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37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 12th 04, 01:20 AM
Gregory Topov
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

The following sequence of moves is from Kasparov's loss with black in Game 2
of the 1997 Rematch with Deep Blue:
36. axb5 axb5 37.Be4!
Because it gains material, both Kasparov and the world expected Deep Blue to
play 36. Qb6 or 37. Qb6. Surprisingly, Deep Blue rejected material gain
for positional advantage just as a human grandmaster would, by playing 36.
axb5 axb5 37.Be4! Be4 stunned Kasparov. This was the key turning point in
the whole match, and was perhaps why Kasparov resigned in a drawn position
at the end of this game, and his resulting psychological state was perhaps
why he lost the deciding game 6.

My question is: Do modern chess engines match Deep Blue's analysis of this
position? What do Deep Fritz, Deep Junior, or Shredder suggest white to
play for move 36 or move 37? Perhaps this is the litmus test for whether or
not Deep Blue is or is not their superior? Does any other chess engine
suggest the human-like moves chosen by Deep Blue?

Perhaps some work has already been done on this point. If not, take this as
an invitation, gentleman, to start your engines, and let's see what they
come up with! Here's the PGN:

[Event "IBM Kasparov vs. Deep Blue Rematch"]
[Site "New York, NY USA"]
[Date "1997.05.04"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Deep Blue"]
[Black "Kasparov, Garry"]
[Opening "Ruy Lopez: closed, Smyslov defense"]
[ECO "C93"]
[Result "1-0"]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6
8.c3 O-O 9.h3 h6 10.d4 Re8 11.Nbd2 Bf8 12.Nf1 Bd7 13.Ng3 Na5 14.Bc2 c5
15.b3 Nc6 16.d5 Ne7 17.Be3 Ng6 18.Qd2 Nh7 19.a4 Nh4 20.Nxh4 Qxh4
21.Qe2 Qd8 22.b4 Qc7 23.Rec1 c4 24.Ra3 Rec8 25.Rca1 Qd8 26.f4 Nf6
27.fxe5 dxe5 28.Qf1 Ne8 29.Qf2 Nd6 30.Bb6 Qe8 31.R3a2 Be7 32.Bc5 Bf8
33.Nf5 Bxf5 34.exf5 f6 35.Bxd6 Bxd6 36.axb5 axb5 37.Be4 Rxa2
38.Qxa2 Qd7 39.Qa7 Rc7 40.Qb6 Rb7 41.Ra8+ Kf7 42.Qa6 Qc7 43.Qc6 Qb6+
44.Kf1 Rb8 45.Ra6 1-0

Some commentary follows below (based on Wolff's analysis in "Complete
Idiot's Guide to Chess").

--
Gregory Topov
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - Marshall McLuhan

The critical games in the 1997 Kasparov-DeepBlue Rematch were Kasparov's
losses in game 2 and game 6. Kasparov won game 1 in fine style. In a
complicated position, the computer made a poor evaluation dictated by
materialism, and saw a chance to attack white with 28...f5 29. exf5 e4. But
Kasparov realized he could afford to sacrifice material by playing 30.f4!
Bxe2 fxg5. Although black has a material advantage, his king is exposed,
and Kasparov exploited this advantage mercilessly to win the game.

In game 2, Kasparov counted on the computer's evaluation to be determined by
material rather than position, and invited Deep Blue to play 36. Qb6 which
would attack black's bishop and queenside pawns, and lead to a material
advantage. Kasparov had prepared a clever response involving two sacrificed
pawns 36...Qe7! 37. axb5 Rab8! 38. Qxa6 e4! Although black is down two
pawns, he gets a lot of counterplay on the dark squares. Kasparov was
counting on the computer making the classic mistake of trading a large and
safe positional advantage for a murky material advantage. Surprisingly,
Deep Blue rejected material gain for positional advantage just as a human
grandmaster would, by playing 36. axb5 axb5 37.Be4! The crowd gasped and
Kasparov's face fell. Psychologically it was something he was not prepared
for, and he even indirectly accused IBM of cheating by somehow over-riding
the computer from capturing the pawns. Eight moves later he resigned, in a
position which later proved to be a draw.

