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GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 24th 08, 07:59 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,523
Default GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka

Yesterday again GetClub game was improved. Now it will play with
better strategy.

I played a game against Rybka. Rybka took 40 moves to win the Easy
Level. And it was only because of Tactics that Rybka win.

Earlier Rybka used to get a Queen up rill end game comes. But now
Rybka was just a Bishop up when end game came. Later it got the Queen
and win.

Rybka sacrificed its pawn and after 14 ply got a knight extra by
piinning GetClub knight.

It was a wonderful game.

Game Played between sanjay11 and easy at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...245&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (easy)

1. d2-d4{22} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{20} e7-e6{0}
3. Nb1-c3{180} Bf8-b4{0}
4. Qd1-c2{10} d7-d5{0}
5. c4-d5{18} Qd8-d5{24}
6. Ng1-f3{14} Nf6-e4{32}
7. e2-e3{16} b7-b6{32}
8. Bf1-d3{14} f7-f5{40}
9. Ke1-g1{14} Bb4-c3{38}
10. b2-c3{10} Bc8-b7{34}
11. c3-c4{14} Qd5-d6{68}
12. c4-c5{18} b6-c5{34}
13. d4-c5{18} Ne4-c5{20}
14. Bc1-a3{20} Nb8-d7{28}
15. Bd3-b5{18} c7-c6{26}
16. Bb5-e2{28} Ke8-g8{66}
17. Ra1-c1{14} Ra8-d8{30}
18. Ba3-c5{18} Nd7-c5{38}
19. Qc2-c5{12} Qd6-c5{28}
20. Rc1-c5{18} Rd8-d5{22}
21. Rf1-c1{16} Kg8-h8{24}
22. Nf3-g5{12} Rf8-f6{34}
23. Rc5-d5{12} e6-d5{22}
24. Rc1-b1{16} h7-h6{32}
25. Rb1-b7{10} h6-g5{40}
26. Rb7-a7{12} Kh8-h7{24}
27. a2-a4{14} f5-f4{36}
28. a4-a5{10} f4-e3{54}
29. f2-e3{14} Rf6-e6{28}
30. Be2-d3{14} Kh7-h6{26}
31. Ra7-a8{26} g7-g6{40}
32. a5-a6{14} Re6-e7{30}
33. a6-a7{14} Re7-h7{20}
34. Bd3-a6{16} g5-g4{30}
35. Ba6-b7{16} g4-g3{80}
36. h2-g3{14} d5-d4{34}
37. Ra8-b8{12} Rh7-b7{30}
38. Rb8-b7{14} d4-e3{60}
39. Qa7-a8{Q}{14} e3-e2{38}
40. Qa8-f8{14} Kh6-g5{0}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...245&game=Chess


Yes, GetClub made a few tactical mistakes but I think there were no
strategical mistakes. Rybka was having hard time in getting a plus
position.

GetClub developed its pieces and was attacking Rybka having white
pieces.

But through long calculations Rybka sacrificed its pawn and then
pinned the Easy levels knight.

Do you see any mistake in GetClubs game. Please note it is just Easy
Level which played so good. So now Normal & Master Level are going to
play much stronger games.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
Ads
  #2  
Old May 24th 08, 08:52 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
help bot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,552
Default GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka

On May 24, 2:59 am, Sanny wrote:

Yesterday again GetClub game was improved. Now it will play with
better strategy.

I played a game against Rybka. Rybka took 40 moves to win the Easy
Level. And it was only because of Tactics that Rybka win.

Earlier Rybka used to get a Queen up rill end game comes. But now
Rybka was just a Bishop up when end game came. Later it got the Queen
and win.

Rybka sacrificed its pawn and after 14 ply got a knight extra by
piinning GetClub knight.

It was a wonderful game.


View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...245&game=Chess

Yes, GetClub made a few tactical mistakes but I think there were no
strategical mistakes. Rybka was having hard time in getting a plus
position.


In reality, Rybka seems to have considered the
practically forced exchange of Bishop for Knight
(on c3) to be a nice advantage in and of itself.


GetClub developed its pieces and was attacking Rybka having white
pieces.


