have almost completely stopped posting
to Wikipedia ever since you deleted the Tom Dorsch article. I am a
widely respected, published author. Why should I waste my time with
somebody such as you?

Your fellow administrators cannot do math. You need a
remnedial math course. One of your fellow administrators said that the
vote was 19-4 against me. Completely wrong. User:Rook_wave who
initiated the RFD then voted 6 times to delete. Go and count them.
User:Phr voted five times to delete. Go and count them. User:Billbrock
voted three times to delete. Go and count them. Then, there were six
anonymous votes to delete. Take a look at the bottom six votes at
Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Tom_Dorsch . All were anonymous. So
there were at least 18 invalid votes. Meanwhile, six voters voted to
keep and wrote long, detailed explanations about why Tom Dorsch is
notable. So, the majority of VALID votes were in favor of keeping the
article. Also, one of the votes to delete was Jurgen R., who posts
from Germany and is one of the FAKE SAM SLOANS who impersonates me
from time to time.

Then, you write that I was recruiting "meatpuppets". What is
your source for that statement? You cite a statement by
User:Rook_wave. But meanwhile Rook_wave was over on the chess
newsgroup rec.games.chess.politics recruiting people to vote to
delete. Under the rules, as soon as he made the RFD he is supposed to
stay out of it and not even vote. Instead, he voted six times and any
time anybody voted to keep, he challenged or attacked him, either here
or over on rec.games.chess.politics

How do you know the votes to keep or delete were my
"meatpuppets" or his "sockpuppets"? What you fail to understand is
that all of us chess players know each other. It is very unlikely that
some completely unknown person is going to come in and post.

You should just admit your mistake, which puts the entire
Wikipedia into disrepute, reinstate the article and allow somebody who
is not biased to pass on it. Sam Sloan 13:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Edward_G._Winter"

I'm the most hated asshole. I need some loving. Maybe I'll pay my wife
to give me some.

