A Chess forum. ChessBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ChessBanter forum » Chess Newsgroups » rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Need help identifying/analysing two (simple ?) pawn endgames.


« test | Kingsindian »

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 20th 03, 08:48 PM
Dan Wulff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Need help identifying/analysing two (simple ?) pawn endgames.

Hi!

I have come across two positions, which are claimed to be wins for white,
however I cannot seem to find any way to win the positions.

Also I have no idea where they came from, only a sort of code suggesting
that they are part of a test suite or some other collection.

Here are the games, in FEN/EPD notation:

8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2PP4/4K3/8 w - - bm Ke3; id "CE 3103";
8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2P5/3PK3/8 w - - bm Kf2; id "CE 3104";

If anybody can tell me how the winning line looks, if it truly exists, I
would be very happy. Also I would like to know if anyone knows where the
positions came from.

I have tried computer analysis on the positions, but it seems like a draw is
the only thing the programmes can come up with.

Any help would be appreciated.

--
Greetings

Dan Wulff
(The Gandalf Team)


  #2  
Old August 20th 03, 09:21 PM
Dieter Buerssner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Need help identifying/analysing two (simple ?) pawn endgames.

Dan Wulff wrote:

I have come across two positions, which are claimed to be wins for
white, however I cannot seem to find any way to win the positions.

Also I have no idea where they came from, only a sort of code
suggesting that they are part of a test suite or some other
collection.


Hi Dan, it was claimed, they are studies by Grigoriev (sp?)

Here are the games, in FEN/EPD notation:

8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2PP4/4K3/8 w - - bm Ke3; id "CE 3103";


Yace shows a mate in 37 (with the help of some backward analysis, but it
only took few minutes):

239 0.192 Mat37 26. 1.Ke3 Kd5 2.Kd2 Ke5 3.Kc2 b5 4.Kb3 Kd5 5.d4 b6
6.Kb4 Kc6 7.Ka3 Kd6 8.Kb2 Kd5 9.Kb3 Kd6 10.Kc2
Kc6 11.Kd2 Kd6 12.Ke3 Kd5 13.Kd3 Kd6 14.Ke4 Ke6
15.d5+ Kd6 16.Kd4 Kd7 17.Ke5 Ke7 18.d6+ Ke8
19.Ke4 Kd8 20.Kd4 Ke8 21.Ke5 Kf7 22.Kd5 Ke8
23.Kc6 Kd8 24.Kxb6 {EGTB} 24...Kd7! 25.Kc5! Kd8
26.Kc6! Ke8! 27.d7+ Ke7! 28.Kc7! b4 29.d8=Q+
Ke6! 30.Qd6+ Kf5! 31.Qxb4! Kg5 32.Kd6! Kh5
33.Qe4 Kh6 34.Qg4 Kh7 35.Ke6 Kh8 36.Kf6 Kh7
37.Qg7#! {1081}

Note, that only after 47! plies, there is the entry to TBs.
I can give other lines after alternative black moves.

8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2P5/3PK3/8 w - - bm Kf2; id "CE 3104";


And here after Kf2 Kc4 it cannot find anything (draw score after a very
deep think).

Cheers,
Dieter
  #3  
Old August 20th 03, 09:40 PM
Mikael Kastell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Need help identifying/analysing two (simple ?) pawn endgames.


"Dan Wulff" skrev i meddelandet
k...
Hi!

I have come across two positions, which are claimed to be wins for white,
however I cannot seem to find any way to win the positions.

Also I have no idea where they came from, only a sort of code suggesting
that they are part of a test suite or some other collection.

Here are the games, in FEN/EPD notation:

8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2PP4/4K3/8 w - - bm Ke3; id "CE 3103";



The winning line

1. Ke3 Kd5 (1. ... b5 is losing) 2. Kd2 b5 3. Kc2 Kc5 4. Kb3 b6
5. d4 Kd5 6. Kb4 Kc6 (Now White must get his King to d3 when
the black king is on d5 and in the same time not allowing the black King
to reach c4.) 7.Ka3 Kd6 8. Kb2 Kd5 9.Kb3 Kd6 10.Kc2 Kd5 11. Kd3

From here on it should be pretty straightforward.
This is not a complete analysis but hopefully you get the idea.