Not really. The "attack" on the Knight at c3 was
easily defended. Even the hostile takeover of the e4
square came at a very high price: the weakening
move ...p-f5.


But through long calculations Rybka sacrificed its pawn and then
pinned the Easy levels knight.


Do you see any mistake in GetClubs game. Please note it is just Easy
Level which played so good. So now Normal & Master Level are going to
play much stronger games.


The program -- once again -- neglected normal
development, especially castling, in favor of
moving the same pieces over and over, thinking
it was attacking when in reality, the "attack" was
/vacuous/.

Since you seem to believe that lasting for many
moves is a kind of moral victory (been there, done
that!), I would suggest replacing the ...p-d5 idea
with a more Queen's Indian style of defense, in
which Black combines ...p-d6 and ...p-b6 with a
Queen's Bishop fianchetto. The King's Bishop
can simply be developed to e7 and there should
be no difficulties in getting all the pieces out.

Note that it is only natural that a premature
attack by Black is effectively repelled, since
White has the first move.

It is difficult to imagine what sort of handicap
would be appropriate here; if GetClub's Easy
level thinks an average of, say, one minute per
move, then Rybka is likely to overwhelm it by
thinking for only seconds. A more level
contest might be removing Rybka's QR, and
then allowing it to think for just as long as the
GetClub program; this requires tweaking the
contempt factor properly, so Rybka will not
play for a repetition or other draw before a
real contest has ensued.


-- help bot



  #3  
Old May 24th 08, 10:36 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,523
Default GetClub Easy Level vs Rybka


* It is difficult to imagine what sort of handicap
would be appropriate here; ifGetClub'sEasy
level thinks an average of, say, one minute per
move, then Rybka is likely to overwhelm it by
thinking for only seconds. *A more level


GetClub Easy Level thinks for 30 seconds and Rybka was thinking for 8
seconds / move.

Easy Level was thinking 4 times more than Rybka.

I think Rybka at 8 sec/move plays as good as Master Level. which makes
a move in 5 min / move. So Rybka is 40 times Stronger than GetClub
playing Strength.

Rybka thinks in 1 second what GetClub thinks in 40 seconds.

Have a game with Master Level and see if you find the improvement or
not.

Now I think Master Level will play as good game as Advance Level
played yesterday. As today the game performance was increased 3-4
times than it was earlier.

So now Master Level will play the same moves that Advancve level would
play.

And it would be very difficult for you to win the Advance level now as
it will not allow you to form a Pawn Wall as you did in the last game.
However you may score well against the Master Level. So I suggest you
first play with Master Level and if you win the game then play with
Advance Level.

I am very happy to see a game improvement of 3-4 times in a single day
because of your suggestions. Still GetClub needs 40 times improvements
to get equal to Rybka.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


  #4  
Old May 26th 08, 10:01 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,523
Default Game with Help Bot.

Help Bot played with Master level and win the game in 64 moves.

Master Level was white but due to some error do not play the opening
moves. Instead it played Nc3 as the forst move by Calculating. Still
it gave good opposition to Help Bot.

Help Bot 2 days back beat Advance Level but now the game has improved
So It was difficult for him to get a quick win and he has to play till
64 moves to get a win.

GetClub play a much strong game and I hope now Help Bot will play with
Advance Level which will be very difficult for him to win as the game
is much improved now.

Game Played between help bot and master at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...299&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(master) -- (help bot)