Kasparov didn't recover from this psychological blow. After three more
draws, in the deciding game 6, Kasparov made the same mistake, playing a
dubious opening strategy with a line known to be strong for white because of
a piece sacrifice. Perhaps Kasparov again believed that the computer
wouldn't make the sacrifice because of material considerations. But Deep
Blue simply followed its opening database, sacrificing the piece, and
leaving Kasparov with a terrible position. He was unemotionally unable to
play it, and Deep Blue won easily with Kasparov resigning after move 19.


  #2  
Old January 12th 04, 08:05 AM
Gian-Carlo Pascutto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

My question is: Do modern chess engines match Deep Blue's analysis of this
position? What do Deep Fritz, Deep Junior, or Shredder suggest white to
play for move 36 or move 37? Perhaps this is the litmus test for whether

or
not Deep Blue is or is not their superior? Does any other chess engine
suggest the human-like moves chosen by Deep Blue?


I believe there are several ones that find it. I know for sure
Deep Sjeng does

--
GCP


  #3  
Old January 12th 04, 08:16 AM
Simon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" wrote in message
...
My question is: Do modern chess engines match Deep Blue's analysis of

this
position? What do Deep Fritz, Deep Junior, or Shredder suggest white to
play for move 36 or move 37? Perhaps this is the litmus test for

whether
or
not Deep Blue is or is not their superior? Does any other chess engine
suggest the human-like moves chosen by Deep Blue?


I believe there are several ones that find it. I know for sure
Deep Sjeng does

--
GCP



Hi Gian-Carlo,

I tried DS 1.5 on my AMD 2200+ with a 512Mb hash table, and @ 15 ply was
still considering Qb6. Is this a new version you have created or
perhaps I didn't give it enough time??

All the best

Simon


  #4  
Old January 12th 04, 02:57 PM
Gian-Carlo Pascutto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

I tried DS 1.5 on my AMD 2200+ with a 512Mb hash table, and @ 15 ply was
still considering Qb6. Is this a new version you have created or
perhaps I didn't give it enough time??


I dug the original email up, from a user:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
we can say that with todays hardware, todays programs wont play
36.axb5 axb5 37.Be4 in tournament time control. there are several programs
that
will play these three moves if given enough time, for example, Deep Sjeng
1.5 in
8 hours.

Kasparov thought that any program would play 36.Qb6 and go after the pawns.
Kasparov thought that there was human GM interference during the game, and
that
no program would play 37.Be4 to block blacks pawn advance to e4.
Kasparov said these were strictly human moves.

I am a big fan of game two also. there are many other Deep Blue positions
that
are interesting.

Deep Blue
Game 2
looking for 36.axb5 axb5 with a follow up in same line of Deep Blue move
36.Be4

