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Zebediah win against the Advance Level, Please Analyze?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 7th 08, 12:30 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Martin Brown
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Posts: 483
Default Zebediah win against the Advance Level, Please Analyze?

Sanny wrote:
A week back Zebediah used to win in 20-30 moves but now the GetClubs
game was a bit improved now Zebediah takes 35 moves to win against the
Advance Level.


But your program was already dead in the water at move 25. He just took
another 10 moves to finish it off.

If you can spot any mistake in GetClubs game I can improve it further.


The predictable spite checks do not help. He set up a position where the
spite check gets the queen into trouble and Getclub fell for it hook
line and sinker. Getclub also set about partially creating a trap for
its own queen which Zebediah did not exploit.

I do not understand how zebediah manages to win Advance in just 35-40
Moves?


He is a lot stronger than your program and possibly an anticomputer
specialist. He is winning in about 20 moves it take 35-40 before the
computer finally sees that.


Game Played between zebediah and advance at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...903&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(zebediah) -- (advance)

10. e4-d5{330} Qd8-a5{1444}


Spite check 10. ... Be7 was OK

13. c4-b5{104} Qb6-d4{2188}


Queen move when 13. ... Ne4 was better

16. Bf1-e2{234} Ra8-c8{1372}


16. .... d5 was better

18. Ke1-g1{514} d5-d4{2022}


d5 is asking for trouble by restricting queens mobility. It is all
downhill from here. Whites queenside pawns are already lethal.
19. Bf3 and blacks queen is struggling for safe squares.

18. ... Bc5 (or Bd6, Be7) about as good as there is

22. Ra1-c1{518} Qe4-a8{3138}


22. ... RxR 23. QxR Qa8 is better.

24. a6-a7{128} Nf6-d5{1558}


24. ... Qb7 or Ke7 or Ne4 are the least bad.

26. Bb5-c6{410} Nd5-f6{1798}


26. ... h5 makes the best of a bad job

Is it making Tactical Mistakes or it is doing Strategy Mistake. Please
Explain the mistake So that I really undersatand what went wrong.


It is a fairly simple tactical error. It isn't a good idea to move the
queen excessively, give spite checks that help your opponent to develop
minor pieces or to trap your own queen. And letting him grab a huge
queenside pawn advantage early on isn't very smart either.

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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  #12  
Old May 7th 08, 05:38 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer,rec.games.chess.politics
Sanny
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Posts: 3,337
Default Zebediah win against the Advance Level, Please Analyze?

It is a fairly simple tactical error. It isn't a good idea to move the
queen excessively, give spite checks that help your opponent to develop
minor pieces or to trap your own queen. And letting him grab a huge
queenside pawn advantage early on isn't very smart either.


After this game was played, GetClub was further improved

Now Zebediah takes 50-60 moves to win against the Advance Level. So I
find him playing with Master Level.

He is able to win Master Level in 35 Moves earlier He used to win
Advance Level in 35 moves So there is a great improvement in GetClubs
Game recently. Now, It Plays Roughly 4 times Stronger than earlier..

Game Played between zebediah and master at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
master: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...011&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(zebediah) -- (master)

