k i was curious and still am lol , so started to play games with alot
of different engines , have to say my comp is not that fast and each
engine uses 32mb ram hash , so maybe that makes a difference not sure
, but i found out that for example fritz 6 doesn't seem that strong
cause it lost a game against arasan 5.4 all games are played with
settings 40 moves in 120 mins 750mHz /32mb ram / windows ME , no
endgame tablebases used

also i see alot of sites saying that ruffian is like sooooooo strong
and yes it has a great depth search , but doesn't seem that strong
though , cause comet won against ruffian , on average ruffian had
depth 18 and comet maybe 12/13 , but comet kicked his butt lol , it
was totally equal till move 42 and then ruffian messed up big time ,
made an error , had fritz analyse it and fritz found the right move
already at depth 10 and ruffian had depth 18 and still couldn't find
it and it did a very bad move , i mean there were maybe 4 or 4 moves
that were better and that would at least keep it a draw at end so i am
not sure what is up with everyone saying that ruffian is so strong lol
, looks pretty weak to me

gnuchess 4 and 5 are not bad , but wouldn't recommend them to learn
from though lol ,they still mess up too much , too many average or
bad moves


the baron is great at opening and early midgame , but after that it is
terrible , i played a game with it and it was like so far ahead
against another engine and then it almost messed it up completely ,
lucky that it was that far ahead and that even with all the bad moves
it still won lol

another good freeware program is rebel 3.0 (decade) , great program !!
and free

ok i have no idea why anyone would want to buy a commercial program ,
i mean yeah they might have some extra features and better graphics ,
but you can dl so many free database programs and some have good
graphics too , just use some good engines with them and you don't need
commercial ones at all ,

cause the ones they use in tourneys are not what you get when you buy
them , no matter what they say , you get a weaker version , and you
need a very fast comp i think to really see a difference between the
best commercial ones and engines like comet , crafty , arasan and so
on

also a few other free engines that seem pretty good , further testing
is required , but they seem promising are slowchess , danchess ,
postmodernist !! played a great game against greenlightchess 3.0 ( yes
the one that had 6/11 on the worldchampionship and is also a freeware
program !!)


just want to point out that you don't need deep fritz 8 to analyse a
game lol , crafty , comet , arasan and some others can do it too , and
if you not sure , use a second program or use several of them , they
do give good solutions !!

besides deep fritz 8 messes up alot too lol , i saw kasparov vs deep
fritz , uhm ok that was disappointing from both of them , last game
deep fritz messed up soo many times, omg i really think that kasparov
didn't want to win lol

i think it is time for ibm to remake deeper blue lol and to give kaspy
some real competition !!! and to show that deep fritz is nothing more
then a fake

i mean has anyone tried deep fritz on his comp against crafty and some
other good freeware ones ??

also the WC for computers was so dang fake , i mean common they set it
up for programs like fritz and schredder the perfect settings for them
lol and there was no competition for schredder and fritz , where are
the other good ones , rebel , virtua chess( 2nd on the WC a few years
ago and with 2 mb ram on my old very slow comp it is still very good
so i am sure on a fast comp it would give fritz a real run for it's
money lol ) , genius ?? chessmaster 9000 ? and why not let some
freewares play too like crafty , arasan and such ,they afraid that
they might actually beat some of the commercial ones lol

oh and one more thing about some arena chess program , ok only played
one game with sos3 but it seems the same as with ruffian , great depth
, but not alot of knowledge it did some very bad move on move 18 and
lost game because of it against chinito3.25

well feel free to respond especially if you have fritz 8 and do get
good results against free engines in longer games , i just think that
most tests between fritz and freeware or other programs are fake and
are set up in such a way that fritz and schredder can't lose

btw remember the game kaspy vs topalov a few months ago , lol so funny
fritz didn't see the solution either when kaspy sacrificed the rook .