Sam Sloan

_
"The only thing I deleted of 'yours' (please see WP:OWN)
was Tom Dorsch. I have not edited Chess Life or Edward G.
Winter. Where is the link to any such message by
Rook_wave on r.g.c.p.? Anyway, recounting the votes on
the discussion page shows only one legitimate keep vote,
which is Mgm and seven valid delete votes: Jareth, Phr,
Olorin28, Titoxd, TheRingess, Parallel or Together, pgk. I
did not count any votes by anonymous users, as well as
Andrew Zito (who just had some weird anti-Wikipedia rant)
and Billbrock, who has a history with you." - howcheng
(17:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"Keep deleted valid AfD and difficulty in keeping Sam
Sloan from using this as an attack page." - .:.Jareth.:.
babelfish (14:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
_
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion
of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments
should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the
article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should
be made to this page.
The result of the debate was delete. When meatpuppets call for
deletion, you know it's bad. howcheng {chat} 20:09, 29 December 2005
(UTC)
_
[edit]Tom_Dorsch
delete: barely notable person, only for regular readers of chess
related usenetgroups and people interested in US-chess functionaries,
the article itself gives no hint, why Tom Dorsch should be notable
enough for a wikipedia entry; article is mainly vanity, filled with
personal accusations and rumors; the prime author has a long standing
quarrel with Tom Dorsch, well documented on his homepage(s) and obvious
in the arcticle; he is not able or willing to provide a NPOV, although
he has been explicitely asked to do so; I suggest deletion instead of
complete rewrite, as it is questionlable that anyobody is interested in
doing so Rook wave 11:17, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
_
Comment: I've rewritten the article, or rather, I've deleted everything
that's either a personal attack, unencyclopedic and/or
unsourced/unreferenced. While I do not want to disrupt the deletion
process, I don't think it's nescessary to keep the article in it's old
form for a week longer, just because of this AfD. I don't know anything
about this guy (therefore, I will refrain from voting), nor have a been
involved in the discussion on the talk page, I'm just an editor
applying what I believe to be common sense and Wikipedia policy.
--JoanneB 11:31, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Tom doesn't appear to be active in chess recently. His FIDE card lists
no games this year and he doesn't have a world ranking. Is there
anything else that could make him worth including? (BTW, what's a chess
politician?) - Mgm|(talk) 12:03, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Regarding chess politician: I prefer the notion chess functionary,
simply somebody involved in the organization of chess; Tom Dorsch was
for some time treasurer of the United States Chess Federation and twice
president of the Northern California Chess Association, and if the
article would not be deleted these were his only notable achievements,
and my first edits (regarded by the prime author as vandalism) indeed
reduced the article to just those facts. What he as achieved when being
in those positions, the primary author unfortunately did not consider
worth mentioning.
Regarding his rating: currently only a minority of players has a FIDE
rating or many entries to this card; Tom Dorsch has a United States
Chess Federation rating, but indeed he hasn't played for some time. His
rating is high, but not exceptional. Rook wave 12:40, 19 December 2005
(UTC)
Tom Dorsch was for some time treasurer of the United States Chess
Federation and twice president of the Northern California Chess
Association -The preceding unsigned comment was added by
MacGyverMagic (talk =B7 contribs) .
Keep has held several top positions in US chess organizations. -
Mgm|(talk) 13:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
OK, this might be a reason, but it still leaves the question: who is
going to provide the necessary facts? The original article did not even
give the complete years Tom Dorsch held those positions. There are
nearly no neutral facts in this article. Rook wave 14:20, 19 December
2005 (UTC)
Dorsch was treasurer of the USCF and president of the Northern
California association (Calchess). I don't see that as "several top
positions in US chess organizations". The USCF is the US national
federation but Treasurer is not a top position, and Dorsch served only
one term, in the early 90's. Calchess is a state organization (actually
half a state, there's a separate Southern California regional
organization), not a national one. Dorsch is a somewhat notable figure
in recent USCF history and should get a mention in an expanded USCF
page, but it's bizarre to say that every USCF ex-officer (there are
hundreds of them) rates their own Wikipedia article. The USCF itself is
not that important an organization. The person currently holding the
comparable office (Finance VP Jonathan Mariner) in Major League
Baseball, a much more noteworthy organization than the USCF, doesn't
have a Wikipedia article, let alone someone who held that office many
years ago. Imagine ex-functionaries of a national stamp collecting club
getting all this Wikipedia heat. The only reason it happens for the
USCF is because of the contentious personalities in the chess world
arguing over nonsense. Phr 11:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Keep. Like I've been discussing on the talk page, all of the POV junk
and attacks need removed, User:Sam Sloan disagrees -- that's why
there's a current RfC on the article. Nothing to suggest he's not
notable though. And thank you Joann for cleaning up the article again.
..:.Jareth.:. babelfish 17:47, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Since there seems no chance to keep this article anything but a blatent
attack, changing vote to Delete. .:.Jareth.:. babelfish 14:19, 27
December 2005 (UTC)
The most noteworthy thing about Dorsch was his campaign for USCF
treasurer and what happened after he won the office (all his duties
were taken away by the opposing faction which still controlled the
policy board). Explaining this would require spending pages on stupid
USCF internal politics which almost nobody cares about. The reason
Sloan made this page at all is he's in the faction opposite the one
Dorsch was in. Having an article about Dorsch makes no sense at all
without a neutral treatment of those issues, but I don't think anyone
is likely to write such a treatment. Certainly not Sloan. (OK, quick
POV version: Dorsch ran on a financial reform platform against vested
interests that have controlled the USCF on and off for decades, made
accusations of mismanagement that turned out to be true, but was a
dorky enough personality that not enough people listened to him at the