1. e2-e4{2} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{4} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-c4{4} Ng8-f6{0}
4. Nf3-g5{22} d7-d5{334}
5. e4-d5{32} Nc6-b4{356}
6. d2-d4{308} Bc8-g4{528}
7. f2-f3{44} Bg4-f5{482}
8. Ke1-g1{302} Nf6-d5{362}
9. Nb1-c3{1088} b7-b5{0}
10. Bc4-b5{1468} c7-c6{616}
11. Bb5-a4{190} e5-d4{338}
12. Nc3-d5{222} Qd8-d5{474}
13. a2-a3{196} Bf8-d6{360}
14. Rf1-e1{136} Ke8-f8{758}
15. a3-b4{6} h7-h6{492}
16. Ng5-e4{220} Bd6-c7{692}
17. Ba4-b3{364} Qd5-d8{654}
18. Qd1-e2{608} Bc7-b6{458}
19. Kg1-h1{194} Kf8-g8{792}
20. Bc1-f4{946} Qd8-h4{560}
21. g2-g3{3580} Qh4-h3{0}
22. Ne4-f2{8} Qh3-h5{632}
23. g3-g4{70} Qh5-h4{670}
24. Bf4-g3{46} Qh4-g5{726}
25. g4-f5{6} Qg5-f5{354}
26. Nf2-e4{90} d4-d3{340}
27. c2-d3{50} Ra8-d8{360}
28. Ne4-d6{76} Rd8-d6{358}
29. Bg3-d6{8} Qf5-g6{656}
30. d3-d4{2784} Bb6-d4{388}
31. Ra1-d1{794} Qg6-d6{416}
32. Bb3-f7{70} Kg8-f7{384}
33. Rd1-d4{72} Qd6-f6{554}
34. Rd4-f4{898} Rh8-b8{502}
35. Rf4-f6{18} Kf7-f6{244}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
master: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...011&game=Chess

There was a Tactical Mistake Else Master Level could have fought even
longer.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

  #13  
Old May 7th 08, 10:40 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
help bot
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Posts: 6,547
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

On May 4, 3:23 am, Sanny wrote:


Here is the Game Rybka wins Easy Level in just 33 moves. Despite the
improvements suggested by you Rybka had the upper hand.


Whoa there! If you want to implement *my* advice,
then you need to remove Rybka's QN before firing up
the two engines. :D


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rybka : (White)
easy: (Black)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...930&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(Rybka ) -- (easy)

1. e2-e4{18} e7-e5{0}
2. Ng1-f3{16} Nb8-c6{0}
3. Bf1-b5{14} a7-a6{0}
4. Bb5-a4{14} d7-d6{0}
5. c2-c3{14} b7-b5{24}
6. Ba4-c2{16} Ng8-f6{32}
7. d2-d4{14} e5-d4{24}
8. c3-d4{14} Bc8-g4{22}
9. Ke1-g1{16} Nc6-b4{34}
10. Bc2-b3{18} Nf6-e4{24}
11. a2-a3{16} d6-d5{22}
12. a3-b4{20} c7-c6{54}
13. Qd1-c2{14} Qd8-c8{28}
14. Nf3-e5{18} Bg4-d7{24}
15. Nb1-c3{36} Ne4-f6{26}
16. Qc2-e2{18} Bd7-e6{32}
17. Nc3-a4{24} Ra8-b8{34}
18. Na4-c5{16} Bf8-c5{26}
19. b4-c5{16} Ke8-g8{30}
20. Bb3-c2{16} Rf8-d8{24}
21. Rf1-e1{20} Rb8-a8{56}
22. Qe2-d3{22} h7-h6{38}
23. Qd3-g3{24} Kg8-f8{44}
24. Qg3-f3{18} Be6-g4{20}
25. Qf3-f4{16} h6-h5{22}
26. h2-h3{24} Bg4-d7{34}
27. Qf4-f3{16} Bd7-e8{32}
28. Bc1-g5{20} Nf6-e4{28}
29. Ne5-g6{32} Kf8-g8{48}
30. Ng6-e7{16} Kg8-f8{22}
31. Ne7-c8{18} Ne4-g5{20}
32. Qf3-h5{14} Ng5-h3{24}
33. g2-h3{16} Kf8-g8{22}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So what are the moves that you think are wrong by GetClub?



Sanny, you cannot compete on even terms with
the Rybka program. After *decades* of work by
amateur and professional programmers -- some of
whom were very strong players -- Rybka has come
out on top, besting countless other chess engines.

You should be satisfied if you can remove all the
bugs, make the program play exactly in accordance
with the complex rules of chess, and improve the
Web site's overall look and feel. You don't need to
get to a strength of 3000+ like Rybka; especially
in view of your using a Java applet.

