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avoiding trading when down in points



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 17th 14, 07:34 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
Jules W.
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Posts: 3
Default avoiding trading when down in points

Say I'm down by 2 to 5 points. The general consensus seems to be that it is bad for me to trade in this situation. Should I run all around the board avoiding trades looking for the perfect opening, or is there more to this. Perhaps someone can suggest a book to study about this.

  #2  
Old June 17th 14, 09:44 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
Martin Brown
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Posts: 1,015
Default avoiding trading when down in points

On 17/06/2014 19:34, Jules W. wrote:
Say I'm down by 2 to 5 points. The general consensus seems to be that it is bad for me to trade in this situation. Should I run all around the board avoiding trades looking for the perfect opening, or is there more to this. Perhaps someone can suggest a book to study about this.


In serious match play you have probably already lost unless you got some
serious counterplay initiative for the material sacrifice.

It is generally a good idea to swap off and simplify as much as possible
when you are ahead because the less total material there is on board the
more your fixed material advantage counts in your favour.

The converse of this is that if you are down on material you should be
aiming to keep the position complex and not trade pieces unless forced
to do so. You are hoping that your opponent will make a mistake.

And it doesn't matter how much material you are behind by if you can
still deliver checkmate whilst the opponent is taking your queen.

Keeping queens and rooks on the board is usually a good idea if you are
materially behind (as is swapping them off if you are ahead).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #3  
Old June 17th 14, 11:11 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
Andy Walker[_2_]
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Posts: 116
Default avoiding trading when down in points

On 17/06/14 19:34, Jules W. wrote:
Say I'm down by 2 to 5 points. The general consensus seems to be
that it is bad for me to trade in this situation.


In addition to what Martin says, this is a chess-specific
example of a more general game-theoretic concept, namely that of
variance reduction. If you are winning, then you want to reduce
the variance [randomness] of the position, even if this involves
returning some of your advantage, so as to increase the chance that
you will be able to turn your advantage into a win. Conversely, if
you are losing, then you want to increase the variance [even if this
involves handing your opponent a bigger advantage], on the grounds
that the more random/complex/difficult the position, the bigger the
chance that the opponent will go wrong. "Trading" is one way to
reduce, in typical positions, the variance, so it is, broadly, good
for the player who is notionally winning, bad for the player who is
notionally losing.

As with all chess "rules", there are few, if any, absolutes.
Chess is not played by rote.

Should I run all
around the board avoiding trades


No.

looking for the perfect opening,


If you're losing. there is no "perfect opening". At best,
there may be ways of setting your opponent problems that s/he is
unable to solve. This is more likely if there are still lots of
pieces on the board, less likely if the position is simple.

or
is there more to this. Perhaps someone can suggest a book to study
about this.


There used to be a Fred Reinfeld book "How to Win when you're
Ahead", which had a companion whose title I forget, but it finished
with "... when you're Behind". Amazon and Bookfinder don't seem to
know anything about it. Caution: Reinfeld's books are not uniformly
excellent. But I once watched a small boy losing in short order in a
simultaneous display against the local champion, and it turned out that
he'd been sitting on a pile of books in order to raise himself enough
to see the board properly; the pile included the above two books and
also "How to Win Quickly". Perhaps he hadn't read them.

Broadly, if you're at the stage where you need to ask the
above, then more important than studying books is to get yourself
to your nearest chess club and play, play and play again. Study
books when you know enough about chess to know what you're studying.
When you do start studying, learning about tactics is Numero Uno,
followed by basic endgames, followed by middlegame strategy. Leave
openings until you've reached the degree of experience where they
matter. Playing real, live opponents face-to-face is much better
than playing against the computer.

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
  #4  
Old June 27th 14, 11:56 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
Jules W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default avoiding trading when down in points

On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:11:21 PM UTC-6, Andy Walker wrote:
On 17/06/14 19:34, Jules W. wrote:

Say I'm down by 2 to 5 points. The general consensus seems to be


that it is bad for me to trade in this situation.


Broadly, if you're at the stage where you need to ask the

above, then more important than studying books is to get yourself

to your nearest chess club and play, play and play again.


I play on gameknot.com and usually have about 50 games going.
  #5  
Old June 29th 14, 11:20 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis
Martin Brown
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Posts: 1,015
Default avoiding trading when down in points

On 27/06/2014 11:56, Jules W. wrote:
On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 4:11:21 PM UTC-6, Andy Walker wrote:
On 17/06/14 19:34, Jules W. wrote:

Say I'm down by 2 to 5 points. The general consensus seems to be


that it is bad for me to trade in this situation.