time, partly because it was in their financial or factional interest to
not listen. That includes Sloan.) Trying to turn that into an article
would be one of those endless debates that would burn as much of
people's wiki-editing energy as the serious national politics articles
do, but on a subject of relevance to almost nobody. So creating this
article in the first place basically amounts to trolling. I hope
non-chess people who voted "keep" based on not understanding the
situation will consider changing their votes. Phr 11:23, 25 December
2005 (UTC)
Regarding the changes by Joann: ok, now the article is much shorter,
but it's still junk. Come on "He plays chess and has now become a poker
player" - what is this? As I said: my complaints about this article are
not primarly based on the notability of Tom Dorsch. It's the complete
emptyness of this article. And who is going to write something? Even
what Joann has left is not verified. If you remove this as well, only
the title tag remains. So the content of this article is: "There is a
man called Tom Dorsch." Bravo. Rook wave 18:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Delete Dorsch is a former treasurer of the USCF, which is sort of like
being a former treasurer of the National Bowling League or a former
councilmember of some small city. He did have a role in the USCF's
transition to the one-member-one-vote system (he opposed it) and he
could reasonably get a mention in the USCF's article if it's expanded
to cover that history (edit: his treasurer campaign too, a related
topic). His highest chess rating was in the 2300's, probably around
1000th in the US--pretty good for an amateur, but nowhere near
professional level. The stuff about him getting more Google hits than
GM Vesselin Topolov was an error due to Sloan mispelling Topolov's name
as "Topalov" when Googling. FWIW, Googling "Tam Dorsch" or "Tom Darsch"
gets zero hits. Phr 03:59, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Comment Wouldn't the treasurer of the National Bowling League be more
notable? Billbrock 23:53, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Delete Sam Sloan is insisiting on reverting the article to his own
version, and as such, I call for a delete and a complete rewrite after
the delete has been done. Olorin28 03:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Delete. This article is obviously in a crappy state, and I don't think
it is going to be fixed up any time soon. When there's an actual
article here, I might vote keep. But until then, no. Titoxd(?!? - help
us) 03:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Delete per Olorin28. I am not neutral WRT to Sam Sloan, and would note
to admins that I have no desire to inject my animus into the Wikipedia
project, except that this is the character of the Wikipedian in
question. Billbrock 07:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Strong Delete I don't know why this one wasn't speedied as an attack.
It seems to me, an unsourced and unverifiable statement like "....If he
won even more, he would go to Tijuana, Mexico, where he would check out
the whorehouses and the strip clubs..." can only be construed as a
personal attack.TheRingess 07:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
delete: barely notable person -The preceding unsigned comment was
added by 69.149.49.251 (talk =B7 contribs) .
delete: I am a chess player from the USA and think this article is a
waste of everyone's time. In the world of chess Tom Dorsch is
insignificant and the article does not belong. This is yet another
attempt by Sam Sloan to get noticed by the world at large. Warren
66.32.15.53 01:07, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Delete, based only in small part to the sorry state of the article and
based not at all on Sam Sloan, who I have never heard of or dealt with
as far as I am aware. I don't think Dorsch is all that notable, save
for what is mentioned by Phr (who makes some good points). -Parallel or
Together? 12:53, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
User Rook wave, who started this discussion, has been going around
removing content from all of my postings. He has made 41 edits to my
pages, all of which have removed content, and he has done nothing else
on Wikipedia. He should be ordered to stop doing this and if he
persists, he should be blocked. Sam Sloan 01:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
_
Keep--public figure based on own self-promotions, including on usenet
over a period of years. -The preceding unsigned comment was added by
68.167.65.99 (talk =B7 contribs) .
_
It is suspected that this user might be a sock puppet or impersonator
of Sam Sloan.
Please refer to contrib history coinciding with Sloan's pet subjects
"USCF blacklist" and Damiano's Defense for evidence. See block log
..
Note Sloan has also attempted to recruit meatpuppets on Usenet [1],
though that attempt seems to have backfired--it attracted people here
who support deletion. I will say sockpuppets aren't really Sloan's
style since his ego is too large for that. He probably just forgot to
log in when he made those edits. Phr 13:23, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I cannot imagine why you think that this poster is my "sockpuppet" or
even me. I have just looked at his postings and I do not agree with
what he has posted on any subject. I do not agree with what he has
written here either. However, he makes a valid point. If you look at
rec.games.chess.politics and do a search for postings by
you will see that he has posted 2,680 times to thst
group. Most of these postings took place from 1996 to 1999 and were
signed "Tom Dorsch USCF Treasurer". So, he was an official who posted
2,680 times to Usenet. Most of his postings accused others of financial
wrongdoing, theft and other crimes and misdemeanors. Please do a search
there and you will see what I mean. This is what made him so well known
in the chess community. Sam Sloan 15:00, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
KEEP - Dorsch is well known in the world of chess, and deserves
recognition. The article itself could use some polishing, but it should
be fixed and maintained. -The preceding unsigned comment was added by
Cwcarlson (talk =B7 contribs) .
_
KEEP - Tom Dorsch is very well known in the chess world (nationally and
internationally) and has been instrumental in the United States Chess
Federation. -The preceding unsigned comment was added by
207.215.30.18 (talk =B7 contribs) .
_
DELETE - I think this is a ridiculously inappropriate article -The
preceding unsigned comment was added by Ardy53 (talk =B7 contribs) .
_
Keep This issue shows the complete bankrupt and petty nature of
Wikipedia's modus operandi, members, and raison de etre, though I
support the proper construction of such an article I think Wikipeda is
a collective waste of time intellectually: Where they venerate the
"HOLY BIBLE" for some obscure legalist reason today from the stuff
