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Chest Solving Limitations?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 4th 03, 05:39 PM
Anders Thulin
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?



David Hodson wrote:
Does anyone know the problem solving limitations of Chest?

I always thought it pretty infallible until I found a Mate in 18 which
defeated it.


WHat is the problem? Are you sure it indeed is as you describe it:
an eighteen-mover?

--
Anders Thulin http://www.algonet.se/~ath

  #2  
Old August 4th 03, 09:41 PM
fhub
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?

"David Hodson" wrote in message ...
Does anyone know the problem solving limitations of Chest?

I always thought it pretty infallible until I found a Mate in 18 which
defeated it.

DH


The theoretical limit is ´mate in 30´, but of course the solving time
would be a practical limit.

Would be nice to post this ´mate in 18´ position (FEN) here, to be able
to test (and prove) it.

Franz.
  #3  
Old August 4th 03, 10:38 PM
David Hodson
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?

Here it is:

k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - -

And here's the solution:

1. f3 exf3 2. Kf1 f2 3. e4 dxe4 4. Kxf2 e3+ 5. Ke1 e2 6. d5 cxd5
7.Kxe2 d4 8. Kd2 d3 9. c6 bxc6 10. Kxd3 Kb7 11. Kc4 Ka8 12. Kc5 Kb7
13.Kd6 c5 14. a8=Q+ Kxa8 15. Kc7 c4 16. b7+ Ka7 17. b8=Q+ Ka6 18. Qb6#

Regards,

David Hodson


"fhub" wrote in message
m...
Would be nice to post this ´mate in 18´ position (FEN) here, to be able
to test (and prove) it.

Franz.























  #4  
Old August 4th 03, 11:07 PM
Joost de Heer
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?

k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - -

And here's the solution:


1. f3 exf3 2. Kf1 f2 3. e4 dxe4 4. Kxf2 e3+ 5. Ke1 e2 6. d5 cxd5 7.Kxe2
d4 8. Kd2 d3 9. c6 bxc6 10. Kxd3 Kb7 11. Kc4 Ka8 12. Kc5 Kb7 13.Kd6 c5
14. a8=Q+ Kxa8 15. Kc7 c4 16. b7+ Ka7 17. b8=Q+ Ka6 18. Qb6#


I've put the position after 9. .. bxc6 in Popeye, and it can't find a #9. There
is a #10 though:

k7/P7/1Pp5/8/8/3p4/3K4/8
#10

1. Kxd3 Kb7 2. Kd4 Ka8 3. Kc5 Kb7 4. a8=Q+ Kxa8 5. Kxc6 Kb8 6. b7 Ka7 7.
Kc7 Ka6 8. b8=Q Ka5 9. Qb3 Ka6 10. Qa4#

Joost
--
Du hast mein Herz zerrissen, meine Seele geraubt
Das es so enden würde hätt` ich nie geglaubt [Aus der Ruinen -]
Ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste, hast Du meine Welt zerstört [L'Âme Immortelle]
Eine Welt, die vor kurzem nur uns beiden hat gehört
  #5  
Old August 5th 03, 05:21 AM
Michael Byrne
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?

"David Hodson" wrote in message ...
Here it is:

k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - -

And here's the solution:

1. f3 exf3 2. Kf1 f2 3. e4 dxe4 4. Kxf2 e3+ 5. Ke1 e2 6. d5 cxd5
7.Kxe2 d4 8. Kd2 d3 9. c6 bxc6 10. Kxd3 Kb7 11. Kc4 Ka8 12. Kc5 Kb7
13.Kd6 c5 14. a8=Q+ Kxa8 15. Kc7 c4 16. b7+ Ka7 17. b8=Q+ Ka6 18. Qb6#

Regards,

David Hodson


"fhub" wrote in message
m...
Would be nice to post this ´mate in 18´ position (FEN) here, to be able
to test (and prove) it.

Franz.

no that is notthe solution ...

[Event "Blitz:10'"]
[Site "Secane, PA USA"]
[Date "2003.08.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "39"]
[TimeControl "600"]

after 13. Kd6 best move for black Kxb6 and that extends to mate in 20.

