Dear Mike,

Although I do not agree with Jasom Repa's and other methods - I do now
believe you are violating the spirit of usenet by promoting your
software, company and/or yourself on usenet.

I respectfully ask that you reconsider your marketing plan and your of
usenet for your personal gain. Bookup is a great product, but I
believe there must be a better ways to market Bookup. I suggest you
consider the methods you employed before usenet. As we all know, we
all directly/indirectly share in the cost of usenet and your use of
usenet for personal gain is wrong in my opinion.

In addition, I believe it will make r.g.c.c a more enjoyable forum.

Thank you.

Michael Byrne

Michael Byrne wrote:

Although I do not agree with Jasom Repa's and other methods - I do now
believe you are violating the spirit of usenet by promoting your
software, company and/or yourself on usenet.

Can you point a message where you think he violated the spirit of
USENET, telling how you think he did that? I'm new in USENET, and these
"spirit" thing is really new to me (I mean, did he SPAMMED the group? I
don't think so, but I can be wrong)...

[]s
--
..O. Cesar A. K. Grossmann ICQ UIN: 35659423
...O http://www.LinuxByGrossmann.cjb.net/
OOO Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur

Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
Michael Byrne wrote:


Although I do not agree with Jasom Repa's and other methods - I do now
believe you are violating the spirit of usenet by promoting your
software, company and/or yourself on usenet.


Can you point a message where you think he violated the spirit of
USENET, telling how you think he did that? I'm new in USENET, and these
"spirit" thing is really new to me (I mean, did he SPAMMED the group? I
don't think so, but I can be wrong)...

Normally you are not supposed to make posts to usenet that attempt to
get people to look at, download, and/or buy your product; in other words
spamming a newsgroup. In that regard Mike Leahy would be violating
netiquette by posting about his database as in the thread titled,
"Bookup at the World Open," posted 6/29/04.

However, this group's charter states:

"
The rec.games.chess.computer newsgroup will provide a place to
disseminate reports, discussions and analysis of game servers, where
chess games can be played in real time, similar to playing games of
chess via telephone; information and discussion about databases, games
collections, chess-playing software, and other computer programs of a
similar nature, either offered for sale, or in the state of development.
"

Therefore it appears to be fair game to 'spam' this group with
information about any chess related software. Netiquette also dictates
that you should read the group's charter before making complaints about
other people's posts.

Spam is only spam if it is unsolicited. In this group such posts are
not spam.

So, to answer your question: Mike Leahy has not violated the 'spirit' of
USENET that I have seen.

NR


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Noah Roberts wrote in message ...
Cesar A. K. Grossmann wrote:
Michael Byrne wrote:


Although I do not agree with Jasom Repa's and other methods - I do now
believe you are violating the spirit of usenet by promoting your
software, company and/or yourself on usenet.


Can you point a message where you think he violated the spirit of
USENET, telling how you think he did that? I'm new in USENET, and these
"spirit" thing is really new to me (I mean, did he SPAMMED the group? I
don't think so, but I can be wrong)...

Normally you are not supposed to make posts to usenet that attempt to
get people to look at, download, and/or buy your product; in other words
spamming a newsgroup. In that regard Mike Leahy would be violating
netiquette by posting about his database as in the thread titled,
"Bookup at the World Open," posted 6/29/04.

However, this group's charter states:

"
The rec.games.chess.computer newsgroup will provide a place to
disseminate reports, discussions and analysis of game servers, where
chess games can be played in real time, similar to playing games of
chess via telephone; information and discussion about databases, games
collections, chess-playing software, and other computer programs of a
similar nature, either offered for sale, or in the state of development.
"

Therefore it appears to be fair game to 'spam' this group with
information about any chess related software. Netiquette also dictates
that you should read the group's charter before making complaints about
other people's posts.

Spam is only spam if it is unsolicited. In this group such posts are
not spam.

So, to answer your question: Mike Leahy has not violated the 'spirit' of
USENET that I have seen.

NR


You referenced the post that I was refering to when I made my post.
First, let me state that I like Mike, I do own an old version of
Bookup and I did meet Mike at the World Open years ago in Phildalphia.
He is a very friendly person and I'm not suggesting to anyone not to
buy his Bookup product.

But the more I thought about last Mike last post, the more I thought
it was spam. I read the r.c.c. charter , I do not see the words
"spam is permitted" and I do not draw the same conclusion you did from
reading the charter that Mike's post is permitted. It also is not
proper etiquette to make assumptions about whether one read the
charter or not when you simply do not know.