cults are made of, but then next week they will burn and destroy those
same "holy" documents on some flimsy pretext merely because they have
enough votes in legalistic BOOK BURNING as part of some psychotic
adversial process that is run like some childishness for the sake of
integrity and fairness based merely on form and rules. WIKIPEDIA A
GRAND MIND F--K a pedantic idiots' paradise where which ever side you
are on you will win and tommarow upon the changing winds of shallow
fashion some other will. I suggest all chess articles be forwarded to
pushedpawn.org, deism to the templeofreason.org as without sure
consistent editorial focus beyond the instance of the moment Wikipedia
has the integrity of an adolescent fool. The focus of Wikipedia should
be substance not form, and it should be based on preservation of every
nuance of what may be a scintilla of what may pertain to knowledge
wisdom learning and pertinence not the pettiness that is Wikipedia. THE
ANTI_WIKI FOR I AM NOT FOOL --Andrew Zito 04:46, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
_
DELETE - unknown and irrelevant person; author (Sloan) is a psychopath
who cannot distinguish fact from fiction. (J=FCrgen R.) -The preceding
unsigned comment was added by 84.152.22.177 (talk =B7 contribs) .
_
BLANK VOTE - Many professional biographers have noted the problems of
including even insignificant persons in a biographic dictionary ("what
is the use of this long procession of the hopelessly insignificant? Why
repeat the familiar formula about the man who was born on such a day,
was 'educated at the grammar school of his native town,' graduated
in such a year, became fellow of his college, took a living, married,
published a volume of sermons which nobody has read for a century or
two, and has been during all that time in his churchyard? Can he not be
left in peace ..."). Their problem is, on the other hand, almost always
related to the lack of space in printed editions -- if Wikipedia
suffers even remotely from such a problem, the solution is not to
refuse to accept material. My second concern is the relevance of the
subject: this is not something to be voted over, unless the voters can
be assumed to be reasonably knowledgeable about the context
(contemporary chess afairs), as well as fairly unprejudiced towards the
subject well as the author. I strongly suspect many voters on this
topic vote largely because of lack of confidence in the author. If
Wikipedia is to be taken seriously, a more stringent method to decide
the inclusion of a particular name is required. I can't decide from the
context if the voting is to deny the subject, or deny the article on
that subject. In any case, when the subject is judged it should be done
impartially. My third concern is with the article: I believe that a
biography of any kind needs much more than this particular article
shows ... but I also believe that neither biographers nor
Wikipedia-authors are born ready-made. A process frpm draft to finished
article seems to be called for. Wikipedia must have a procedure for
handling these situations: and that must be considered by all parts as
impartial and trustworthy. (A. Thulin)
_
That essay belongs in a discussion of grand wikipedia policy, not a vfd
about a particular article. Right now the policy is that non-noteworthy
biographies get deleted and there's guidelines for establishing
noteworthiness. Debating whether the policy and guidelines are good
belongs somewhere else. The vfd discussion is simply about whether
Dorsch meets the guidelines. Phr 11:23, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
DELETE - While Tom Dorsch was a notable figure in the United States
Chess Federation, the article as written provides practically no
coverage of the issues that made Dorsch important. Instead, the author
relates us with tales of Dorsch's activities and proclivities from long
ago, which have very little relevance or place in an encyclopedia.
Sloan has often written disparaging comments about Dorsch -- and vice
versa. It serves no purpose to accept his characterizations of Dorsch
as anywhere near accurate enough for inclusion in an encyclopedia. As a
United States chess player and former executive board member of the
United States Chess Federation, I think it would be a travesty to allow
this interpretation of Dorsch stand.
_
DELETE - Mr. Sloan is using Wikipedia for settling scores and posting
his delusions of greatness. Have you folks learned nothing from the
Siegenthaler debacle?
_
Delete Doesn't seem that notable and original author seems to revert
any attempt at clean up, therefore can see no hope of this becoming a
substantial cited NPOV article --pgk(talk) 14:40, 24 December 2005
(UTC)
Are you paying attention? You just made six changes and I did not
revert any of them. I did, however, add three paragraphs to the top
which better explain why Tom Dorsch is a notable person. Every
tournament chess player in the world has heard of Tom Dorsch. Are you
one of them? Sam Sloan 15:42, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
This is the diff from the "current" version to the one after I made my
first edit to remove the paragraph saying Sloan didn't believe that
Dorsch was involved in the JFK assassination attempt (since it wasn't
suggested anywhere else that he was, saying he wasn't seemed odd). This
is the diff from my last edit to the current version where indeed you
undo more of my edits, including removal of the cleanup tag. So yes I
was paying attention. --pgk(talk) 16:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I see what you mean. However, I did not intentionally remove the
cleanup tag. I am not sure how that happened, but it does seem that
sometimes changes are made that do not show up in the "history".
I have no objection to any real clean-up. I have not reverted any of
your changes. I do object when Rook_wave, JoanneB and Janeth, none of
whom know anything about chess, try to delete the entire article. Sam
Sloan 16:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Delete. The article is almost complete nonsense, utterly inaccurate,
and defamatory.
_
DELETE - Articles which are about mostly unknown minor officials in
sporting associations, have no place on Wikipedia. Particularly ones
which are badly written, and are there for the wrong reasons. I would
think it hard to believe that there would be anybody else who would be
prepared to rewrite this, or replace it with another article.
_
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please
do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate
discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion
review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Tom_Dorsch"
Categories: Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets of Sam Sloan |
Wikipedia:Suspected sockpuppets
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Sam Sloan wrote (13:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
(at Wikipedia) and here (Mon, 06 Mar 2006
13:23:56 GMT):

