Tom Dorsch Wikipedia Controversy

I posted a biography of Tom Dorsch, the same biography I have posted
here.

Within the last two days, my biography of Dorsch has been
substantially deleted three times, on the ground that it constitutes a
personal attack.

Here is what I have written in response:

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia! Your test worked, and
has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other
tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would
like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thank you!
Sam Sloan 12:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the Tom Dorsch biography, you are simply wrong. If
you will go to the Usenet group rec.games.chess.politics and search
for postings by you will find that he has posted
2680 times to that group. That is two thousand six hundred eighty
times. Tom Dorsch has written and posted extensively on such subjects
as bargirls in Tijuana. There is nothing in my biography of him that
can be considered a personal attack, especially since it is based on
what Dorsch himself wrote. In addition, Dorsch has run for election
and been elected several times to public office in chess. Thus, others
have a right to express their views. Dorsch himself is aware of this
biography can modify it himself if he disagrees. Sam Sloan 12:13, 16
December 2005 (UTC)

I would like the opinions of anybody else on this issue. The Wikipedia
biography of Dorsch is at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Dorsch

but to understand what is going on you have to see the history page at

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history

The two people making deletions do not appear to be chess players and
are not a member of this group. One is a woman who seems to have been
involved in several other editing wars.

Sam Sloan

This "biography" is filled with personal attacks! It is not a very
objective peice of work and filled with speculation. More like a
work of fiction rather than a biography. You should be ashamed, Mr.
Sloan.

- CF

"Sam Sloan" wrote in message ...
| Tom Dorsch Wikipedia Controversy
|
| I posted a biography of Tom Dorsch, the same biography I have posted
| here.
|
| Within the last two days, my biography of Dorsch has been
| substantially deleted three times, on the ground that it constitutes a
| personal attack.
|
| Here is what I have written in response:
|
| Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia! Your test worked, and
| has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other
| tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would
| like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thank you!
| Sam Sloan 12:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
|
| Regarding the Tom Dorsch biography, you are simply wrong. If
| you will go to the Usenet group rec.games.chess.politics and search
| for postings by you will find that he has posted
| 2680 times to that group. That is two thousand six hundred eighty
| times. Tom Dorsch has written and posted extensively on such subjects
| as bargirls in Tijuana. There is nothing in my biography of him that
| can be considered a personal attack, especially since it is based on
| what Dorsch himself wrote. In addition, Dorsch has run for election
| and been elected several times to public office in chess. Thus, others
| have a right to express their views. Dorsch himself is aware of this
| biography can modify it himself if he disagrees. Sam Sloan 12:13, 16
| December 2005 (UTC)
|
| I would like the opinions of anybody else on this issue. The Wikipedia
| biography of Dorsch is at
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Dorsch
|
| but to understand what is going on you have to see the history page at
|
| http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...action=history
|
| The two people making deletions do not appear to be chess players and
| are not a member of this group. One is a woman who seems to have been
| involved in several other editing wars.
|
| Sam Sloan

Sam, you had some stuff about him visiting whorehouses in Tiajuana. I
was ROTFL, but it certainly WAS a personal attack. The bio is much
more objective now. You had me laughing, though.

On 16 Dec 2005 13:22:28 -0800, "Bret Helm" wrote:

Sam, you had some stuff about him visiting whorehouses in Tiajuana. I
was ROTFL, but it certainly WAS a personal attack. The bio is much
more objective now. You had me laughing, though.

You obviously know little or nothing about Tom Dorsch. Why was this a
personal attack? Tom Dorsch has written extensively about whore houses
and girlie bars in Tijuana in 1963, especially about a young virgin
whore named "Charlie the Crab".

We still do not know whether Tom himself gave her that name, or
whether she was generally known by that name.

Here is a quote:

On March 16, 2000, Tom Dorsch wrote:

Always a pleasure to bring a little culture to you. By the way how was
Charlie the crab?

I don't know. I took the cute one, Maria.

Sam went into a dark room alone with
"Charlie the crab." He later told me it
wasn't much, but it was a damn sight better
than Norman T. Whitaker.

Maria was great!

Regards,
Tom Dorsch

Sam Sloan wrote:

Within the last two days, my biography of Dorsch has been
substantially deleted three times,

Sometimes less is more.

The two people making deletions do not appear to be chess players and
are not a member of this group.

On what do you base your pointless guessing? Well, I am the one who did
the first changes - and yes, actually I am a chess player, but this does
not matter anyway, as your article about Mr. Dorsch has only slightly to
do with chess. The other person is indeed no chess player, she's an
administrator which get involved after I sent a mail to Wikipedia about
your article. I was really surprised how fast these people react! And I
admire her patience.

One is a woman who seems to have been
involved in several other editing wars.

Yes, I suppose this happens quite often if you are an administrator of
Wikipedia. It's more or less part of the job.

Greetings,
Ralf

PS: Regarding your conversation in Wikipedia with the administrator: Tom
Dorsch is _not_, I repeat: _not_ one of the most famous chess players in
the world. Do you really think, that people outside the US chess
politics scene or this newsgroups have only the faintest idea who this
man is, or would be interested in any way? Stating, that more people
know him than Topalov is so silly, that it is almost amazing.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:42:25 +0100, Ralf Callenberg
wrote:

Sam Sloan wrote:

Within the last two days, my biography of Dorsch has been
substantially deleted three times,

Sometimes less is more.

The two people making deletions do not appear to be chess players and
are not a member of this group.

