Microsoft, Adobe and Macromedia are using it now. Can Chessbase be far
behind? I'm talking about activation technology on software products.
Currently Chessbase hasn't implemented this...and to my great relief
still hasn't done this. But I'm not very hopeful. Chessbase has become a
very powerful chess software company and only time will tell if they
ever decide to take this route. If they do...it's goodbye to buying any
Chessbase product for me. I will not purchase a Chessbase product that
requires activation. I'll stick to Winboard, Scid or Arena or Chess
Assistant (if Convekta doesn't try it also) instead.

I totally disagree. With Activation vs CD protection, I as a consumer
of the product can do many more things...

I can install the product over the Internet. To my ultraportable that
has no CD. Rather than depend on the graces of those that provide
NOCD hacks.

With activation, chessbase can create products that have varying
amount of functionality. Including preview versions that operate for
some period of time for free. They can create different levels of the
same product depending upon the needs of the user. For instance, they
can segregate off Auto-play, Playchess.com, Infinite Analysis,
Analyize a certain fixed number of games, database functionality,
etc... Maybe I would like to not pay for what I don't use... Maybe as
a good customer, I can get 5 engines for the price of 3... Man, the
possibilities of providing me a product that satisfies my needs at a
price that would make me break out the wallet. Whoo boy, hold me
back.

You can create a system of some fixed number of installs that would
allow you to easily install on a few machines (ala the Apple DRM
model).

With Activation schemes such as those from Microsoft, and Adobe, all
you have to do is to provide evidence that you are you, to reinstall
on different or changed machines.

I can be up and running the same day with activation!

Not to say all activation schemes are good (the turbo-tax model, IOW
the Macromedia model blew chunks), but in general I find that
Activation schemes are much more desireable than CD-refueling schemes.
Activation schemes are more easily updateable, as they become "broken"
by the folks that are just not really "customers.".

And it also provides better incentive for those that make free
products. By making the products both more useful, and more
difficult to pirate, this provides incentive for the free software
crowd as they will get more used. Everyone wins. Chessbase retains a
larger portion of the audience that is willing to pay (but may not
because free is just as easy), The free software market gets a larger
audience of people that are interested in their product because the
pay ones are not available. The free products improve providing
impetus for the pay products to be "worth" the money. Consumers win
in general.


I have a real tough time understanding the downside.

For a real world example. I use the Agent Newsreader. I have since
before it was a pay product (6-7 years?). It has product activation.
I have moved from platform to platform, and am even using it right now
on a virtual PC platform as my new laptop is a Mac (my first
personally owned Apple platform since 1982). Product activation has
NEVER gotten in the way (They have a great scheme, where the product
runs in full mode for 2 weeks when installed on a new machine. Which
means that they can be "slow" about reactivating my product, two days,
and I never missed a beat). The company has retained their customer.
And oh yeah, with product activation, I would be able to run chessbase
programs on my mac (granted not as fast as a native program), and
there is a small likelihood that any sort of CD re-fueling scheme
would work, as those are usually based on some sort of mal-formed CD.

So you go ahead and move to Arena... It is a good program. I am still
waiting for chessbase to move to activation, as I have not a program
from them since Fritz 6, because CD re-fueling is a drag, and I just
like to get my software NOW. CD's go bad, they get lost, sometimes
you don't have a CD player, and I have access to the Internet, let me
use it.

Cheers



On 29 Nov 2003 18:39:08 -0600, Alberich
wrote:

Microsoft, Adobe and Macromedia are using it now. Can Chessbase be far
behind? I'm talking about activation technology on software products.
Currently Chessbase hasn't implemented this...and to my great relief
still hasn't done this. But I'm not very hopeful. Chessbase has become a
very powerful chess software company and only time will tell if they
ever decide to take this route. If they do...it's goodbye to buying any
Chessbase product for me. I will not purchase a Chessbase product that
requires activation. I'll stick to Winboard, Scid or Arena or Chess
Assistant (if Convekta doesn't try it also) instead.

I agree with Alberich. It would be a nightmare for chess players. I've
worried about this possibility for awhile, but will await its implementation
(if ever) to consider alternative measures. I have some reasonable hopes
that the FREE chess software available to us will catch up with (or surpass)
the commercial chess software eventually, so we won't have to buy anything
anymore. If you like to shell out money for stuff, fine, but I work hard for
my money and prefer to spend as little of it as possible! But there's a
sucker born every minute, as a famous circus promoter once remarked.
--
Euc1id

"Fortknight" wrote in message
...
I totally disagree. With Activation vs CD protection, I as a consumer
of the product can do many more things...

I can install the product over the Internet. To my ultraportable that
has no CD. Rather than depend on the graces of those that provide
NOCD hacks.