Then, you [Howcheng] write that I was recruiting
"meatpuppets". What is your source for that
statement?

_
On 08:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC), Howcheng had
written
_
"Mr Sloan, please read WP:SOCK#.22Meatpuppets.22.
In the case of Tom Dorsch, you clearly posted a
message recruiting people to come and 'vote to
keep'"
_
and provided a link to this note:
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Path:
g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!news.glorb.com !newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fj serv.net!newspeer1.asbnva01.us.to.verio.net!129.25 0.35.102.MISMATCH!newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.n et.POSTED!8b18be56!not-for-mail
From: (Sam Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.politics,rec.games.chess.misc,alt. chess
Subject: Tom Dorsch Wikipedia Controversy
Organization: Ishi Press
Reply-To:
Message-ID:
References:
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243
Lines: 14
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:52:05 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.199.110.255
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net 1135057931 68.199.110.255
(Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:52:11 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 05:52:11 GMT
_
It would be most helpful if anybody here went to the Wikipedia
site and added a paragraph or two or even a sentence about Tom Dorsch.
_
Also, please go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ion/Tom_Dorsch
and vote to keep. Right now the same three prople are over and over
again demanding that the article be deleted. One person even said that
Dorsch being treasurer of the USCF was comparable to being the
treasurer of a bowling league.
_
You may not agree with my biography, but I think you will agree that
Dorsch is worthy of a biography.
_
Sam Sloan
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

_
"Keep deleted for all of the reasons above."
- Zoe| (21:48, 6 March 2006 (UTC))

Sam Sloan wrote (13:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC))
(at Wikipedia) and here (Mon, 06 Mar 2006
13:23:56 GMT):

Rook_wave was over on the chess newsgroup
rec.games.chess.politics recruiting people to
vote to delete. Under the rules, as soon as he
made the RFD he is supposed to stay out of it
and not even vote. Instead, he voted six times
and any time anybody voted to keep, he
challenged or attacked him, either here or
over on rec.games.chess.politics
_
How do you know the votes to keep or delete
were my "meatpuppets" or his "sockpuppets"?
What you fail to understand is that all of us
chess players know each other. It is very
unlikely that some completely unknown
person is going to come in and post.