1. Nb1-c3{370} d7-d5{10}
2. d2-d4{518} Bc8-f5{18}
3. Bc1-f4{402} e7-e6{16}
4. e2-e3{342} Ng8-f6{18}
5. Bf1-d3{426} Bf5-g6{52}
6. Ng1-f3{722} a7-a6{130}
7. Nf3-e5{502} Bg6-d3{22}
8. Qd1-d3{452} Nb8-d7{46}
9. Ke1-g1{632} Nd7-e5{66}
10. d4-e5{366} Nf6-h5{64}
11. g2-g4{370} Nh5-f4{52}
12. e3-f4{640} h7-h5{32}
13. g4-g5{442} g7-g6{16}
14. Rf1-d1{600} Bf8-e7{126}
15. Ra1-b1{336} Ke8-f8{148}
16. b2-b4{344} b7-b5{64}
17. Rb1-b2{458} Kf8-g7{38}
18. Qd3-d4{644} c7-c6{100}
19. f4-f5{466} g6-f5{86}
20. h2-h4{410} a6-a5{78}
21. a2-a3{392} a5-b4{96}
22. a3-b4{588} Ra8-a6{84}
23. Rb2-b3{440} Qd8-a8{36}
24. Nc3-e2{586} Ra6-a2{72}
25. Qd4-c3{414} Kg7-f8{208}
26. Ne2-d4{474} Ra2-a6{42}
27. Rb3-b1{766} Kf8-e8{30}
28. Rb1-a1{392} Ke8-d7{78}
29. Ra1-a6{392} Qa8-a6{6}
30. Rd1-d3{414} Rh8-c8{92}
31. Qc3-b2{562} Rc8-a8{64}
32. Kg1-h2{352} Qa6-a2{82}
33. Qb2-c1{506} Qa2-a1{86}
34. Qc1-a1{448} Ra8-a1{16}
35. c2-c3{370} Ra1-a3{74}
36. Kh2-g3{550} Be7-d8{176}
37. f2-f3{374} Bd8-c7{60}
38. f3-f4{434} Bc7-b6{46}
39. Nd4-c2{348} Ra3-a2{60}
40. Nc2-e3{410} Bb6-e3{122}
41. Rd3-e3{550} c6-c5{56}
42. b4-c5{666} Kd7-c6{84}
43. Kg3-f3{414} Kc6-c5{38}
44. Re3-d3{742} Kc5-c4{56}
45. Rd3-d1{450} Ra2-a3{66}
46. Rd1-d4{356} Kc4-c3{38}
47. Rd4-d1{486} b5-b4{88}
48. Kf3-e2{682} Ra3-a2{40}
49. Ke2-e3{612} b4-b3{30}
50. Rd1-d3{404} Kc3-c4{82}
51. Rd3-d4{430} Kc4-c5{44}
52. Rd4-d1{380} b3-b2{416}
53. Rd1-b1{400} Kc5-c4{42}
54. g5-g6{444} Kc4-c3{42}
55. g6-g7{424} Ra2-a8{52}
56. Rb1-f1{402} Ra8-g8{20}
57. Ke3-f2{536} Kc3-c2{22}
58. Kf2-f3{430} Qb2-b1{Q}{24}
59. Rf1-b1{342} Kc2-b1{10}
60. Kf3-f2{484} Kb1-c2{26}
61. Kf2-g2{478} d5-d4{78}
62. Kg2-g3{598} d4-d3{92}
63. Kg3-g2{324} d3-d2{12}
64. Kg2-h2{4}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...299&game=Chess

What were the moves by GetClub that were not good and could have been
avoided.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

  #5  
Old May 27th 08, 10:44 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
help bot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,552
Default Game with Help Bot.

On May 26, 5:01 am, Sanny wrote:

Help Bot played with Master level and win the game in 64 moves.

Master Level was white but due to some error do not play the opening
moves. Instead it played Nc3 as the forst move by Calculating. Still
it gave good opposition to Help Bot.

Help Bot 2 days back beat Advance Level but now the game has improved
So It was difficult for him to get a quick win and he has to play till
64 moves to get a win.


Against computers it is not a good idea to play
for a "quick win". In fact, I made no attempt to
try and win *quickly*, apart from my usual dread
of the never-ending battle in which I die of old age
in mid-game.


GetClub play a much strong game and I hope now Help Bot will play with
Advance Level which will be very difficult for him to win as the game
is much improved now.


It is interesting how the program can be "improved"
dramatically so many, many, many, many times.


Game Played between help bot and master at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
master: (White)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...299&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(master) -- (help bot)


View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...299&game=Chess

What were the moves by GetClub that were not good and could have been
avoided.


I ran this through a computer analysis, and if we
ignore the smaller things and try to focus on just
the really big mistakes...

Nothing much happened in the first ten moves,
during which White had a small edge.

Move 11. g4 turned things around, and now
Black got an advantage due to White's exposed
King. The computer did not like my moves--
....g6, ...Kf8, and has it *level* at move 15.