With activation, chessbase can create products that have varying
amount of functionality. Including preview versions that operate for
some period of time for free. They can create different levels of the
same product depending upon the needs of the user. For instance, they
can segregate off Auto-play, Playchess.com, Infinite Analysis,
Analyize a certain fixed number of games, database functionality,
etc... Maybe I would like to not pay for what I don't use... Maybe as
a good customer, I can get 5 engines for the price of 3... Man, the
possibilities of providing me a product that satisfies my needs at a
price that would make me break out the wallet. Whoo boy, hold me
back.

You can create a system of some fixed number of installs that would
allow you to easily install on a few machines (ala the Apple DRM
model).

With Activation schemes such as those from Microsoft, and Adobe, all
you have to do is to provide evidence that you are you, to reinstall
on different or changed machines.

I can be up and running the same day with activation!

Not to say all activation schemes are good (the turbo-tax model, IOW
the Macromedia model blew chunks), but in general I find that
Activation schemes are much more desireable than CD-refueling schemes.
Activation schemes are more easily updateable, as they become "broken"
by the folks that are just not really "customers.".

And it also provides better incentive for those that make free
products. By making the products both more useful, and more
difficult to pirate, this provides incentive for the free software
crowd as they will get more used. Everyone wins. Chessbase retains a
larger portion of the audience that is willing to pay (but may not
because free is just as easy), The free software market gets a larger
audience of people that are interested in their product because the
pay ones are not available. The free products improve providing
impetus for the pay products to be "worth" the money. Consumers win
in general.


I have a real tough time understanding the downside.

For a real world example. I use the Agent Newsreader. I have since
before it was a pay product (6-7 years?). It has product activation.
I have moved from platform to platform, and am even using it right now
on a virtual PC platform as my new laptop is a Mac (my first
personally owned Apple platform since 1982). Product activation has
NEVER gotten in the way (They have a great scheme, where the product
runs in full mode for 2 weeks when installed on a new machine. Which
means that they can be "slow" about reactivating my product, two days,
and I never missed a beat). The company has retained their customer.
And oh yeah, with product activation, I would be able to run chessbase
programs on my mac (granted not as fast as a native program), and
there is a small likelihood that any sort of CD re-fueling scheme
would work, as those are usually based on some sort of mal-formed CD.

So you go ahead and move to Arena... It is a good program. I am still
waiting for chessbase to move to activation, as I have not a program
from them since Fritz 6, because CD re-fueling is a drag, and I just
like to get my software NOW. CD's go bad, they get lost, sometimes
you don't have a CD player, and I have access to the Internet, let me
use it.

Cheers



On 29 Nov 2003 18:39:08 -0600, Alberich
wrote:

Microsoft, Adobe and Macromedia are using it now. Can Chessbase be far
behind? I'm talking about activation technology on software products.
Currently Chessbase hasn't implemented this...and to my great relief
still hasn't done this. But I'm not very hopeful. Chessbase has become a
very powerful chess software company and only time will tell if they
ever decide to take this route. If they do...it's goodbye to buying any
Chessbase product for me. I will not purchase a Chessbase product that
requires activation. I'll stick to Winboard, Scid or Arena or Chess
Assistant (if Convekta doesn't try it also) instead.

Just to make this perfectly clear...
"You work hard for your money" so you would rather steal from those
that are offering the product, and if you don't steal from them you
are a sucker, and if they make it harder to steal, "it is a nightmare
for chessplayers."

I hope I never have to meet you in person... That is the most morally
bankrupt argument I have ever heard. If I knew you, I would make it
harder to work for your money.

Cheers


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:00:32 GMT, "Euc1id" wrote:

I agree with Alberich. It would be a nightmare for chess players. I've
worried about this possibility for awhile, but will await its implementation
(if ever) to consider alternative measures. I have some reasonable hopes
that the FREE chess software available to us will catch up with (or surpass)
the commercial chess software eventually, so we won't have to buy anything
anymore. If you like to shell out money for stuff, fine, but I work hard for
my money and prefer to spend as little of it as possible! But there's a
sucker born every minute, as a famous circus promoter once remarked.
--
Euc1id

You're an idiot and your response was completely unjustified.
Nowhere does he advocate stealing from anybody. He merely hopes that the
"free" chess engines catch up to the commercial ones. How does that equate
to stealing.

Why don't you put your rampant testosterone back in your pants where it
belongs!



I hate product activation for two reasons:
1. If the company goes bankrupt, I can never use the program, that I paid my
hard earned money for, on any other system. If my system breaks, tough luck!
Do you think that is fair or right?
2. If I buy the software, I should be able to install it on any machine I
own. Laptop and desktop. I cant with product activation. How would you like
to buy a music CD and only be able to ever play it on the first CD you try
it on?