On what do you base your pointless guessing? Well, I am the one who did
the first changes - and yes, actually I am a chess player, but this does
not matter anyway, as your article about Mr. Dorsch has only slightly to
do with chess. The other person is indeed no chess player, she's an
administrator which get involved after I sent a mail to Wikipedia about
your article. I was really surprised how fast these people react! And I
admire her patience.

One is a woman who seems to have been
involved in several other editing wars.

Yes, I suppose this happens quite often if you are an administrator of
Wikipedia. It's more or less part of the job.

Greetings,
Ralf

PS: Regarding your conversation in Wikipedia with the administrator: Tom
Dorsch is _not_, I repeat: _not_ one of the most famous chess players in
the world. Do you really think, that people outside the US chess
politics scene or this newsgroups have only the faintest idea who this
man is, or would be interested in any way? Stating, that more people
know him than Topalov is so silly, that it is almost amazing.

I see. So you are "rook wave" and you are ultimately responsible for
ALL of the attacks on my biography of Dorsch both here and on
Wikipedia.

You say that you are a chess player but, funny thing, nobody here has
ever heard of you.

And you are wrong. Tom Dorsch probably is one of the best known chess
personalities in the world. Foir starters every regular reader of this
group has heard of him. And, until Topolov won the tournament in
Argentina a few weeks ago, more people probably had heard of Dorsch
than had heard of Topolov.

More importantly, you are wrong in your assertion that just because
nobody outside of chess would know or care about Tom Dorsch
disqualifies him from having a biography on Wikipedia. Here are the
published criterea by Wikipedia.

Wikipedia:Notability (people)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies)
Jump to: navigation, search
This page is considered a guideline on Wikipedia. It
illustrates standards of conduct, which many editors agree with in
principle. However, it is not policy. Feel free to update the page as
needed, but please use the discussion page to propose any major
changes.
Notability guidelines

Shortcut:
WP:BIO
WP:PROF

Like any encyclopedia, Wikipedia includes biographies of important
historical figures and people involved in current events. Even though
wiki is not paper, there are some criteria which may be considered for
inclusion.

See also Wikipedia:Importance, which attempts to be a generic, all
inclusive definition of criteria for inclusion.


* Has the person made a widely recognized contribution that is
part of the enduring historical record in the specific field?

People still alive

Biographies on the following people may be included in Wikipedia. This
list is not all-inclusive. There are numerous biographies on Wikipedia
on people who do not fall under any of these categories, but there is
no intention to delete them all.

* Political figures holding international, national or
statewide/provincewide office or members of a national, state or
provincial legislature.
* Major local political figures who receive significant press
coverage
* Widely recognized entertainment personalities and opinion makers
* Sportspeople who have played in a fully professional league, or
a competition of equivalent standing in an individual professional
sport, or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including
college sports in the United States. Articles about first team squad
members who have not made a first team appearance may also be
appropriate, but only if the individual is at a club of sufficient
stature that most members of its squad already have articles.
* Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in
well-known films or television productions. Notability can be
determined by:
o Multiple features in popular culture publications such as
Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers
o A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following
o An independent biography
o Name recognition
o Commercial endorsements
* Published authors, editors, and photographers who have written
books with an audience of 5,000 or more or in periodicals with a
circulation of 5,000 or more
* Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in
newsworthy events

[edit]

As can be seen, Tom Dorsch qualifies under several of these criterea.
Incidentally, I was asked by several people to write his biography and
I resisted doing so for a long time. But now that I have done it, I
think that just about everybody here with the exception of yourself
will agree that Tom Dorsch easily meets the standard.

Sam Sloan

What do you expect from me? I'm an asshole. I don't care about Topalov.
I just want to say dumb stupid things so people can keep talking about
me. I need people to pay attention to me.

Sam Sloan

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:42:25 +0100, Ralf Callenberg
wrote:

Stating, that more people
know him than Topalov is so silly, that it is almost amazing.

I just did a Google search. First I searched for Topolov chess. There
were 471 sites using those words.

Then, I searched for Tom Dorsch chess. That returned 682 hits.

Therefore, I have proven that Tom Dorsch is 40% better known than
World Chess Champion Topolov.

Sam Sloan

Sam Sloan wrote:


I just did a Google search. First I searched for Topolov chess. There
were 471 sites using those words.

Man, you are just ignorant. The current FIDE world champion is called
"Topalov", not "Topolov". And if you enter "Veselin Topalov", you get
70000 hits.


Then, I searched for Tom Dorsch chess. That returned 682 hits.

Therefore, I have proven that Tom Dorsch is 40% better known than
World Chess Champion Topolov.


Bull****.

Greetings,
Ralf

"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:42:25 +0100, Ralf Callenberg
wrote:

Stating, that more people
know him than Topalov is so silly, that it is almost amazing.

I just did a Google search. First I searched for Topolov chess. There
were 471 sites using those words.

Then, I searched for Tom Dorsch chess. That returned 682 hits.

Therefore, I have proven that Tom Dorsch is 40% better known than
World Chess Champion Topolov.

On some other business, I just googled Judit Polgar, and received 245,000
references.
while googling I found

286,000 hits on "Capablanca"
1,800,000 on 'Sam Sloan"
131,000 for "Kosteniuk"
11,900,000 for "Tony Miles" ---- NB
3,315,00 for "Nigel Short"
275,000 for "Gary Kasparov"
445,000 for "Garry Kasparov"
2,010,000 for "Kasparov"
296,000 for 'Topalov"
81,500 for "Tom Dorsch"
558,000 for "Phil Innes"

Cordially, Phil Innes

Sam Sloan