Charters, like just anything else written in the world, are subject to
different interpretations. It is your opinion that Mike has not
violated the 'spirit' of USENET that you have seen (interpreted). In
any event , we all have a right to our opinions and to express
ourselves.

Let me give my reasons why I do think that post was spam and is not in
the spriit of usenet.

First, Mike has a mailing list, Anubody who has downloaded Mike's
software has provided Mike with an opt-in to his mailing list. So
Mike does have an option to email all his users about the his planned
visit to the World Open. To me, that would have been proper. I am
not 100% sure if Mike emailed his users, about his planned visit to
the World Open, but I know I did not get an email and I am on his
list. Mike elected to post here - why because (imo) he is trying to
reach people that have not downloaded his software. He is not posting
here to let the people at the WO he will be there because - guess
what , if you are at the World Open, you will not be able to miss Mike
at his table. He usually has a prime table that is unavoidable to
miss. So the post was not for current users ( or else he would have
emailed them) , it is not for WO participants (they will see him
anyway) - the main target of his post was for non users of Bookup. So
it is clearly spam and with a profit motive.

It appears you based your opinion on the words "and other computer
programs of a similar nature, either offered for sale, or in the state
of development."

IMO, You are focused on the the word "sale" and you think it means ,
it is ok to "sale" your program on r.g.c.c. I see the word "sale" and
how it is contrasted with those programs in development, meaning you
have discusions for programs that are either for sale or for
development , but not meaning to spam the news group to sale your
program. Also , I do not have problem with a programmer stating he
has a new version of his program to inform the public. But Mike's
posts are pretty much , hey come try my product and , btw, it the same
thing your tried 4 weeks ago. He is clearly making repetitive posts
to sell the same version. I would feel a lot better about it if he
simply informed us of new versions.

You could be right, but I think I am right at the moment, but I would
defer to the author(s) of the charter if he(they) is willing to offer
his(their) insight on what he(they) meant.

Michael Byrne

Michael Byrne says...

But the more I thought about last Mike last post, the more I thought
it was spam. I read the r.c.c. charter , I do not see the words
"spam is permitted"

I suggest that you both start using the definition of "spam" that is
in use by virtually all of the people who own the systems that we use
to read newsgroup articles:

http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/spam.html
http://home.att.net/~penn/spamcanc.htm

Guy Macon wrote:

I suggest that you both start using the definition of "spam" that is
in use by virtually all of the people who own the systems that we use
to read newsgroup articles:

I would suggest the Net Abuse FAQ myself, for instance:

http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

It's particularly relevant as it deals with newsgroup spamming,
which is slighty different from other types.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath

Anders Thulin wrote in message ...
Guy Macon wrote:

I suggest that you both start using the definition of "spam" that is
in use by virtually all of the people who own the systems that we use
to read newsgroup articles:

I would suggest the Net Abuse FAQ myself, for instance:

http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html

It's particularly relevant as it deals with newsgroup spamming,
which is slighty different from other types.

Correct, old usenet convention defines spamming as excessive multiple
posting, that is, the repeated posting of a message (or substantially
similar messages).

I'm using the more recent application of the term spam that equates
internet advertising through the use of email or usenet postings. The
internet is dynamic , not static and over time terms will start to
mean something other than what the term was intended for. It is part
of the evolution of language and meanings of words often change over
time.

Noah Roberts wrote in message ...

However, this group's charter states:

"
The rec.games.chess.computer newsgroup will provide a place to
disseminate reports, discussions and analysis of game servers, where
chess games can be played in real time, similar to playing games of
chess via telephone; information and discussion about databases, games
collections, chess-playing software, and other computer programs of a
similar nature, either offered for sale, or in the state of development.
"


Most rules are open to misinterpretation and abuse. Leahy giving out
information about a new developement to his product is one thing and
Leahy "informing" everyone here about the same software time and
again, whenever he see a sliver of an opportunity, is quite another.

Mike's one of those guys who would probably keep taking his kids to
the same store that's giving out free promotional candy. Damn
annoying, but well within his rights!

Michael Byrne wrote:

I'm using the more recent application of the term spam that equates
internet advertising through the use of email or usenet postings.

Don't recognize that one -- where does that come from? Spamhaus
simply defines it as unsolicited bulk email, and they are pretty
much at the bleeding edge of the problem. No advertising
is mentioned there either.

In the meantime, I'd suggest you collect a few more of these
postings you object to. Once you've shown the practice is systematical,
you will get far better response to your request.

--
Anders Thulin ath*algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath

Nonyz wrote:

[snip]

Guess I have to add you to my killfile yet again. No, your post wasn't
abusive this time, but as I recall I killfiled you for very good reasons.

NR


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