The above game was very well played by Rybka.
Although the thinking-time was probably *short*, it
is interesting to see how the program varied from
conventional human thinking in the Ruy Lopez
opening, and with success. Typically, the GetClub
program was all too willing to accept a couple of
pawns in exchange for a piece, but here the Rybka
tactical machine managed to save the b4-pawn,
while conducting an amazing display of attacking
skill against the un-castled enemy King.


-- help bot
  #14  
Old May 8th 08, 09:37 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
Martin Brown
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Posts: 483
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

Sanny wrote:
I am now going to play a game against Rybka and see if the improvement
is useful or not and post the game below for you to see how good it
plays against Rybka.


ROFL. Rybka has already grabbed it by the goolies at move 13.
AFAICT Getclub offered its goolies to be grabbed two moves before

Here is the Game Rybka wins Easy Level in just 33 moves. Despite the
improvements suggested by you Rybka had the upper hand.

But Still GetClub handled the position for quite sometime.


Hardly - it was losing quite badly from move 13 still in the opening.

Do you see that the program now do not take out the Queen aimlessly.

What else can be done to improve GetClub?


I keep noticing that very often a key developing move like in this case
10. ... Be7 is never played by Getclub (or Be2 for white). It would have
at least have had a sporting chance with that line.

Perhaps you could tweak the evaluation to give a 20cp bonus to moves
which permit castling to be played next (and also a bonus for castling).
And also a bonus for moving minor pieces off their home squares.

AFAICT the least bad continuation after the disastrous

10. ... Nxe4

This could be a bug - a 6 ply search should reveal why this isn't a
very good idea. And most engines prefer Be7 at a 1 ply search.

11. a3 d5
12. a3xN c6??

What is it playing at here? c6 is absolutely awful. Must be a BUG!

12. ... Bxb4 is obviously the least bad move by far!
Even the simplest material evaluation function would spot that move!

Do you still see something wrong in GetClubs play other than Tactics?


See above. It will gift its N for a P when it could have had 2P and
freedom to castle into relative safety as compensation. This is still
badly losing, but a lot better than the daft line it played.

10. Bc2-b3{18} Nf6-e4{24}
11. a2-a3{16} d6-d5{22}
12. a3-b4{20} c7-c6{54}


Terminal decline sets in here. Rybka is already winning by miles.

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
  #15  
Old May 9th 08, 06:19 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,337
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

That game was played by EASY level. Heres a game by Advance Level
where Zebediah gave lots of sacrifices and win the game in just 34
moves.

In this game Zebediah was a knight ahead but later sacrificed its
knight to bring a quick end.


Game Played between zebediah and advance at GetClub.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...056&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(zebediah) -- (advance)

1. d2-d4{8} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{2} c7-c5{0}
3. d4-d5{2} b7-b5{0}
4. f2-f3{22} e7-e5{0}
5. c4-b5{572} Bf8-d6{1506}
6. e2-e4{104} Nf6-e4{1978}
7. f3-e4{14} Qd8-h4{2114}
8. Ke1-e2{8} Qh4-e4{2258}
9. Ke2-f2{6} c5-c4{2254}
10. Bc1-e3{356} Qe4-f5{3408}
11. Qd1-f3{30} Qf5-c2{2238}
12. Nb1-d2{28} f7-f5{2234}
13. Qf3-e2{632} Bd6-b4{3888}
14. Qe2-c4{1112} Qc2-c4{1666}
15. Nd2-c4{256} f5-f4{2030}
16. Be3-d2{6} Bb4-d2{1590}
17. Nc4-d2{108} Ke8-g8{1284}
18. d5-d6{208} Bc8-b7{1758}
19. Bf1-c4{14} Kg8-h8{1396}
20. Ra1-e1{398} Rf8-e8{2144}
21. Ng1-f3{274} e5-e4{1730}
22. Nd2-e4{34} Re8-e4{2102}
23. Re1-e4{22} Bb7-e4{1412}
24. Rh1-e1{38} Be4-g6{1834}
25. Bc4-d5{5788} Nb8-c6{1806}
26. b5-c6{12} d7-c6{1816}
27. Nf3-e5{104} c6-d5{1324}
28. Ne5-g6{222} h7-g6{1616}
29. d6-d7{6} Ra8-g8{2486}
30. Re1-e8{14} Rg8-e8{2828}
31. Qd7-e8{Q}{14} Kh8-h7{1954}
32. Kf2-f3{4732} a7-a5{1770}
33. Kf3-f4{358} d5-d4{1808}
34. Kf4-g5{444} d4-d3{170}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game: http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...056&game=Chess