Obviously, p-f5 threw away a pawn, and Black
has the advantage as a result-- unless White
can whip up an attack on the Black King.

Again, the computer rejected my King
maneuver back to the center in favor of sharp
tactics involving the sacrifice of pawns; now
we are back to about even.

Now, I missed a nice, *simple* tactical shot:
28. ... Kd7?? 29. Rxa6 Qxa6 30. Nxf5!, and
White is on top. But instead, the Master level
played 30. Rd3-- missing an obvious tactic.

From that point forward, White gained no
counterattack on the Black King and thus was
doomed to lose. My advantage grew and grew,
until at last it was so large that even when I
failed to see that White had advanced his g-
pawn, it made no real difference! I mistakenly
assumed that White must have moved his
King, since I detected no significant change in
position, but in fact White had played p-g6!

Just as I had expected, in the endgame it is
no-contest; my vastly superior understanding
overwhelmed the program (although I missed
a simple tactical shot earlier!).


-- help bot





  #6  
Old May 27th 08, 01:03 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Martin Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default Game with Help Bot.

help bot wrote:
On May 26, 5:01 am, Sanny wrote:

Help Bot played with Master level and win the game in 64 moves.

Master Level was white but due to some error do not play the opening
moves. Instead it played Nc3 as the forst move by Calculating. Still
it gave good opposition to Help Bot.


Odd that it likes Nc3. Looks suspiciously like it thinks defending the Q
is a benefit of this move (a quirk it shares with an old VAX chess prog)..

Help Bot 2 days back beat Advance Level but now the game has improved
So It was difficult for him to get a quick win and he has to play till
64 moves to get a win.


Against computers it is not a good idea to play
for a "quick win". In fact, I made no attempt to
try and win *quickly*, apart from my usual dread
of the never-ending battle in which I die of old age
in mid-game.


GetClub play a much strong game and I hope now Help Bot will play with
Advance Level which will be very difficult for him to win as the game
is much improved now.


It is interesting how the program can be "improved"
dramatically so many, many, many, many times.


It was not doing to badly though and it might even have had you if it
had spotted either or the *two* viable continuations at move 30.

Now, I missed a nice, *simple* tactical shot:
28. ... Kd7?? 29. Rxa6 Qxa6 30. Nxf5!, and
White is on top. But instead, the Master level
played 30. Rd3-- missing an obvious tactic.


Rd3 isn't just missing an obvious tactic it is miles off the pace. Rd3
ranked 20/35. More than half of all the moves are better! But only two
really stand out. Shredder looked at this position overnight and
confirmed my instinct that Ra1! was the clearest win followed by Nxf5
and with g6 just about holding a draw (nothing else is viable).

Nxf5 is the one I would expect a computer to go for since it gets to
snatch material for free. Needs ony a few plys to find and it would have
put it ahead. Why did the program ignore this obvious move?

Moreover it could also have played the even more aggressive Ra1
attacking blacks Q and claiming the open QR file to break into your side
of the board.

From that point forward, White gained no
counterattack on the Black King and thus was
doomed to lose. My advantage grew and grew,


Indeed it does seem to lose the plot completely in the endgame.

To be fair I think the program has improved. It very nearly had you in
this game (and if it had been properly tactically aware at move 30 it
should have won). That is a big change from slowly but inexorably losing
(which was most often the case in earlier incarnations).

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
  #7  
Old May 27th 08, 06:00 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,523
Default Game with Help Bot.

* Just as I had expected, in the endgame it is
no-contest; my vastly superior understanding
overwhelmed the program (although I missed
a simple tactical shot earlier!).


Yes you play better than Advance Level and Master Level was playing
with the strength of Advance Level. So I think now you should try the
Advance Level as you qualified the Master Level.

Lets see if Advance level can bend you or not.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html



  #8  
Old May 28th 08, 01:00 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Martin Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 598
Default Game with Help Bot.

help bot wrote:
On May 26, 5:01 am, Sanny wrote:

Help Bot played with Master level and win the game in 64 moves.