[D] r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Deep Sjeng 1.5

00:00:00.0 0.14 3 916 axb5 axb5 Ra7 e4
00:00:00.0 0.18 3 1389 Qb6 Rd8 Rd1
00:00:00.1 0.43 4 2428 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 bxa4
00:00:00.1 0.65 5 4298 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6
00:00:00.1 1.05 6 10991 Qb6
00:00:00.2 1.23 6 18084 Qb6 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5
00:00:00.4 1.63 7 63906 Qb6
00:00:00.5 1.70 7 103168 Qb6 Qf8 axb5 Rcb8 Qc6 Rxb5 Qxc4 Rc8
00:00:00.9 1.76 8 205205 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Qxb5 Ra5 Qxa6
00:00:01.5 1.87 9 434730 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+ Kh2
Qxc3 Bd1 Qd3 Qd8+
00:00:02.1 1.58 10 675737 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+
Kh2
Qxc3 Bb1 Qe1 Bc2 Kh7
00:00:06.7 1.66 11 2778737 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5 Rd1 Rc8 Qa7
Rb7
Qe3 Re8
00:00:14.1 1.82 12 7356866 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe2
00:00:29.3 1.85 13 17633035 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe1 Rbc8 Rb1 Rc7 Rxc7
00:00:58.0 1.86 14 37368960 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Rc7
Rb2 Rb8 Kh2 Re8 b5 Rb7 Kg1
00:02:36.3 1.92 15 101930093 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Rd7 Rb1 Qd8 Qa6
Re7
Kh2 Rec7 b5 Qd7 b6 Rb7
00:05:13.5 1.81 16 202236169 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Kh7 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8
Qxd6
Qa1+ Kh2 Qc1 g3 Qxc3 Qc7 Qxb4 d6 Qd2+ Bg2 c3
00:15:57.3 1.41 17 615522425 Qb6
00:24:10.7 1.38 17 906419035 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Re2 Qe5 Ra5
Qh2+
Kf1 Qf4+ Bf3 Qc1+ Kf2 Rxe2+ Bxe2 Qf4+
00:52:02.1 1.14 18 1923827531 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Kf1 Ra8
Qxa8
Qxe4 Qa4 Qd3+ Kg1 Qe3+ Rf2 Bg3 Qc2 Bxf2+ Qxf2 Qxc3 Rd1 Qxb4 b6 c3 d6
01:50:37.7 0.74 19 -268693714 Qb6
04:44:48.6 0.25 19 1581270505 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qe3 axb5 Be4 Qd8 Qa7 Bc7 Kh1
Rb6
Ra6 Rcb8 Rxb6 Rxb6 g3 Bd6
05:04:07.5 0.61 19 -1989327933 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 g3 Kf7 Kg2 Ke7 Kf3 Ba7 Ke4 Kd7 a6 Ke7
05:30:25.7 0.61 20 -949424887 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 Kf2 Kf7 Kf3 Ke7 g4 Ba7 a6
08:21:20.9 0.31 21 1080918576 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rab8 Kh1 Bc7 Qa7 Rb6 Ra6
Rcb8
Rxb6 Rxb6 Ra6 Rxa6 Qxa6
15:49:27.8 0.33 22 831099418 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rxa2 Qxa2 Bc7 Qa6 Rb8 Kh1
Rb6
Qa5 Qe8 Qa7 Qd7 Qa2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

So at move 37, you probably need +-2 hours and 18 ply. But even
a small difference in hash table size for example can cause the
move to be found a few ply earlier or later, with such long
searches, so it's hard to tell exactly.

--
GCP


  #5  
Old January 15th 04, 12:40 PM
frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Patch ChessMaster King

"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" wrote in message ...

ccctournament
http://amateurschach.de
phrocrew my nu zite
ladiest
probivnoi

g
  #6  
Old January 29th 04, 05:42 PM
Malcolm Shykles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" wrote in message ...
I tried DS 1.5 on my AMD 2200+ with a 512Mb hash table, and @ 15 ply was
still considering Qb6. Is this a new version you have created or
perhaps I didn't give it enough time??


I dug the original email up, from a user:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
we can say that with todays hardware, todays programs wont play
36.axb5 axb5 37.Be4 in tournament time control. there are several programs
that
will play these three moves if given enough time, for example, Deep Sjeng
1.5 in
8 hours.

Kasparov thought that any program would play 36.Qb6 and go after the pawns.
Kasparov thought that there was human GM interference during the game, and
that
no program would play 37.Be4 to block blacks pawn advance to e4.
Kasparov said these were strictly human moves.

I am a big fan of game two also. there are many other Deep Blue positions
that
are interesting.

Deep Blue
Game 2
looking for 36.axb5 axb5 with a follow up in same line of Deep Blue move
36.Be4