What were the wrong moves that Zebediah was able to win despite it was
Advance Level which thinks for 1/2 an hour?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html


  #16  
Old May 9th 08, 08:45 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
help bot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,547
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

On May 9, 1:19 am, Sanny wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...056&game=Chess
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

White -- Black
(zebediah) -- (advance)

1. d2-d4{8} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{2} c7-c5{0}
3. d4-d5{2} b7-b5{0}
4. f2-f3{22} e7-e5{0}
5. c4-b5{572} Bf8-d6{1506}
6. e2-e4{104} Nf6-e4{1978}
7. f3-e4{14} Qd8-h4{2114}
8. Ke1-e2{8} Qh4-e4{2258}
9. Ke2-f2{6} c5-c4{2254}
10. Bc1-e3{356} Qe4-f5{3408}
11. Qd1-f3{30} Qf5-c2{2238}
12. Nb1-d2{28} f7-f5{2234}
13. Qf3-e2{632} Bd6-b4{3888}
14. Qe2-c4{1112} Qc2-c4{1666}
15. Nd2-c4{256} f5-f4{2030}
16. Be3-d2{6} Bb4-d2{1590}
17. Nc4-d2{108} Ke8-g8{1284}
18. d5-d6{208} Bc8-b7{1758}
19. Bf1-c4{14} Kg8-h8{1396}
20. Ra1-e1{398} Rf8-e8{2144}
21. Ng1-f3{274} e5-e4{1730}
22. Nd2-e4{34} Re8-e4{2102}
23. Re1-e4{22} Bb7-e4{1412}
24. Rh1-e1{38} Be4-g6{1834}
25. Bc4-d5{5788} Nb8-c6{1806}
26. b5-c6{12} d7-c6{1816}
27. Nf3-e5{104} c6-d5{1324}
28. Ne5-g6{222} h7-g6{1616}
29. d6-d7{6} Ra8-g8{2486}
30. Re1-e8{14} Rg8-e8{2828}
31. Qd7-e8{Q}{14} Kh8-h7{1954}
32. Kf2-f3{4732} a7-a5{1770}
33. Kf3-f4{358} d5-d4{1808}
34. Kf4-g5{444} d4-d3{170}
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zebediah: (White)
advance: (Black)
Game Played at:http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html
View Recorded Game:http://www.getclub.com/playgame.php?...056&game=Chess

What were the wrong moves that Zebediah was able to win despite it was
Advance Level which thinks for 1/2 an hour?



First of all, the move 4. ... e5 does not fit in particularly
well with this system for Black. Generally speaking,
the idea is to /fianchetto/ the King's Bishop, and then
bear down on the Queen-side pawns-- not block the
center with Black's pawns.

Secondly, 5. ... Bd6 is a very clumsy move; the
Bishop looks like an overgrown pawn on that square,
blocked in by two of its fellow men.

Third, the sacrifice 6. ... Nxe4 loses decisive material,
presumably in exchange for the following meaningless
spite-checks. It's fairly simple, really: you need to get
(at least) THREE pawns for a Knight. And in order for
such an "attack" to succeed, you have to have some
other pieces developed, so they can jump into the
fracas quickly.

