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Chess Plagiarism???



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 30th 03, 12:18 AM
Matt Nemmers
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Default Chess Plagiarism???

"drummerman" wrote in message
om...
Is there such a concept as chess plagiarism? I was going over some
games in John Walker's, Chess: Attacking the King, book. The game on
page 123 titled "Storming the Castled Position with Pawns" looked
familiar. The game is a Benoni-Indian from Kotov-Bastrikov 1954.
Walker doesn't mention the source of the game, leading the reader to
surmise that he constructed the game for educational purposes. As a
consequence, I would assumne that the other games in the book are also
unreferenced master games. Literarily, this would be called plagiarism
and I would get fired from the NYTimes or the Washington Post. Is
there such a concept in chess?


I don't think so. Chess *games* can't be copyrighted. Plus, it's very
possible that two players could play the exact same game as two people did
years ago (or yesterday, for that matter) without even realizing it.

When writing a book, it's always a good idea to give credit where credit is
due, but if you're unfamiliar with a game and construct a position for
educational purposes and it turns out to have been played between Kasbaritov
and Molitov at Wiijk Aaavrt Zeeort in 1950, I would hardly call it
plagiarism.

Of course, if you don't recognize the source of a game and write a book
containing a position from it, be prepared to be blasted by Edward Winter on
www.chesscafe.com!

Regards,

Matt


  #2  
Old July 30th 03, 01:03 AM
Justin Sané
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Default Chess Plagiarism???

With all the chess game databases that are available,
is it not possible for an author to check fairly quickly
whether or not a certain position has occurred in
past GM games, or national championships, etc.?
It would then be an easy one-liner to state that
positions included were checked against
Database ABC, Edition ##. That way one is protected
to some extent from being suspected of plagiarism.

And, yes, I am aware of the theoretical estimates of
the number of possible chess games.

Justin

"Matt Nemmers" wrote in message news:[email protected]
| "drummerman" wrote in message
| om...
| Is there such a concept as chess plagiarism? I was going over some
| games in John Walker's, Chess: Attacking the King, book. The game on
| page 123 titled "Storming the Castled Position with Pawns" looked
| familiar. The game is a Benoni-Indian from Kotov-Bastrikov 1954.
| Walker doesn't mention the source of the game, leading the reader to
| surmise that he constructed the game for educational purposes. As a
| consequence, I would assumne that the other games in the book are also
| unreferenced master games. Literarily, this would be called plagiarism
| and I would get fired from the NYTimes or the Washington Post. Is
| there such a concept in chess?
|
| I don't think so. Chess *games* can't be copyrighted. Plus, it's very
| possible that two players could play the exact same game as two people did
| years ago (or yesterday, for that matter) without even realizing it.
|
| When writing a book, it's always a good idea to give credit where credit is
| due, but if you're unfamiliar with a game and construct a position for
| educational purposes and it turns out to have been played between Kasbaritov
| and Molitov at Wiijk Aaavrt Zeeort in 1950, I would hardly call it
| plagiarism.
|
| Of course, if you don't recognize the source of a game and write a book
| containing a position from it, be prepared to be blasted by Edward Winter on
| www.chesscafe.com!
|
| Regards,
|
| Matt
|
|


  #3  
Old July 30th 03, 04:37 AM
Matt Nemmers
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Posts: n/a
Default Chess Plagiarism???

"Justin Sané" wrote in message
...
With all the chess game databases that are available,
is it not possible for an author to check fairly quickly
whether or not a certain position has occurred in
past GM games, or national championships, etc.?
It would then be an easy one-liner to state that
positions included were checked against
Database ABC, Edition ##. That way one is protected
to some extent from being suspected of plagiarism.

And, yes, I am aware of the theoretical estimates of
the number of possible chess games.

Justin


Let me ask you this, Justin, just to satisfy my own curiosity....

I'm webmaster for a couple chess-related organizations. Say I played a
game, thought it pretty decent, and decided to post it on the websites I
manage as a "Game of the Month" for the whole world to see. You happen to
be surfing the net one day and stumble across my game. You discover you
played these same *exact* moves in a tournament you entered last year AND
posted it on YOUR website as well. Would you say I plagiarized you? What
if later we both discover that our game was played in some off-the-wall
tournament in the 19th century and printed in a book? Would you say we both
plagiarized them?

Even with databases, it's still very possible to overlook a game already
played. When the moves are really truly your own, do you even bother
looking to see if they've been played before? I don't.

Not quibbling, by the way. Just making my point.

Regards,

Matt


  #4  
Old July 30th 03, 06:49 AM
Justin Sané
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Posts: n/a
Default Chess Plagiarism???

I do understand what you are saying.

Could multiple individuals play original games
that reproduce famous, infamous, or
previously unpublished games? Yes.

Could one of these people publish their game?
Yes

Could the other person publish her/his game?
Yes

Could someone accuse the second person of
plagiarism? Yes.

Was it plagiarism? No.

If I were to write a book (with commercial
intent assumed), or make a document
available to the public ( via subscription or
not) I would force myself to check that
a result/idea had not been previously
published. If there was a prior record, I
would include a statement that while the
result being discussed was arrived at
independently, that others had arrived at the
same result in YYYY year, and their discussion
was published in JJJJ journal's ## edition.

This may not be enough in any legal sense
to protect one from plagiarism accusations.
However, it would serve to clear my
conscience.

That is all from me on this subject.

Justin


  #5  
Old July 30th 03, 02:30 PM
Doctor SBD
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Default Chess Plagiarism???

A tidy sum? Although I may not be remembering the story correctly, I think
Donaldson got something like $300. That seems reasonable, but by no means a
"tidy sum".

SBD
 




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