[D] r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Deep Sjeng 1.5

00:00:00.0 0.14 3 916 axb5 axb5 Ra7 e4
00:00:00.0 0.18 3 1389 Qb6 Rd8 Rd1
00:00:00.1 0.43 4 2428 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 bxa4
00:00:00.1 0.65 5 4298 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6
00:00:00.1 1.05 6 10991 Qb6
00:00:00.2 1.23 6 18084 Qb6 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5
00:00:00.4 1.63 7 63906 Qb6
00:00:00.5 1.70 7 103168 Qb6 Qf8 axb5 Rcb8 Qc6 Rxb5 Qxc4 Rc8
00:00:00.9 1.76 8 205205 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Qxb5 Ra5 Qxa6
00:00:01.5 1.87 9 434730 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+ Kh2
Qxc3 Bd1 Qd3 Qd8+
00:00:02.1 1.58 10 675737 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+
Kh2
Qxc3 Bb1 Qe1 Bc2 Kh7
00:00:06.7 1.66 11 2778737 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5 Rd1 Rc8 Qa7
Rb7
Qe3 Re8
00:00:14.1 1.82 12 7356866 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe2
00:00:29.3 1.85 13 17633035 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe1 Rbc8 Rb1 Rc7 Rxc7
00:00:58.0 1.86 14 37368960 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Rc7
Rb2 Rb8 Kh2 Re8 b5 Rb7 Kg1
00:02:36.3 1.92 15 101930093 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Rd7 Rb1 Qd8 Qa6
Re7
Kh2 Rec7 b5 Qd7 b6 Rb7
00:05:13.5 1.81 16 202236169 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Kh7 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8
Qxd6
Qa1+ Kh2 Qc1 g3 Qxc3 Qc7 Qxb4 d6 Qd2+ Bg2 c3
00:15:57.3 1.41 17 615522425 Qb6
00:24:10.7 1.38 17 906419035 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Re2 Qe5 Ra5
Qh2+
Kf1 Qf4+ Bf3 Qc1+ Kf2 Rxe2+ Bxe2 Qf4+
00:52:02.1 1.14 18 1923827531 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Kf1 Ra8
Qxa8
Qxe4 Qa4 Qd3+ Kg1 Qe3+ Rf2 Bg3 Qc2 Bxf2+ Qxf2 Qxc3 Rd1 Qxb4 b6 c3 d6
01:50:37.7 0.74 19 -268693714 Qb6
04:44:48.6 0.25 19 1581270505 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qe3 axb5 Be4 Qd8 Qa7 Bc7 Kh1
Rb6
Ra6 Rcb8 Rxb6 Rxb6 g3 Bd6
05:04:07.5 0.61 19 -1989327933 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 g3 Kf7 Kg2 Ke7 Kf3 Ba7 Ke4 Kd7 a6 Ke7
05:30:25.7 0.61 20 -949424887 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 Kf2 Kf7 Kf3 Ke7 g4 Ba7 a6
08:21:20.9 0.31 21 1080918576 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rab8 Kh1 Bc7 Qa7 Rb6 Ra6
Rcb8
Rxb6 Rxb6 Ra6 Rxa6 Qxa6
15:49:27.8 0.33 22 831099418 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rxa2 Qxa2 Bc7 Qa6 Rb8 Kh1
Rb6
Qa5 Qe8 Qa7 Qd7 Qa2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

So at move 37, you probably need +-2 hours and 18 ply. But even
a small difference in hash table size for example can cause the
move to be found a few ply earlier or later, with such long
searches, so it's hard to tell exactly.


I have just returned from seeing the documentary film "Gameover:
Kasparov and the Machine" about these matches.

It is interesting to note that Deep Blue was stored away after these
matches. You would have thought (thought no1) that some good use would
have been made of such of a machine.

Malcolm Shykles
  #7  
Old January 29th 04, 05:50 PM
Robert Hyatt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

In rec.games.chess.computer Malcolm Shykles wrote:
"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" wrote in message ...
I tried DS 1.5 on my AMD 2200+ with a 512Mb hash table, and @ 15 ply was
still considering Qb6. Is this a new version you have created or
perhaps I didn't give it enough time??


I dug the original email up, from a user:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
we can say that with todays hardware, todays programs wont play
36.axb5 axb5 37.Be4 in tournament time control. there are several programs
that
will play these three moves if given enough time, for example, Deep Sjeng
1.5 in
8 hours.

Kasparov thought that any program would play 36.Qb6 and go after the pawns.
Kasparov thought that there was human GM interference during the game, and
that
no program would play 37.Be4 to block blacks pawn advance to e4.
Kasparov said these were strictly human moves.

I am a big fan of game two also. there are many other Deep Blue positions
that
are interesting.