Broadly, if you're at the stage where you need to ask the

above, then more important than studying books is to get yourself

to your nearest chess club and play, play and play again.


I play on gameknot.com and usually have about 50 games going.


You don't give us any idea of your playing strength or rating.

You may well be confusing quantity with quality. You can learn a lot
from every defeat by analysing it afterwards with a decent engine.

Fritz X is the cheapest at present (just 5 on Amazon)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/chessbase-Fr...C7NG K3RD98RJ

If you want to train specific themes or techniques then any of the
various apps that do puzzles or training would be appropriate. I am
quite impressed with iChess free on Android as a portable set of puzzles
even though its puzzles don't always allow perfectly valid alternative
lines to the actual match play solution.

From the question you have asked Total Chess Training would be far too
advanced but TASC2 Chess Training might well be about right:

http://www.chesshouse.com/TASC_Chess...ess_p/a216.htm

It covers all the basics and set plays that you must know to progress.

You might have to run it in an XP virtual environment. I have never
tried it on any more recent OS. It might work it might not. The CD
hasn't been updated in donkey's years but is still a very good intro.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #6  
Old October 16th 16, 03:18 AM
Radrook Radrook is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by ChessBanter: Oct 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Walker[_2_] View Post
On 17/06/14 19:34, Jules W. wrote:
Say I'm down by 2 to 5 points. The general consensus seems to be
that it is bad for me to trade in this situation.


In addition to what Martin says, this is a chess-specific
example of a more general game-theoretic concept, namely that of
variance reduction. If you are winning, then you want to reduce
the variance [randomness] of the position, even if this involves
returning some of your advantage, so as to increase the chance that
you will be able to turn your advantage into a win. Conversely, if
you are losing, then you want to increase the variance [even if this
involves handing your opponent a bigger advantage], on the grounds
that the more random/complex/difficult the position, the bigger the
chance that the opponent will go wrong. "Trading" is one way to
reduce, in typical positions, the variance, so it is, broadly, good
for the player who is notionally winning, bad for the player who is
notionally losing.

As with all chess "rules", there are few, if any, absolutes.
Chess is not played by rote.

Should I run all
around the board avoiding trades


No.

looking for the perfect opening,


If you're losing. there is no "perfect opening". At best,
there may be ways of setting your opponent problems that s/he is
unable to solve. This is more likely if there are still lots of
pieces on the board, less likely if the position is simple.

or
is there more to this. Perhaps someone can suggest a book to study
about this.


There used to be a Fred Reinfeld book "How to Win when you're
Ahead", which had a companion whose title I forget, but it finished
with "... when you're Behind". Amazon and Bookfinder don't seem to
know anything about it. Caution: Reinfeld's books are not uniformly
excellent. But I once watched a small boy losing in short order in a
simultaneous display against the local champion, and it turned out that
he'd been sitting on a pile of books in order to raise himself enough
to see the board properly; the pile included the above two books and
also "How to Win Quickly". Perhaps he hadn't read them.

Broadly, if you're at the stage where you need to ask the
above, then more important than studying books is to get yourself
to your nearest chess club and play, play and play again. Study
books when you know enough about chess to know what you're studying.
When you do start studying, learning about tactics is Numero Uno,
followed by basic endgames, followed by middlegame strategy. Leave
openings until you've reached the degree of experience where they
matter. Playing real, live opponents face-to-face is much better
than playing against the computer.

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.

Sometimes playing a computer is better.
If the opponents are too weak you won't have to delve too deeply into a position since decisive combinations will be handed to you on a silver platter by the mindless moves your opponent makes. Some persons play chess virtually without thinking. A computer makes you work to both avoid getting caught by tactical surprise and to work in finding tactical motifs in positions where they aren't staring you in the face. So human opponents can only improve your game if they can play as competitively as computers of respectable strength play.

Something similar happens in boxing. For example, we have boxers who enter the ring with undefeated records they have attained against pushovers. Their boxing skills have never really been tested. They have become sloppy in execution. Careless in defense. Overconfident in a nonexistent skill. Such boxers are immediately exposed when they suddenly encounter someone who really knows how to box. So all that supposedly beneficial practice did more harm than good.

Gee! I am really surprised idiot hasn't popped up and moronically proclaimed all this as total BS as done on my other response on another thread.

Last edited by Radrook : October 17th 16 at 03:36 PM.
 




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