Master Level was white but due to some error do not play the opening
moves. Instead it played Nc3 as the forst move by Calculating. Still
it gave good opposition to Help Bot.


Odd that it likes Nc3. Looks suspiciously like it thinks defending the
Q is a benefit of this move (a quirk it shares with an old VAX chess
prog)..

Help Bot 2 days back beat Advance Level but now the game has improved
So It was difficult for him to get a quick win and he has to play till
64 moves to get a win.


Against computers it is not a good idea to play
for a "quick win". In fact, I made no attempt to
try and win *quickly*, apart from my usual dread
of the never-ending battle in which I die of old age
in mid-game.


GetClub play a much strong game and I hope now Help Bot will play with
Advance Level which will be very difficult for him to win as the game
is much improved now.


It is interesting how the program can be "improved"
dramatically so many, many, many, many times.


It was not doing to badly though and it might even have had you if it
had spotted either or the *two* viable continuations at move 30.

Now, I missed a nice, *simple* tactical shot:
28. ... Kd7?? 29. Rxa6 Qxa6 30. Nxf5!, and
White is on top. But instead, the Master level
played 30. Rd3-- missing an obvious tactic.


Rd3 isn't just missing an obvious tactic it is miles off the pace. Rd3
ranked 20/35. More than half of all the moves are better! But only two
really stand out. Shredder looked at this position overnight and
confirmed my instinct that Ra1! was the clearest win followed by Nxf5
and with g6 just about holding a draw (nothing else is viable).

Nxf5 is the one I would expect a computer to go for since it gets to
snatch material for free. Needs ony a few plys to find and it would
have put it ahead. Why did the program ignore this obvious move?

Moreover it could also have played the even more aggressive Ra1
attacking blacks Q and claiming the open QR file to break into your
side of the board.

From that point forward, White gained no
counterattack on the Black King and thus was
doomed to lose. My advantage grew and grew,


Indeed it does seem to lose the plot completely in the endgame.

To be fair I think the program has improved. It very nearly had you in
this game (and if it had been properly tactically aware at move 30 it
should have won). That is a big change from slowly but inexorably
losing (which was most often the case in earlier incarnations).

Regards,
Martin Brown

(apologies if this appears twce the first via Teranews vanished into
the ether)
  #9  
Old May 28th 08, 06:23 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,523
Default Game with Help Bot.

To be fair I think the program has improved. It very nearly had you in
this game (and if it had been properly tactically aware at move 30 it
should have won). That is a big change from slowly but inexorably
losing (which was most often the case in earlier incarnations).


Here is another game between Help Bot and Normal Level.

I do not understand why in 18th move Normal Level do not take the Rook
with Bishop instead it took a Pawn?

Game Played between help bot and normal at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
normal: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...335&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(normal) -- (help bot)

1. e2-e4{0} c7-c5{12}
2. Ng1-f3{0} Ng8-f6{8}
3. e4-e5{164} Nf6-d5{10}
4. Nb1-c3{198} Nd5-c3{38}
5. d2-c3{214} g7-g6{62}
6. Bf1-c4{80} Nb8-c6{26}
7. Bc1-f4{84} Bf8-g7{24}
8. Qd1-d3{126} Ke8-g8{28}
9. Ke1-g1{108} a7-a6{78}
10. Rf1-d1{104} b7-b6{126}
11. a2-a3{340} Ra8-a7{90}
12. Ra1-b1{304} Qd8-c7{108}
13. Qd3-e4{172} e7-e6{110}
14. Rd1-d6{136} Nc6-e7{158}
15. Nf3-h4{156} b6-b5{88}
16. Bc4-b3{134} c5-c4{174}
17. Bf4-e3{92} c4-b3{64}
18. c2-b3{84} Ra7-b7{100} {It should have taken the Rook with Bishop.}
19. Rb1-d1{88} Ne7-c6{120}
20. Nh4-f3{86} Nc6-e7{176}
21. g2-g4{110} Rb7-b8{154}
22. Nf3-g5{126} h7-h6{100}
23. Ng5-f3{106} Bc8-b7{42}
24. Qe4-f4{80} Ne7-d5{198}
25. Rd1-d5{110} Bb7-d5{74}
26. Kg1-f1{96} Bd5-f3{198}
27. Qf4-f3{190} Bg7-e5{78}
28. Rd6-a6{112} Be5-g7{80}
29. Be3-f4{108} Qc7-b7{46}
30. Qf3-b7{134} Rb8-b7{10}
31. Bf4-d6{144} Rf8-c8{32}
32. Kf1-g1{158} Kg8-h7{58}
33. Bd6-f4{122} Rc8-c6{38}
34. Ra6-a8{100} f7-f5{48}
35. g4-f5{118} g6-f5{12}
36. Ra8-e8{106} Kh7-g6{62}
37. h2-h3{180} Kg6-f7{20}
38. Re8-d8{158} e6-e5{40}
39. Bf4-e3{142} Bg7-f6{52}
40. Rd8-a8{120} Bf6-g5{54}
41. Kg1-g2{102} f5-f4{22}
42. Ra8-a7{134} f4-e3{76}
43. Ra7-b7{104} e3-e2{28}
44. f2-f4{92} Qe2-e1{Q}{32}
45. f4-g5{146} Rc6-g6{36}
46. Rb7-d7{108} Kf7-e6{10}
47. h3-h4{110} Ke6-d7{14}
48. b3-b4{210} Kd7-e6{34}
49. Kg2-f3{234} Ke6-f5{20}
50. Kf3-g2{16}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
help bot: (Black)
normal: (White)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...335&game=Chess