Deep Blue
Game 2
looking for 36.axb5 axb5 with a follow up in same line of Deep Blue move
36.Be4

[D] r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Deep Sjeng 1.5

00:00:00.0 0.14 3 916 axb5 axb5 Ra7 e4
00:00:00.0 0.18 3 1389 Qb6 Rd8 Rd1
00:00:00.1 0.43 4 2428 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 bxa4
00:00:00.1 0.65 5 4298 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6
00:00:00.1 1.05 6 10991 Qb6
00:00:00.2 1.23 6 18084 Qb6 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5
00:00:00.4 1.63 7 63906 Qb6
00:00:00.5 1.70 7 103168 Qb6 Qf8 axb5 Rcb8 Qc6 Rxb5 Qxc4 Rc8
00:00:00.9 1.76 8 205205 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Qxb5 Ra5 Qxa6
00:00:01.5 1.87 9 434730 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+ Kh2
Qxc3 Bd1 Qd3 Qd8+
00:00:02.1 1.58 10 675737 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+
Kh2
Qxc3 Bb1 Qe1 Bc2 Kh7
00:00:06.7 1.66 11 2778737 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5 Rd1 Rc8 Qa7
Rb7
Qe3 Re8
00:00:14.1 1.82 12 7356866 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe2
00:00:29.3 1.85 13 17633035 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe1 Rbc8 Rb1 Rc7 Rxc7
00:00:58.0 1.86 14 37368960 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Rc7
Rb2 Rb8 Kh2 Re8 b5 Rb7 Kg1
00:02:36.3 1.92 15 101930093 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Rd7 Rb1 Qd8 Qa6
Re7
Kh2 Rec7 b5 Qd7 b6 Rb7
00:05:13.5 1.81 16 202236169 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Kh7 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8
Qxd6
Qa1+ Kh2 Qc1 g3 Qxc3 Qc7 Qxb4 d6 Qd2+ Bg2 c3
00:15:57.3 1.41 17 615522425 Qb6
00:24:10.7 1.38 17 906419035 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Re2 Qe5 Ra5
Qh2+
Kf1 Qf4+ Bf3 Qc1+ Kf2 Rxe2+ Bxe2 Qf4+
00:52:02.1 1.14 18 1923827531 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Kf1 Ra8
Qxa8
Qxe4 Qa4 Qd3+ Kg1 Qe3+ Rf2 Bg3 Qc2 Bxf2+ Qxf2 Qxc3 Rd1 Qxb4 b6 c3 d6
01:50:37.7 0.74 19 -268693714 Qb6
04:44:48.6 0.25 19 1581270505 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qe3 axb5 Be4 Qd8 Qa7 Bc7 Kh1
Rb6
Ra6 Rcb8 Rxb6 Rxb6 g3 Bd6
05:04:07.5 0.61 19 -1989327933 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 g3 Kf7 Kg2 Ke7 Kf3 Ba7 Ke4 Kd7 a6 Ke7
05:30:25.7 0.61 20 -949424887 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 Kf2 Kf7 Kf3 Ke7 g4 Ba7 a6
08:21:20.9 0.31 21 1080918576 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rab8 Kh1 Bc7 Qa7 Rb6 Ra6
Rcb8
Rxb6 Rxb6 Ra6 Rxa6 Qxa6
15:49:27.8 0.33 22 831099418 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rxa2 Qxa2 Bc7 Qa6 Rb8 Kh1
Rb6
Qa5 Qe8 Qa7 Qd7 Qa2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

So at move 37, you probably need +-2 hours and 18 ply. But even
a small difference in hash table size for example can cause the
move to be found a few ply earlier or later, with such long
searches, so it's hard to tell exactly.


I have just returned from seeing the documentary film "Gameover:
Kasparov and the Machine" about these matches.


It is interesting to note that Deep Blue was stored away after these
matches. You would have thought (thought no1) that some good use would
have been made of such of a machine.


Deep Blue had _two_ parts. The special-purpose chess processors that
were plugged into each SP-2 processor node. And the IBM SP-2 machine
itself. The Processor boards were packed up and sit somewhere at IBM,
although I think some of them were put into a smaller SP2 and shipped
to the Smithsonian. The SP-2 was sold very soon after the event, as
it was not a "cheap box".

Cray did this for us many times, ie they let us use a machine to "burn it
in" but then as soon as the tournament would end, they would ship out out
the door to the customer that had bought it. You could have generated
rumors that they were trying to hide something by shipping the machine
so fast, but in reality they were just trying to make money. I suspect
the _same_ logic applies to the SP-2 that DB2 ran on in 1997. Stock-
holders frown on million dollar computers sitting around collecting dust.



