Hi,

For some years I used an old Fritz3 to play chess against the
computer. I never purchased a new one because never cared much to play
against computers, always prefering to play humans.
Now I don't have much time to go to local club and play humans, so I
started to play more against computer.
I would like to buy a new program. My force is about 1600 ELO.
I have been looking the net and found so many programs that I cannot
choose only by the advertising.
From Fritz 10, Hiarcs 10, Shredder 10, Junior 10, Rybka 2.3.2, Tiger
15 and others, what would you choose?

Thanks in advance,

JP

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:27:34 -0700, wrote:

From Fritz 10, Hiarcs 10, Shredder 10, Junior 10, Rybka 2.3.2, Tiger
15 and others, what would you choose?

I have Rybka 2.3.2, Shredder 10, and Deep Fritz 10. Rybka is the
strongest, however it needs an interface such as one of the other
programs. I think Fritz may be a little better than the rest, but I'm
not positive. There is a rating list somewhere. Shredder is said to
be better in the endgame.
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Shredder was the best at endgames until very recently. Rybka 2.3.2
(the latest version) has scored the highest-ever at solving endgame
test positions, and now there is a 2.3.2a version that supposedly
fixes some zugzwang bugs so it is even better yet.

Without a doubt Rybka is the strongest chess engine around, and by a
considerable margin. This latest version added an estimated 35-40 ELO
over 2.3.1, so it is actually pulling away from the field. If you add
Rybka's performance in every high profile computer chess tournament it
has participated in since it started you will find that it has posted
an amazing 88% success rate.

However if you want a complete chess package you really ought to buy
Fritz 10 strictly for the GUI and access to the server, and then buy
Rybka separately. That would be the best of all worlds.

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:55:08 -0700, wrote:

Shredder was the best at endgames until very recently. Rybka 2.3.2
(the latest version) has scored the highest-ever at solving endgame
test positions, and now there is a 2.3.2a version that supposedly
fixes some zugzwang bugs so it is even better yet.

Thanks for that info. I have both of those, but only the single
processor version of Shredder, and I have a dual core CPU now, so I
can use the mp version of Rybka.
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wrote:

For some years I used an old Fritz3 to play chess against the
computer. I never purchased a new one because never cared much to play
against computers, always prefering to play humans.

Now I don't have much time to go to local club and play humans, so I
started to play more against computer.

I would like to buy a new program. My force is about 1600 ELO.

I have been looking the net and found so many programs that I cannot
choose only by the advertising.

That's because the advertising makes the same error tjat some
of the replies in this thread make: confusing the questions
"whats the best program for a 1600 player?" with "what's the
strongest program?" You need to figure out which program you
will enjoy using most and which will best help you to improve.

Your very first question should be which of the following
best meets your needs:

[1] Computer program on a PC

[2] Computer program on a PDA

[3] Standalone dedicated chess computer

[4] Handheld dedicated chess computer

[5] Website where you can play against a computer

[6] Website where you can play against a human

My Ivan chess computer say's I,800 ELO on the box but a guy kept
dummying down his Fritz and around I,700 ELO they battled real well ..So
i think Ivan is about I700 ELO....
When fritz was beating it i can see Ivans weaknesses in the end game
but i am not good enough to exploit them myself ..
I have beaten Ivan one time at it's strongest level and lost 400 +
times over the years.
I usually only play the strongest level..I have not played it in awhile
..Been kind of busy.
hey if you want to play it you can over e mail..

On Jun 19, 4:01 pm, Guy Macon http://www.guymacon.com/ wrote:
wrote:
For some years I used an old Fritz3 to play chess against the
computer. I never purchased a new one because never cared much to play
against computers, always prefering to play humans.

Now I don't have much time to go to local club and play humans, so I
started to play more against computer.

I would like to buy a new program. My force is about 1600 ELO.

I have been looking the net and found so many programs that I cannot
choose only by the advertising.

