![]() |
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
| Tags: positions, test |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
|
I know the various Nunn test sets that exist and most engines now can
handle them pretty well. There are a few old chestnuts that still distress particular engines and are instantly handled by others. eg. 6kr/5b1p/2p3pP/rpPp1pP1/pP1PpP2/P3P3/1K6/8 w - - (William Harston composed anti-computer puzzle - cited by Roger Penrose in "Shadows of the Mind") The classic blocked pawn structure with a rook ready to be taken only if you want to lose. Very few chess engines can see this until they enumerate to around 23 ply in 2-15 minutes. Shredder is the exception taking about 1s. Time to realise that taking the rook will lose is the measure of goodness. There are also constructed positions intended as parts of endgame studies or puzzles. I have found a class of these that distress the Chessbase engine interface when submitted to infinite analysis with multiple lines displayed (UCI engines like Rybka do not cripple to quite the same extent). The following fairly innocent looking position grinds to a standstill within 60s. Almost all the time after that is spent looking at lines where mate in N has already been declared. Only a few useful seconds are spent on the unresolved part of the problem the rest of the time is wasted. Chessbase say this is "normal" and not a bug. I will let you try it and decide. Display all the continuation lines and then watch what happens when the search ply reaches 20 It only runs at full speed for about 30s and then it is like wading through treacle. k6K/P1p3rP/qQP3Pb/1PP3p1/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1 High mobility N-queens type puzzle positions can also crash the Chessbase interface software (and in a way that is sometimes useful if you want to reset your games won/lost/drawn counters to zero). Perhaps unsafe.. Incidentally I would really like there to be a lock so that when an infinite analysis is in progress and already has run for more than a few hours clicking on the moves graph or moves list should show an "are you sure?" msg. It is too easy to destroy some hard won analysis with a misplaced mouse click off the edge of an overlapping window. But I am now interested in finding new example positions from real games where different engines and humans score variations radically differently. This question arises out of the crippled Crafty rates world champions thread. New constructed positions are also OK, but the idea is to find a small subset of positions that highlight the differences between various engines to the maximum extent. If it comes from a game please give details. I am keen to compare engine analysis of a position taken in isolation against the analysis of the whole game tree. Positions that highlight the virtues of your favourite engine are especially welcome! Standard test conditiions infinite analysis top N lines displayed (please specify N). We already have the line suggested by Phil Innes from Najer vs Bezgodov 2003 rnbk1b1r/pp3ppp/8/2p1P3/2p5/2P2N2/P4PPP/R1B1KB1R b KQ - 0 10 Q: Which engines can see the continuation line (at probably 3rd ot 4th best): 10. ... h6 11. Bxc4 Be6 12. Bxe6 fxe6 13. Nh4 So far Rybka2.3.1 (13ply, 15s), Shredder10 (16 ply, 4m) and Fruit2.2.1 (18ply, 30min) pass this test. Later in the same game there is a tricky endgame position that exposes some gaps in Rybkas evaluation function. It lacks discrimination in this particular endgame when compared to Shredder10. 4r3/p5p1/1p4Pp/3KBP2/P1p3P1/3p4/2k5/7R b - - 0 35 One of 35. ... Re7, 35. ... d2, 35. .... c3 might save the day or might not. None of the engines can see sufficiently deeply into this position to get a handle on it. Rybka notably flatlines at ply19 with most lines having the same evaluation (either 2.45 or 3.71). And a very effective position for sorting the wheat from the chaff was suggested by HelpBot. It comes from the Kasparov-Anand Tal memorial match at Riga 1995 [C51]. The key position after move 11 is r1bqk2r/ppppbppp/2n5/3nP3/8/2P2NQ1/P3BPPP/RNB1K2R b KQkq - 0 11 At ply 16 Rybka favours 11. ... OO (expecting 12. OO in response) by ply 18 it sees 12. Bh6 etc in a slightly long winded form. Other engines get wildy different scores for the same moves and lines of play. Hard to say that Rybka is exactly right, but if it agrees with Shredder then the odd man out is usually wrong. Worth looking at the top 10 lines in this position if you believe Rybka - other engines like Fritz8 have *very* different ideas. Maximum difference is for Rybkas top line at 4 mins elapsed 11. ... OO [rybka -0.20; fritz 0.75] a massive 95cp! Fritz clearly doesn't like to risk losing the exchange by castling into it 11. ... g6 have similar evaluations. I am hoping that others will add to the thread with unusual positions where engines give significantly different answers - and preferably where there is a GM level game to provide a context. Thanks for any enlightenment. Regards, Martin Brown |
| Ads |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Test Positions | Martin Brown | rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis) | 0 | May 9th 07 04:20 PM |
| Solving chess | entrokey | rec.games.chess.computer (Computer Chess) | 47 | February 2nd 07 08:10 PM |
| Test suites and ply depth | Akorps@aol.com | rec.games.chess.computer (Computer Chess) | 3 | November 14th 06 04:10 PM |
| ChessCafe blackmailing USCF? | parrthenon@cs.com | rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) | 165 | October 7th 05 08:05 PM |
| ChessCafe blackmailing USCF? | parrthenon@cs.com | rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) | 117 | October 7th 05 06:04 PM |