I have not seen the film. I'm not sure I want to. I know that it will
be the epitome of balanced and fair reporting.



Malcolm Shykles


--
Robert M. Hyatt, Ph.D. Computer and Information Sciences
University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213 136A Campbell Hall
(205) 934-5473 FAX Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
  #9  
Old February 1st 04, 12:34 AM
Malcolm Shykles
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 37. Be4! (Deep Blue-Kasparov 1997 Game 2) - can Fritz & Junior match Deep Blue?

Robert Hyatt wrote in message ...
In rec.games.chess.computer Malcolm Shykles wrote:
"Gian-Carlo Pascutto" wrote in message ...
I tried DS 1.5 on my AMD 2200+ with a 512Mb hash table, and @ 15 ply was
still considering Qb6. Is this a new version you have created or
perhaps I didn't give it enough time??

I dug the original email up, from a user:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
we can say that with todays hardware, todays programs wont play
36.axb5 axb5 37.Be4 in tournament time control. there are several programs
that
will play these three moves if given enough time, for example, Deep Sjeng
1.5 in
8 hours.

Kasparov thought that any program would play 36.Qb6 and go after the pawns.
Kasparov thought that there was human GM interference during the game, and
that
no program would play 37.Be4 to block blacks pawn advance to e4.
Kasparov said these were strictly human moves.

I am a big fan of game two also. there are many other Deep Blue positions
that
are interesting.

Deep Blue
Game 2
looking for 36.axb5 axb5 with a follow up in same line of Deep Blue move
36.Be4

[D] r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1

Deep Sjeng 1.5

00:00:00.0 0.14 3 916 axb5 axb5 Ra7 e4
00:00:00.0 0.18 3 1389 Qb6 Rd8 Rd1
00:00:00.1 0.43 4 2428 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 bxa4
00:00:00.1 0.65 5 4298 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6
00:00:00.1 1.05 6 10991 Qb6
00:00:00.2 1.23 6 18084 Qb6 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5
00:00:00.4 1.63 7 63906 Qb6
00:00:00.5 1.70 7 103168 Qb6 Qf8 axb5 Rcb8 Qc6 Rxb5 Qxc4 Rc8
00:00:00.9 1.76 8 205205 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Qxb5 Ra5 Qxa6
00:00:01.5 1.87 9 434730 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+ Kh2
Qxc3 Bd1 Qd3 Qd8+
00:00:02.1 1.58 10 675737 Qb6 Rd8 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 Qxd6 Qa1+
Kh2
Qxc3 Bb1 Qe1 Bc2 Kh7
00:00:06.7 1.66 11 2778737 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Qd7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 Rxb5 Rd1 Rc8 Qa7
Rb7
Qe3 Re8
00:00:14.1 1.82 12 7356866 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe2
00:00:29.3 1.85 13 17633035 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Re8
Ra7 Rb8 Qe1 Rbc8 Rb1 Rc7 Rxc7
00:00:58.0 1.86 14 37368960 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qg5 Qf2
Rc7
Rb2 Rb8 Kh2 Re8 b5 Rb7 Kg1
00:02:36.3 1.92 15 101930093 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Rd7 Rb1 Qd8 Qa6
Re7
Kh2 Rec7 b5 Qd7 b6 Rb7
00:05:13.5 1.81 16 202236169 Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Kh7 axb5 axb5 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8
Qxd6
Qa1+ Kh2 Qc1 g3 Qxc3 Qc7 Qxb4 d6 Qd2+ Bg2 c3
00:15:57.3 1.41 17 615522425 Qb6
00:24:10.7 1.38 17 906419035 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Re2 Qe5 Ra5
Qh2+
Kf1 Qf4+ Bf3 Qc1+ Kf2 Rxe2+ Bxe2 Qf4+
00:52:02.1 1.14 18 1923827531 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qxa6 e4 Bxe4 Re8 Kf1 Ra8
Qxa8
Qxe4 Qa4 Qd3+ Kg1 Qe3+ Rf2 Bg3 Qc2 Bxf2+ Qxf2 Qxc3 Rd1 Qxb4 b6 c3 d6
01:50:37.7 0.74 19 -268693714 Qb6
04:44:48.6 0.25 19 1581270505 Qb6 Qe7 axb5 Rab8 Qe3 axb5 Be4 Qd8 Qa7 Bc7 Kh1
Rb6
Ra6 Rcb8 Rxb6 Rxb6 g3 Bd6
05:04:07.5 0.61 19 -1989327933 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 g3 Kf7 Kg2 Ke7 Kf3 Ba7 Ke4 Kd7 a6 Ke7
05:30:25.7 0.61 20 -949424887 axb5 axb5 Qb6 Rxa2 Rxa2 Ra8 Ra5 Rxa5 bxa5 Qb8
Qxb8+ Bxb8 Kf2 Kf7 Kf3 Ke7 g4 Ba7 a6
08:21:20.9 0.31 21 1080918576 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rab8 Kh1 Bc7 Qa7 Rb6 Ra6
Rcb8
Rxb6 Rxb6 Ra6 Rxa6 Qxa6
15:49:27.8 0.33 22 831099418 axb5 axb5 Be4 Qd8 g3 Rxa2 Qxa2 Bc7 Qa6 Rb8 Kh1
Rb6
Qa5 Qe8 Qa7 Qd7 Qa2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

