Fritz 8

Have you tried the "Sparring" and "Friend" levels? They are much more
instructive than the "Handicap and Fun" levels.

According to a Tech Note on chessbase.com, after Fritz sets up a good
move to be found and you find it, it reverts to its normal playing
strength mode.

I started the Sparring level on "Very easy." I'm now playing it on
"Normal" and hope to be able to crank it up another notch. I used the
"flashing red light" to alert me to a good move opportunity at first,
but later turned this off as its much easier to find a "winning" move if
you know it's there. Now I use the "you missed something" alert, and
just keep on playing and the return to the game later to see what I
missed.



wrote:

I'm a beginner, and although I know that I can learn from
losing, I would like to win a game once in a while. The
problem is I have Fritz 8, and it is too strong for me.
There are handicap settings, but they play more like a
master who is letting me win, than a weak player trying his
best.

Can anyone point me to an engine that doesn't make blunders,
but isn't very good?

I'm a beginner, and although I know that I can learn from
losing, I would like to win a game once in a while. The
problem is I have Fritz 8, and it is too strong for me.
There are handicap settings, but they play more like a
master who is letting me win, than a weak player trying his
best.

Can anyone point me to an engine that doesn't make blunders,
but isn't very good?

... but they play more like a
master who is letting me win, than a weak player trying his
best.

Can anyone point me to an engine that doesn't make blunders,
but isn't very good?

Weak players always make blunders. Humans make blunders, too. Like Mike
Adams the last few days, and he's a grandmaster. You need to learn to
spot them when they're made, because almost everyone makes them in a
game, even if they're really good.

If you think Fritz8 is letting you win, why don't you crank up your
effective Elo (friend mode) until you can't beat it anymore. You
shouldn't have to push that slider very far. Or use training mode, it's
even better. But throwing you opportunities to spot is what you need,
not something to avoid.

The better engines, F8 among them, play a more human style of chess, IMO,
than the really bad chess programs you're talking about, which epitomize
'computer-style' chess. You'll never learn to play 'people chess' if you
play those. Bad computer chess programs play a really bad style of
chess. You won't learn good chess by playing an opponent that plays bad
chess.

You've already got a really nice program, but you need to spend some time
learning to use it. If you've got Fritz8 you've a free subscription to
Playbase for a year -- use it - it's quite nice. Get on line and play
against some beginners (real people). Analyze your games afterward,
especially the ones you lose, with the Fritz8 analysis program. You'll
get a lot better, a lot faster, this way. You need to know what you did
wrong in a game. You already have all you need.

Someone posted a message a couple of weeks ago that used almost the exact
same wording used here. Surprised your server still doesn't have those
messages for you to read. You might want to look those up.

SethB schrieb:
... but they play more like a
master who is letting me win, than a weak player trying his
best.

Can anyone point me to an engine that doesn't make blunders,
but isn't very good?


Weak players always make blunders. Humans make blunders, too. Like Mike
Adams the last few days, and he's a grandmaster. You need to learn to
spot them when they're made, because almost everyone makes them in a
game, even if they're really good.

Agree, but Fritz's blunders are too obvious even for a beginner. You can
count on it that it will sacrifice it's Queen in a very illogical manner
and the program doesn't really give the impression of winning (except
during the endgame).


If you think Fritz8 is letting you win, why don't you crank up your
effective Elo (friend mode) until you can't beat it anymore. You
shouldn't have to push that slider very far. Or use training mode, it's
even better. But throwing you opportunities to spot is what you need,
not something to avoid.

Again, it still does those mistakes and you can win. Also in Friends
mode, Fritz is very drastically reducing the strength as soon as you
loose, it is even reducing strength after a draw and I haven't really
found that it plays better with a handicap of -500 vs. -350.


The better engines, F8 among them, play a more human style of chess, IMO,
than the really bad chess programs you're talking about, which epitomize
'computer-style' chess. You'll never learn to play 'people chess' if you
play those. Bad computer chess programs play a really bad style of
chess. You won't learn good chess by playing an opponent that plays bad
chess.


