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Correspondence chess & computer programs



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 16th 03, 02:44 PM
(BernardZ
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs

Has anyone here tried to use them and what sort of issues did it bring
up.





  #2  
Old August 16th 03, 07:56 PM
JaxCastle
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs

(BernardZ wrote in message ws.com...
Has anyone here tried to use them and what sort of issues did it bring
up.



I'm not sure what your question is. Only databases and books are
allowed in most correspondence chess. Computer programs like Fritz and
Crafty arent allowed. Why would you want to use one of those?
  #3  
Old August 16th 03, 11:15 PM
Fight Cancer
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs

On 16 Aug 2003 10:56:26 -0700, (JaxCastle) wrote:

(BernardZ wrote in message ws.com...
Has anyone here tried to use them and what sort of issues did it bring
up.


While not a strong enough player to know what "issues" it brought up,
I can say that it brought up a lot of W's (wins) for my PC using Frtiz
7. This wasn't league play though, and most games didn't even
actually finish.

For more info, consider this link.

http://www.dfki.de/~busemann/cc-computers.html


I'm not sure what your question is. Only databases and books are
allowed in most correspondence chess. Computer programs like Fritz and
Crafty arent allowed. Why would you want to use one of those?


From my limited reading, it appears that most US CC organizations ban
PC's. For example, I've read that the APCT, CCLA, ASPCC, NOST and
USCF prohibit the use of computers to analyze positions. However,
that does not mean ALL orgs prohibit PC's. Obviously, the US is not
the only place where CC is played. Specifically, the ICCF and the
Transcendental Chess orgs do not specifically ban the unlimited use of
PC's for CC.

Regardless, it would be VERY hard to prove that your CC opponent is
using a PC.

Many people argue, Kasparov included, that the best chess analysis
comes from PC-aided scrutiny. Not the PC doing ALL the
analysis--no--but using the PC to do blunder checks and sort through
wildly complex positions. I'm sure Kasparov uses it much more
creatively, but those are 2 simple exampeles. So that's why some
people would want to use chess engines in their CC analysis.

Fight cancer with your computer!
http://members.cox.net/fightcancer/
  #5  
Old August 17th 03, 10:11 PM
[email protected]
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:12:00 GMT, BernardZ
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Regardless, it would be VERY hard to prove that your CC opponent is
using a PC.


For this reason several CC clubs do not mention computers in the rules.
As well as that most CC players will use computer for storing the game
while playing.


ICCF does not prohibit the use of computers since it is a rule
that is not enforcable. Some people simply use computer to generate a
move and send it as his/her own move. One can win even correspondence
titles with that method, but what good is it for? You just satisfy
your ego, do not learn more about the game as one would if hours were
spent on a move.

The funny part is that you could have a player that has a
rating lower than 2000, but a correspondence rating that would be
around 2300 or higher.

I cannot see why it should be worse then a CC player asking his friend
for advice.


That is forbidden by every correspondence chess organization.
  #6  
Old August 18th 03, 08:34 PM
Andras Galos
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs

BernardZ wrote:
Has anyone here tried to use them and what sort of issues did

it bring
up.


There is another way to use the computer during CC games, which
is not prohibited.
You can use several programs that display the graphical boards
and help taking your moves by drag and dropping pieces, and
checking the validity of moves.
Most of them create and send the email message to the opponent
with the PGN text.
Most of them also gather incoming messages and update the
running games with the incoming moves.
And most of them have other features such as time keeping, etc.

Some of them can call chess engines to analize the setup and
advice moves. So here players have a stronger temptation to play
unfair, but fair players play always fair.

See more for example he
http://www.enpassant.dk/chess/softeng.htm#KSKAK

Regards,
Andras Galos


  #7  
Old August 18th 03, 09:39 PM
CeeBee
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs

EMOVE wrote in rec.games.chess.computer:


ICCF does not prohibit the use of computers since it is a rule
that is not enforcable. Some people simply use computer to generate a
move and send it as his/her own move. One can win even correspondence
titles with that method, but what good is it for? You just satisfy
your ego, do not learn more about the game as one would if hours were
spent on a move.



People often point at satisfying your ego, which is indeed a reward in
itself and point out that you learn nothing from it. But it's not an
argument to have doubts about computer assistance. Maybe the opponent
doesn't want to learn. He just wants to have a good time behind his or her
computer. And that's where in my opinion the problem pops up.

Basically someone generating moves or someone using a chess engine to check
for tactical mistakes (advanced chess) is playing a _different_ game. It's
not wrong in itself to play a different game, but when the opponent didn't
choose for a different game, it is.

Personally I think that has more weight than convincing people not to
generate moves because they learn nothing from it.

Chess is a game between two people with set rules. If one of the two
players separates from those rules, it's simply unfair to the other, who
didn't agree with the new rules.

If your opponent has no problem with advanced chess or with a move
generator, the rules are changed by mutual consent. In that case one side
chooses to use his or her brains, and the other to use his desktop PC, and
both are having a good time.



--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


Google CeeBee @
www.geocities.com/ceebee_2

  #10  
Old August 24th 03, 02:06 AM
Jerry Snitselaar
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Default Correspondence chess & computer programs


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:12:00 GMT, BernardZ
wrote:

ICCF does not prohibit the use of computers since it is a rule
that is not enforcable. Some people simply use computer to generate a
move and send it as his/her own move. One can win even correspondence
titles with that method, but what good is it for? You just satisfy
your ego, do not learn more about the game as one would if hours were
spent on a move.

The funny part is that you could have a player that has a
rating lower than 2000, but a correspondence rating that would be
around 2300 or higher.


In addition once you get past a certain level you probably wont be very
successful using this method. Look up the the correspondence chess message
board. There is usually an argument taking place about the use of analysis
engines in correspondence play.

http://www.correspondencechess.com/bbs/


 




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