Why Normal Level took Knight giving its Rook in 24th move?

It looks like Normal Level is doing a lot of calculation mistakes.
What do you think?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
  #10  
Old May 29th 08, 03:30 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
help bot
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Posts: 7,552
Default Game with Help Bot.

On May 28, 8:00 am, Martin Brown
wrote:

Odd that it likes Nc3. Looks suspiciously like it thinks defending the
Q is a benefit of this move (a quirk it shares with an old VAX chess
prog)..


Wait a second there... if you disable the openings
book of many strong chess programs, they too will
"like" 1. Nc3, which is held in somewhat low regard
by theory. I don't think you can leap to conclusions
regarding faulty programming, once you consider
this fact.


It was not doing to badly though and it might even have had you if it
had spotted either or the *two* viable continuations at move 30.

Now, I missed a nice, *simple* tactical shot:
28. ... Kd7?? 29. Rxa6 Qxa6 30. Nxf5!, and
White is on top. But instead, the Master level
played 30. Rd3-- missing an obvious tactic.


Rd3 isn't just missing an obvious tactic it is miles off the pace. Rd3
ranked 20/35. More than half of all the moves are better!


When the pawns are locked up like this, many
moves are not material-losing blunders and so it
is easy to select a sub-optimal one. What I don't
understand is how the Master level could miss a
simple tactical shot; in fact, my only explanation
as to why *I* missed it is the switching back and
forth between different tasks, for it's pretty darned
obvious.

Sanny's program still has serious difficulties with
elementary tactics, even on the higher levels. My
guess is that any of the old tabletop Fidelity Chess
Challenger computers would have spotted this
easily, because they handled tactics correctly.


Moreover it could also have played the even more aggressive Ra1
attacking blacks Q and claiming the open QR file to break into your
side of the board.


In my own computer analysis, the computer
thought *I* should have sacrificed material to
break into the fifth rank with a Rook, targeting
the h4 pawn and the enemy King-- an attack
I never even considered. In fact, I was focused
on the possibility of an attack on my own King
via N-f4 and Q-f3, doubling up on the h5 pawn.


To be fair I think the program has improved. It very nearly had you in
this game (and if it had been properly tactically aware at move 30 it
should have won). That is a big change from slowly but inexorably
losing (which was most often the case in earlier incarnations).


In several earlier games it very nearly had me,
and a couple of those ended up being declared
"wins" for the program, which could make no
headway whatever. In this game I allowed a
bunch of even piece trades, figuring I could win
in the endgame -- even a fairly simple one -- due
to the programming laws which invariably
surface and are then declared "fixed" by Sanny
the next day or so. I have confidence that such
problems are not really fixed at all, and that
they in fact are what maked me the superior
chess player overall. :D


-- help bot
 




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