When it comes to Fritz engines I personally prefer HIACS' playing style,
IMO Fritz and Shredder are much too "nice" playing in friends mode and
too difficult in Sparring.

For a beginner's workout IMO Chessmaster and Kasparov chess offer a lot.
It's not only more fun to play different personalities and styles but
but the results are much better. The personalities between 900 and 1.500
ELO merciless take advantage of all typical beginner's blunders. There
are certain attacks that none of the Fritz engines do in friend mode but
a human player would by all means exploit. On the other hand sparring
mode is for a beginner pretty frustrating. It's not only losing but the
tactical hints are too little explained. I'm sure that those tactics are
comprehensible for the intermediate and advanced players, but for a
beginner they are pretty cryptic. Chessmaster on the other hand offers
more information especially aimed at beginners or intermediate payers,
just think about the great tutorials and reference materials that'll
keep you busy for several weeks.

Cheers
Claudia

wrote in message
...
I'm a beginner, and although I know that I can learn from
losing, I would like to win a game once in a while. The
problem is I have Fritz 8, and it is too strong for me.
There are handicap settings, but they play more like a
master who is letting me win, than a weak player trying his
best.

Can anyone point me to an engine that doesn't make blunders,
but isn't very good?


There are weak winboard engines that are free. The weakest I've seen is
Geko 4.3 http://www.geocities.com/gekochess/

Golem01 is a little better, but still weak.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chaos/9481/

If those aren't good enough, move up to something like St. Andersen or
LarsenVB.

http://www.winboardengines.de/html/w...tailpages.html

Lots of free engines here with various strengths

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:44:04 -0400, SethB
wrote:
Someone posted a message a couple of weeks ago that used almost the exact
same wording used here. Surprised your server still doesn't have those
messages for you to read. You might want to look those up.

I would like to, but either your memory is failing you or my
server is failing me, because I've entered every key word
and synonym I can think of for easy, novice, beginner, etc.,
and can't find anything for the last month. If you can give
me a little more detail, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

Someone posted a message a couple of weeks ago that used almost the exact
same wording used here. Surprised your server still doesn't have those
messages for you to read. You might want to look those up.

I would like to, but either your memory is failing you or my
server is failing me, because I've entered every key word
and synonym I can think of for easy, novice, beginner, etc.,
and can't find anything for the last month. If you can give
me a little more detail, I'd appreciate it.

If your server doesn't have them, it doesn't have them. As I recall, the
subject line was different, perhaps too obtuse for your search to fine,
but the content almost identical, and there were a few responses to the
message. But I would guess the post was made within the past couple of
months, at most.

wrote in message . ..
I'm a beginner, and although I know that I can learn from
losing, I would like to win a game once in a while. The
problem is I have Fritz 8, and it is too strong for me.
There are handicap settings, but they play more like a
master who is letting me win, than a weak player trying his
best.

Can anyone point me to an engine that doesn't make blunders,
but isn't very good?


Nero:
http://www.mit.jyu.fi/~huikari/download.html

There's a winboard engine and two standalone DOS based programs. I've
found "Nero Blitz" the tougher of the two to beat.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 13:37:15 -0400, SethB
wrote:
Someone posted a message a couple of weeks ago that used almost the exact
same wording used here. Surprised your server still doesn't have those
messages for you to read. You might want to look those up.

I would like to, but either your memory is failing you or my
server is failing me, because I've entered every key word
and synonym I can think of for easy, novice, beginner, etc.,
and can't find anything for the last month. If you can give
me a little more detail, I'd appreciate it.

If your server doesn't have them, it doesn't have them. As I recall, the
subject line was different, perhaps too obtuse for your search to fine,
but the content almost identical, and there were a few responses to the
message. But I would guess the post was made within the past couple of
months, at most.

OK, thanks. I guess it was over a month, which is how far
back my server goes.

In further reading on the web, I have also realized that I
misused the word "blunder" in my original post. I thought a
blunder was to leave a piece hanging, which at my level is
true. But I now see that good players consider it a blunder
to make any move that lets the opponent win, even if the win
requires a combination that a beginner would probably miss.