_
"Your statement I had voted six times is
simply wrong. I already pointed this out to
you in the rec.games.chess.misc. I made
several comments, but I voted exactly once.
Still you insist on repeating this obvious
misrepresentation of the facts, in the
newsgroups and now here. And that I were
at the newsgroup recruiting people is an
open and blatant lie. Your behaviour is a
shame. And as a side remark: that all
chess players know each other is simply
ridiculous. There are millions of chess
players world wide. You don't know me, I
don't know you and I don't feel the wish to
change this." - Rook wave (22:29,
6 March 2006 (UTC))

_
"... that all chess players know each other is
simply ridiculous. There are millions of chess
players world wide. You don't know me, I
don't know you and I don't feel the wish to
change this." - Rook wave (22:29,
6 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"You are not a chess player. There is no
record of you ever having been a member
of the German Chess Federation or of you
ever playing a tournament game of chess
or ever having had a FIDE rating or a rating
by the German Chess Federation. Just
because you know the legal moves of
chess does not make you a chess player.
For you to call yourself a chess player
would be like me calling myself a baseball
player just because I once played Little
League Baseball." - Sam Sloan (11:22,
8 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"What are you talking about? Here you'll find
my rating card of the German Chess Federation:
http://schachbund.de/dwz/db/spieler.html?zps=22065-103
and this is my FIDE-card:
http://fide.com/ratings/card.phtml?event=4666313
Are you lying out of habit or are you really
so inapt to get the simplest facts straight?"
- Rook wave (12:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC))

_
"The reason I consider this just to be a dispute between
me and User:Howcheng is that every time any of my
critics see something by me that they do not like, they
go to User:Howcheng. The request to delete the Tom
Dorsch article was made by User:Rook wave whose
postings to Wikipedia are ALL delitions of content from
my articles. User:Rook wave has posted 41 times to
Wikipedia and every one of these postings removed
content that I wrote. However, Rook wave is not an
administrator, so he went to Howcheng and got him
to blank the page.
_
It was only User:Howcheng who called Randy Bauer
and Louis Blair my "meatpuppets". This is clearly a
personal attack plus User:Howcheng should have
first done an internet search whereby he would
have found that Randy Bauer had run against me
for election." - Sam Sloan (12:48, 4 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"They go to Howcheng because Howcheng is an
admin who knows your history, so it saves time in
investigations. The same happens with me and
certain problem editors. This does not indicate a
personalisation of any dispute other than by you."
- Just zis Guy you know? (09:26, 5 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"It has been pointed out that User:Howcheng had
no prior knowledge of me and deleted the article
and its history after only a few minutes thought
and based on the berlief that my well known
opponents were my 'meatpuppets'. At least three
other administrators had looked at the Tom Dorsch
biography and none had deleted it. I have posted
more than 100 biographies on Wikipedia and this
is the only one that has been deleted. If User:
Howcheng were any sort of man, he would
admit his mistake, reinstate the article and let
somebody else pass on it." - Sam Sloan (11:46,
5 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"If you are unhappy with the deletion decision,
the correct procedure is to take it to a Wikipedia:
Deletion review, as I mentioned above. What is
not an acceptable response is to post personal
attacks against the admin who made that
decision, like your comment above. Regards,"
- MartinRe (12:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC))
_
"Howcheng did not delete it on the basis of
thought or belief in any quantity or nature,
Howcheng deleted it because the AfD ended
in clear consensus for deletion. Which, given
the content, is hardly a surprise." - Just zis
Guy you know? (13:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC))

_
"Keep deleted'. I have read the article, and I
think that Mr. Dorsch's high positions in the
United States Chess Federation might well
be notable (so do not protect against
recreation). But the article contains a number
of unflattering claims about this person, and
there are no sources to back them up. The
Seigenthaler case has shown that we need
to be very cautious with articles on living
people." - Sjakkalle (Check!) (10:50,
9 March 2006 (UTC))

Tom Dorsch deletion endorsed. 23:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
_
*Strongly '''endorse closure''', keep deleted and salt the earth.
- Just zis Guy you know? 09:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
- *'''Keep deleted''' I don't think we need to salt the earth on this
one yet. --Deathphoenix 14:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
- *'''Keep deleted'''. Phr 20:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
- *'''Keep Deleted''' I don't think the "earth should be salted"
MartinRe 13:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
- * '''Endorse closure'''. there is not yet evidence to justify
protection as a deletedpage. Rossami 21:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
- *'''Keep deleted''' Jareth|babelfish 14:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
- *'''Keep deleted''' Zoe 21:48, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
- *''Keep deleted'''. do not protect against recreation Sjakkalle
10:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)