13 Kd6 Kxb6 14. a8=Q Kb5 15. Qxc6+ Kb4 16. Qc2 Ka3 17. Kd5 Kb4 18.
Qb2+ Ka4 19. Kc4 Ka5 20. Qb5# 1-0

solution is as follows (posted by Dieter on CCC):

Mat19 1.f4 exf3 2.Kf1 f2 3.e4 dxe4 4.Kxf2 e3+
5.Ke1
e2 6.d5 cxd5 7.Kxe2 d4 8.Kd2 d3 9.c6
bxc6
10.Kxd3 {EGTB} 10...Kb7! 11.Kd4 Ka8!
12.Kc5!
Kb7 13.a8=Q+ Kxa8 14.Kxc6!! Kb8 15.b7!!
Ka7
16.Kc7!! Ka6 17.b8=Q! Ka5 18.Qb3! Ka6
19.Qb6#

Chest confirms it is a mate in 19 and not 18.
  #6  
Old August 5th 03, 09:45 AM
fhub
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?

"David Hodson" wrote in message ...
Here it is:

k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - -

And here's the solution:

1. f3 exf3 2. Kf1 f2 3. e4 dxe4 4. Kxf2 e3+ 5. Ke1 e2 6. d5 cxd5
7.Kxe2 d4 8. Kd2 d3 9. c6 bxc6 10. Kxd3 Kb7 11. Kc4 Ka8 12. Kc5 Kb7
13.Kd6 c5 14. a8=Q+ Kxa8 15. Kc7 c4 16. b7+ Ka7 17. b8=Q+ Ka6 18. Qb6#

Regards,

David Hodson

Hi David,

this is actually only a Mate in 19 (not in 18):

ChestUCI Ver.2.6 UCI:

CPU: Celeron 400MHz
FEN: k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - -
Search for Mate in 20 ... (Hash=64MB)
Mate in 19 found ! (2 Solutions in 01:42)
T19 01:43 M19 f3 exf3 Kf1 f2 e4 dxe4 Kxf2 e3 Ke1 e2 d5 cxd5 Kxe2 d4 Kd2 d3
c6 bxc6 Kxd3 Kb7 Kd4 Ka8 Kc5 Kb7 a8D Kxa8 Kxc6 Kb8 b7 Ka7
Kc7 Ka6 b8D Ka5 Db3 Ka6 Da4
T19 01:43 M19 f4 .... same as above!

I´ve tested YOUR given pv, and it´s not correct starting with move 13 -
neither optimal for white nor for black.
After 13.Kd5 it´s a Mate in -7 (i.e. would be a Mate in 20 in total!):

T7 00:03 -M7 Kxb6 a8D Kb5 Dxc6 Kb4 Dc2 Ka3 Dd2 Ka4 Db2 Ka5 Kc5 Ka4 Da2

Best regards,
Franz.
  #7  
Old August 5th 03, 10:53 AM
David Hodson
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Default Chest Solving Limitations?

Many thanks for helpful and interesting replies.

I hasten to add that the problem is not mine, but comes from
http://www.forthnet.gr/chess/matein18.html

Perhaps Mr Manolis Stratakis would be also interested in this!

David Hodson



"fhub" wrote in message
m...

this is actually only a Mate in 19 (not in 18):

ChestUCI Ver.2.6 UCI:

CPU: Celeron 400MHz
FEN: k7/Pp6/1Pp5/2Pp4/3Pp3/4P3/5P2/6K1 w - -
Search for Mate in 20 ... (Hash=64MB)
Mate in 19 found ! (2 Solutions in 01:42)
T19 01:43 M19 f3 exf3 Kf1 f2 e4 dxe4 Kxf2 e3 Ke1 e2 d5 cxd5 Kxe2 d4 Kd2

d3
c6 bxc6 Kxd3 Kb7 Kd4 Ka8 Kc5 Kb7 a8D Kxa8 Kxc6 Kb8 b7 Ka7
Kc7 Ka6 b8D Ka5 Db3 Ka6 Da4
T19 01:43 M19 f4 .... same as above!

I´ve tested YOUR given pv, and it´s not correct starting with move 13 -
neither optimal for white nor for black.
After 13.Kd5 it´s a Mate in -7 (i.e. would be a Mate in 20 in total!):

T7 00:03 -M7 Kxb6 a8D Kb5 Dxc6 Kb4 Dc2 Ka3 Dd2 Ka4 Db2 Ka5 Kc5 Ka4 Da2

Best regards,
Franz.





 




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