I firmly believe that Rebel 12 (DOS) is perhaps one of the best
engines free or not that there is. Try it here.. Be sure to click
on the little arrow to see tons of games, info, and history on
Rebel. On my Celeron old 400, it rates itself as 2611.
http://members.home.nl/matador/chess810.htm

Now here is another very fun program, and its Java based
so depending on your computer, you'll get a very good game.
Just go right to the link and it will load right up to enjoy.
It seems to play right around 2100 to 2150 on my old 400 Cel.
Here is Jester from the fine folks at Ludochess.
http://www.ludochess.com/jester_eng/jester_eng.php3

~enjoy
===========================



"kristof" wrote in message
om...
k i was curious and still am lol , so started to play games with alot
of different engines , have to say my comp is not that fast and each
engine uses 32mb ram hash , so maybe that makes a difference not sure
, but i found out that for example fritz 6 doesn't seem that strong
cause it lost a game against arasan 5.4 all games are played with
settings 40 moves in 120 mins 750mHz /32mb ram / windows ME , no
endgame tablebases used

also i see alot of sites saying that ruffian is like sooooooo strong
and yes it has a great depth search , but doesn't seem that strong
though , cause comet won against ruffian , on average ruffian had
depth 18 and comet maybe 12/13 , but comet kicked his butt lol , it
was totally equal till move 42 and then ruffian messed up big time ,
made an error , had fritz analyse it and fritz found the right move
already at depth 10 and ruffian had depth 18 and still couldn't find
it and it did a very bad move , i mean there were maybe 4 or 4 moves
that were better and that would at least keep it a draw at end so i am
not sure what is up with everyone saying that ruffian is so strong lol
, looks pretty weak to me

gnuchess 4 and 5 are not bad , but wouldn't recommend them to learn
from though lol ,they still mess up too much , too many average or
bad moves


the baron is great at opening and early midgame , but after that it is
terrible , i played a game with it and it was like so far ahead
against another engine and then it almost messed it up completely ,
lucky that it was that far ahead and that even with all the bad moves
it still won lol

another good freeware program is rebel 3.0 (decade) , great program !!
and free

ok i have no idea why anyone would want to buy a commercial program ,
i mean yeah they might have some extra features and better graphics ,
but you can dl so many free database programs and some have good
graphics too , just use some good engines with them and you don't need
commercial ones at all ,

cause the ones they use in tourneys are not what you get when you buy
them , no matter what they say , you get a weaker version , and you
need a very fast comp i think to really see a difference between the
best commercial ones and engines like comet , crafty , arasan and so
on

also a few other free engines that seem pretty good , further testing
is required , but they seem promising are slowchess , danchess ,
postmodernist !! played a great game against greenlightchess 3.0 ( yes
the one that had 6/11 on the worldchampionship and is also a freeware
program !!)


just want to point out that you don't need deep fritz 8 to analyse a
game lol , crafty , comet , arasan and some others can do it too , and
if you not sure , use a second program or use several of them , they
do give good solutions !!

besides deep fritz 8 messes up alot too lol , i saw kasparov vs deep
fritz , uhm ok that was disappointing from both of them , last game
deep fritz messed up soo many times, omg i really think that kasparov
didn't want to win lol

i think it is time for ibm to remake deeper blue lol and to give kaspy
some real competition !!! and to show that deep fritz is nothing more
then a fake

i mean has anyone tried deep fritz on his comp against crafty and some
other good freeware ones ??

also the WC for computers was so dang fake , i mean common they set it
up for programs like fritz and schredder the perfect settings for them
lol and there was no competition for schredder and fritz , where are
the other good ones , rebel , virtua chess( 2nd on the WC a few years
ago and with 2 mb ram on my old very slow comp it is still very good
so i am sure on a fast comp it would give fritz a real run for it's
money lol ) , genius ?? chessmaster 9000 ? and why not let some
freewares play too like crafty , arasan and such ,they afraid that
they might actually beat some of the commercial ones lol

oh and one more thing about some arena chess program , ok only played
one game with sos3 but it seems the same as with ruffian , great depth
, but not alot of knowledge it did some very bad move on move 18 and
lost game because of it against chinito3.25

well feel free to respond especially if you have fritz 8 and do get
good results against free engines in longer games , i just think that
most tests between fritz and freeware or other programs are fake and
are set up in such a way that fritz and schredder can't lose

btw remember the game kaspy vs topalov a few months ago , lol so funny
fritz didn't see the solution either when kaspy sacrificed the rook .