Richard




"Fortknight" wrote in message
...
Just to make this perfectly clear...
"You work hard for your money" so you would rather steal from those
that are offering the product, and if you don't steal from them you
are a sucker, and if they make it harder to steal, "it is a nightmare
for chessplayers."

I hope I never have to meet you in person... That is the most morally
bankrupt argument I have ever heard. If I knew you, I would make it
harder to work for your money.

Cheers


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:00:32 GMT, "Euc1id" wrote:

I agree with Alberich. It would be a nightmare for chess players. I've
worried about this possibility for awhile, but will await its
implementation
(if ever) to consider alternative measures. I have some reasonable hopes
that the FREE chess software available to us will catch up with (or
surpass)
the commercial chess software eventually, so we won't have to buy
anything
anymore. If you like to shell out money for stuff, fine, but I work hard
for
my money and prefer to spend as little of it as possible! But there's a
sucker born every minute, as a famous circus promoter once remarked.
--
Euc1id

Ok, did you read what he wrote??? Hmmm....

What do you think: "If you like to shell out money for stuff, fine,
but I work hard for my money and prefer to spend as little of it as
possible! But there's a sucker born every minute, as a famous circus
promoter once remarked." means?? It's ok, I am an idiot, and cannot
possibly have parsed that sentence correctly... And my conclusions
based on *his* post were completely unjustified...

But to discuss your points.
I have never had a piece of software that I paid for that did not
become obsolescent, and remained useful, where the company has gone
bankrupt and I was no longer able to run the software on a new
machine. Activation or not. I am sure that there must be a case or
two where this has happened, but in all practicality that is not
really a worry.

But in a case where the system breaks or you want to run it on another
system and you can't would I find that unreasonable. Yes. But I
have also found that with those companies that are not bankrupt (all
that I have experienced, will assist me in getting that same piece of
software to run on my new system no money asked.

Point 2, I also agree. And gee product activation has not prevented
me from doing that either, at least for products that I have
purchased. I have been able to install that software on machines that
I control, and I use for my personal use.

So in all *practicality* I have never run into any of the two issues
that you have described. I would probably not buy software that did
not allow me to do the things that you describe, and people can make
that choice too.

Rather, product activation actually provides me as a consumer greater
ability to try software to see if I like it before buying. It allows
me to buy the amount of functionality that I need. It allows the
company to capture a larger set of "customers."

And it provides a point of competition for free software. If it
becomes more difficult for non-customers to use software that they
highly desire, then there is greater impetus to create functionally
useful "free" software. The more competent the "free" software the
greater competition it provides to "for pay" software. This form of
competition is good for the consumer, who will get better software at
whatever the price point. Linux, openoffice, gimp, mozilla, arena,
crafty, winboard, scid and others are great examples of this. We all
win. Companies are rewarded for first class functionality by being
better able to capture their customer base, users of all ilk benefit
from better and greater functionality from the free software, This is
all good.





On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:44:12 GMT, "rlsuth" wrote:

You're an idiot and your response was completely unjustified.
Nowhere does he advocate stealing from anybody. He merely hopes that the
"free" chess engines catch up to the commercial ones. How does that equate
to stealing.

Why don't you put your rampant testosterone back in your pants where it
belongs!



I hate product activation for two reasons:
1. If the company goes bankrupt, I can never use the program, that I paid my
hard earned money for, on any other system. If my system breaks, tough luck!
Do you think that is fair or right?
2. If I buy the software, I should be able to install it on any machine I
own. Laptop and desktop. I cant with product activation. How would you like
to buy a music CD and only be able to ever play it on the first CD you try
it on?

Richard




"Fortknight" wrote in message
.. .
Just to make this perfectly clear...
"You work hard for your money" so you would rather steal from those
that are offering the product, and if you don't steal from them you
are a sucker, and if they make it harder to steal, "it is a nightmare
for chessplayers."

I hope I never have to meet you in person... That is the most morally
bankrupt argument I have ever heard. If I knew you, I would make it
harder to work for your money.

Cheers


On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:00:32 GMT, "Euc1id" wrote:

I agree with Alberich. It would be a nightmare for chess players. I've
worried about this possibility for awhile, but will await its
implementation
(if ever) to consider alternative measures. I have some reasonable hopes
that the FREE chess software available to us will catch up with (or
surpass)
the commercial chess software eventually, so we won't have to buy
anything
anymore. If you like to shell out money for stuff, fine, but I work hard
for
my money and prefer to spend as little of it as possible! But there's a
sucker born every minute, as a famous circus promoter once remarked.
--
Euc1id