  #4  
Old August 21st 03, 03:30 AM
Odd Gunnar Malin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Need help identifying/analysing two (simple ?) pawn endgames.


"Dieter Buerssner" skrev i melding
. t-online.de...
Dan Wulff wrote:

I have come across two positions, which are claimed to be wins for
white, however I cannot seem to find any way to win the positions.

Also I have no idea where they came from, only a sort of code
suggesting that they are part of a test suite or some other
collection.


Hi Dan, it was claimed, they are studies by Grigoriev (sp?)

Here are the games, in FEN/EPD notation:

8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2PP4/4K3/8 w - - bm Ke3; id "CE 3103";



Yes this is in Averbach's book on pawn-endgame.
(J.Awerbach - Bauerendspiele, p.178, N.Grigorjew, 1934)

Here is Averbach's solution:

1.Ke3 Kd5 ( 1...b5 2.Ke4 b4 3.d4+ ) 2.Kd2 {!} b5 3.Kc2 Kc5
( 3...b4 4.cxb4 Kd4 5.Kd2 b6 6.Kc2 Ke3 7.Kc3 b5 8.Kc2 Kf4 9.Kb2
( 9.Kb3 ) ) 4.Kb3 b6 5.d4+ Kd5 6.Kb4 Kc6 7.Ka3 {!}
( 7.d5+ {?} Kxd5 8.Kxb5 Ke4 {!} ) Kd6 8.Kb2 Kd5 9.Kb3 Kd6
{!} 10.Kc2 Ke6 11.Kd2 {!} Kd6 12.Ke3 Kd5 13.Kd3 Kd6 14.Ke4 Ke6
15.d5+ Kd6 16.Kd4 Kd7 17.Ke5 Ke7 18.d6+ Ke8 {!} 19.Kd4
( 19.Ke6 {?} Kd8 20.d7 b4 21.cxb4 b5 $10 ) Kd8 20.Ke4 Ke8 21.Ke5
Kd8 22.Ke6 Ke8 23.d7+ Kd8 24.Kd6

Yace shows a mate in 37 (with the help of some backward analysis, but it
only took few minutes):

239 0.192 Mat37 26. 1.Ke3 Kd5 2.Kd2 Ke5 3.Kc2 b5 4.Kb3 Kd5 5.d4 b6
6.Kb4 Kc6 7.Ka3 Kd6 8.Kb2 Kd5 9.Kb3 Kd6 10.Kc2
Kc6 11.Kd2 Kd6 12.Ke3 Kd5 13.Kd3 Kd6 14.Ke4 Ke6
15.d5+ Kd6 16.Kd4 Kd7 17.Ke5 Ke7 18.d6+ Ke8
19.Ke4 Kd8 20.Kd4 Ke8 21.Ke5 Kf7 22.Kd5 Ke8
23.Kc6 Kd8 24.Kxb6 {EGTB} 24...Kd7! 25.Kc5! Kd8
26.Kc6! Ke8! 27.d7+ Ke7! 28.Kc7! b4 29.d8=Q+
Ke6! 30.Qd6+ Kf5! 31.Qxb4! Kg5 32.Kd6! Kh5
33.Qe4 Kh6 34.Qg4 Kh7 35.Ke6 Kh8 36.Kf6 Kh7
37.Qg7#! {1081}

Note, that only after 47! plies, there is the entry to TBs.
I can give other lines after alternative black moves.

8/1p6/1p6/2k5/8/2P5/3PK3/8 w - - bm Kf2; id "CE 3104";



With black king on a6 this could have been the next diagram in Averbach's
book, end in draw.

Odd Gunnar

And here after Kf2 Kc4 it cannot find anything (draw score after a very
deep think).

Cheers,
Dieter



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2017 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.