One more thing: it is quite obvious that Zebediah is
operating a chess engine; every game I have thus far
seen fits the computer style to a Tee. So you have
virtually no chance here. I wouldn't worry about Zeb
or Rybka winning; it's no biggie, really. In my
opinion, Zeb's program is not as good as Rybka, so
you could beat him by pulling a switcheroo... . ;D


One move that the GetClub program consistently
eschewed was the ultra-obvious ... O-O. The Black
Queen bounced all over the place delivering harm-
less spite-checks while White developed all of its
pieces, like normal chess programs do.


-- help bot


  #17  
Old May 9th 08, 10:14 AM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
Martin Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 483
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

Sanny wrote:

That game was played by EASY level. Heres a game by Advance Level
where Zebediah gave lots of sacrifices and win the game in just 34
moves.

In this game Zebediah was a knight ahead but later sacrificed its
knight to bring a quick end.


You mean that Getclub gifted him a knight and then played like a patzer.
This play is basically insane. There is something wrong with either the
evaluation function or the search algorithm.

1. d2-d4{8} Ng8-f6{0}
2. c2-c4{2} c7-c5{0}
3. d4-d5{2} b7-b5{0}
4. f2-f3{22} e7-e5{0}


4. ... e6 looks like the best bet here, but b4, d6 or amusingly going
against HelpBots earlier (and generally true) advice Qa5+ is quite
playable here! But e5 isn't all that bad.

5. c4-b5{572} Bf8-d6{1506}


Words fail me. It is hard to imagine how any half decent evaluation
function can see this as a good move even at ply 1. Blocking in your own
QP with a bishop is doing whites job for him.

Bd6 is Shredders 15th ranked choice of 26 moves so pick a move at random
and you have better than even chances of improving Getclubs play here.

5. ... d6 and black is pretty well on track for a strong game.
5. ... e4 looks interesting too (not sure I would risk it).


6. e2-e4{104} Nf6-e4{1978}


And now the final coup de grace. Suicide chess anyone ???

This clinches it! There is something fundamentally wrong with GetClub
chess. It is happy to give away a N for a P. This move is so bad I had
to extend the search window to find the move ranking which was 20th out
of 28. So a random choice of move would be better 75% of the time!!

Shredder so dislikes the position of the Bd6 that it plays Bc7 as first
preference, with O-O or a6 both close behind.

7. f3-e4{14} Qd8-h4{2114}
8. Ke1-e2{8} Qh4-e4{2258}
9. Ke2-f2{6} c5-c4{2254}


I reckon it is playing for these spite checks. P for N swap is useless.
And c4 is pretty bad. O-O or Qg6 would be playable.

12. Nb1-d2{28} f7-f5{2234}


O-O here is needed.

17. Nc4-d2{108} Ke8-g8{1284}


And O-O here is pretty well fatal. Why castle now when it doesn't help?
17. ... d6 consolidates a badly lost position.

31. Qd7-e8{Q}{14} Kh8-h7{1954}


This lousy half baked notation is another serious fault which you refuse
to do anything about. If you want to be taken seriously at least try to
implement some of the helpful suggestions for minor improvements.

It is a pawn when it moves to the 8th rank and becomes a queen.

31. d7-e8Q{Q}{14} Kh8-h7{1954}

Would do at a pinch. Otherwise engine annotation ignores the illegal
moves and the game after a promotion is complete gibberish.

Humans would also like to have castles shown as O-O not Ke1-g2 and
captures shown with the standard "x" capture notation Nf6xe4 not Nf6-e4
and mark checks with +.

What were the wrong moves that Zebediah was able to win despite it was
Advance Level which thinks for 1/2 an hour?


It doesn't matter how long it thinks.
What matters is how well and how deep!

It might be instructive to hobble a copy to play with a pure 1 ply
search and show the evaluation for all moves from a few test positions
then we can see what misconceptions it has about the position.