That's because the advertising makes the same error tjat some
of the replies in this thread make: confusing the questions
"whats the best program for a 1600 player?" with "what's the
strongest program?" You need to figure out which program you
will enjoy using most and which will best help you to improve.

Your very first question should be which of the following
best meets your needs:

[1] Computer program on a PC

[2] Computer program on a PDA

[3] Standalone dedicated chess computer

[4] Handheld dedicated chess computer

[5] Website where you can play against a computer

[6] Website where you can play against a human

I prefer a computer program to use on a PC.
Of course, the problem of knowing which is the strongest program is
not very important because I cannot beat any of those I mentioned.
I want it for fun, for learning and for training. Practicing openings
is important.

JP

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:10:28 -0700, wrote:


Of course, the problem of knowing which is the strongest program is
not very important because I cannot beat any of those I mentioned.

Then you should not pick Rybka. I think all of the others you
mentioned use the same interface. I haven't used Hiarcs or Junior,
but I would go with Fritz of that set. It can interface with other
stuff. Another program to consider is Chessmaster.
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On Jun 21, 12:10 am, wrote:

I prefer a computer program to use on a PC.

OK. For a 1600 player one thing you need to watch out for is that the
latest strong engines find it difficult to play serious games down to
that level. They tend to play like a GM for a while and then make an
obvious gross blunder. The engines around Junior7/Fritz8 have a
weakest rated play level around the 1600 mark and are remaindered in
various places. Cheap Fritz9 deals are also about. I would recommend
Shredder10 if you are only going to buy one engine from the top flight
CB series (the highly compreesed endgame tablebases are a useful
bonus).

Around the 1600 level Chessmaster with its multiple style playing
personalities spanning the range is pretty good. And again the
previous version is remaindered in various outlets for generic
computer software at £10. The newest one might have an improved GUI
(IMO it could hardly be worse) but the engine plays pretty well for
not much money. I don't like the cluttered user interface, and copy
protection but it is still a bargain if you want something to play
against.

Of course, the problem of knowing which is the strongest program is
not very important because I cannot beat any of those I mentioned.
I want it for fun, for learning and for training. Practicing openings
is important.

You should also consider some tactical training software like CT-Art
3.0. That did wonders for my playing strength. Much more so than
sparring against engines.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Jun 21, 3:17 am, Martin Brown
wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:10 am, wrote:

I prefer a computer program to use on a PC.

OK. For a 1600 player one thing you need to watch out for is that the
latest strong engines find it difficult to play serious games down to
that level. They tend to play like a GM for a while and then make an
obvious gross blunder. The engines around Junior7/Fritz8 have a
weakest rated play level around the 1600 mark and are remaindered in
various places. Cheap Fritz9 deals are also about. I would recommend
Shredder10 if you are only going to buy one engine from the top flight
CB series (the highly compreesed endgame tablebases are a useful
bonus).


An alternative to buying an older, inferior program so
as not to be overwhelmed by its playing strength would
be to accept the fact that you can't hold your own here,
and use them as a learning tool.

One idea is to play a series of slow games in various
openings (and lose horribly, as usual), then slowly replay
each game from the other side, from the program's
perspective. You just might learn not only which of your
habitual moves are inferior, but precisely how to refute
them! The next time you play a human and he does
what you *used to do*, you will now be carrying a gun to
a knife fight.

If you really want to be able to beat a modern program,
just take a Knight or Rook off the board and see how it
turns out. If that's not enough, remove the Queen and
see if you can play well enough to win.

Finally, there are a few chess programs which are now
free, and which can be downloaded on the internet. One
such program is Rebel, and another is Fritz 5.32. IMO,
these beat paying for a remaindered program except in
the case of endgame tablebases, which they won't have.
The point is simply that going back one or two versions
of Fritz or Junior will still leave you with a program that
will demolish you easily, although I must admit that my
suggestions are still too strong on any modern hardware.

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