So at move 37, you probably need +-2 hours and 18 ply. But even
a small difference in hash table size for example can cause the
move to be found a few ply earlier or later, with such long
searches, so it's hard to tell exactly.


I have just returned from seeing the documentary film "Gameover:
Kasparov and the Machine" about these matches.


It is interesting to note that Deep Blue was stored away after these
matches. You would have thought (thought no1) that some good use would
have been made of such of a machine.


Deep Blue had _two_ parts. The special-purpose chess processors that
were plugged into each SP-2 processor node. And the IBM SP-2 machine
itself. The Processor boards were packed up and sit somewhere at IBM,
although I think some of them were put into a smaller SP2 and shipped
to the Smithsonian. The SP-2 was sold very soon after the event, as
it was not a "cheap box".

Cray did this for us many times, ie they let us use a machine to "burn it
in" but then as soon as the tournament would end, they would ship out out
the door to the customer that had bought it. You could have generated
rumors that they were trying to hide something by shipping the machine
so fast, but in reality they were just trying to make money. I suspect
the _same_ logic applies to the SP-2 that DB2 ran on in 1997. Stock-
holders frown on million dollar computers sitting around collecting dust.



I have not seen the film. I'm not sure I want to. I know that it will
be the epitome of balanced and fair reporting.



Malcolm Shykles


"In 1989, Kasparov easily defeated IBM's Deep Blue chess machine, then
named 'Deep Thought'
The Deep Blue team spent seven long years preparing for a return match
with Kasparov, which they eventually got in 1996.
Kasparov studied the program's play, identified weaknesses in it, and
used this to win three of the five games (with two draws) to score a
convincing match victory.
The 1996 match reportedly generated over $250 million of "free
favorable advertising" for IBM
After the Philadelphia loss, the Deep Blue team retreated to their
laboratory just north of New York City and did extensive secret
preparations. The new hardware consisted of a 32-node SP-2 computer
with 512 chess chips.

.the Deep Blue team is Harry Houdini and IBM, his agent"

"And of the future? At the time of this writing, Kasparov has been
using every media opportunity to issue a challenge to Deep Blue to
play a 10-game match in November:
I also think IBM owes me, and all mankind, a re-match. I hereby
challenge IBM to a match of 10 games, 20 days long, to play every
second day. I would like to have access in advance to the log of 10
Deep Blue games played with a neutral player or another computer in
the presence of my representative. I would like to play it this fall,
when I can be in my best form after a summer of vacation and
preparation. And I'm ready to play for all or nothing, winner take
all, just to show that it's not about money. Moreover, I think it
would be advisable if IBM would step down as an organizer of the
match. It should be organized independently.

Everyone is waiting for IBM's response."

Source for the above http://www.cs.vu.nl/~aske/db.html

Kasparov has defeated IBM computers two matches to one, he is
therefore the overall winner.

The real give away of possible human involvement is that Deep Blue
took 15 minutes on the following move 37 Be4; rebuilding the hash
tables perhaps?

Malcolm Shykles
 




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