It would be handy if you could give an indication of how long it takes
your program to make a 1,2,3 etc ply search starting from the initial
board position then we can see how its search strategy scales.

The current crop of top flight engines can get one ply deeper with a
2-3x increase in computation time in most positions (this is a lot
better than the 4-6x you can get with a basic alpha-beta search).

Regards,
Martin Brown
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
  #18  
Old May 9th 08, 04:18 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
chipschap@gmail.com
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

helpbot said above:

"You may not realize it, but many of the more
recent complaints were not about your program
being /weak/; they were and always have been
about your gross exaggerations, including all
the claims to have removed alleged "bugs" or
to have made the program stronger than Rybka
and so forth."

I admit I have been one of the enthusiastic GitClub bashers, but the
statement above is completely true. The annoyance with GitClub is in
its failure to follow the rules of chess, in claiming draws as wins,
and all the rest. As far as playing strength, it seems easily a match
for the typical USCF class C player, and maybe it's even better than
that at the higher levels. Sanny would gain instant respect and much
more positive attention and feedback if he would drop the foolish
bragging, take GitClub for what it is, and continually work on
improvements while maintaining a decently modest posture. For a Java-
based program, we've got to admit that it really is not so bad at all,
and the path to it getting a lot better is clear and evident (just
fixing the problems with the King hiding out in the endgame, for
instance, would be an enormous strength improvement).

GitClub will never beat Rybka like carrots. But it can certainly make
a decent showing. Please, Sanny, skip the hype and spam and silliness
and just work on the product. It will pay dividends.
  #19  
Old May 9th 08, 05:57 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
Sanny
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,337
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

5. c4-b5{572} Bf8-d6{1506}

Words fail me. It is hard to imagine how any half decent evaluation
function can see this as a good move even at ply 1. Blocking in your own
QP with a bishop is doing whites job for him.


This move was made as it want to take out the Bishop and do Chastling.
I have given points for piece development and chastling. Bishop if
goes out at 5..... Bf8-e7 Then it would have played d6 and Blocked the
Bishop and it has to go back to f8.


Bd6 is Shredders 15th ranked choice of 26 moves so pick a move at random
and you have better than even chances of improving Getclubs play here.

5. ... d6 and black is pretty well on track for a strong game.
5. ... e4 looks interesting too (not sure I would risk it).

6. e2-e4{104} Nf6-e4{1978}


And now the final coup de grace. Suicide chess anyone ???


No it gives 2 points for killing 2 Center pawns and other 1 point for
white King Comming out unprotected. and Look at White position its
none of the pieces is developed.

Would do at a pinch. Otherwise engine annotation ignores the illegal
moves and the game after a promotion is complete gibberish.

Humans would also like to have castles shown as O-O not Ke1-g2 and
captures shown with the standard "x" capture notation Nf6xe4 not Nf6-e4
and mark checks with +.


Yes, I will see if that can be corrected. It is very difficult to
modify the code as changing one line of code brings new Bugs and then
a week is wasted in correcting the Bugs.

Its like when we fly Kites. When the threads messup how difficult it
is to correct the jumbeled threads.

This Program is so large that if I have to read whole program line by
line, it will take me full day. So its very difficult to go through
all the codes and correct them.

Bye
Sanny
  #20  
Old May 9th 08, 09:48 PM posted to rec.games.chess.analysis,rec.games.chess.misc,alt.chess,rec.games.chess.computer
help bot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,547
Default Help Bot Advice adopted.

On May 9, 12:57 pm, Sanny wrote:

5. c4-b5{572} Bf8-d6{1506}


Words fail me. It is hard to imagine how any half decent evaluation
function can see this as a good move even at ply 1. Blocking in your own
QP with a bishop is doing whites job for him.


This move was made as it want to take out the Bishop and do Chastling.


Ah, but it never did "do chastling" until it was far
too late. It appears that spite-checks are heavily
favored over both piece-development and castling.


6. e2-e4{104} Nf6-e4{1978}


And now the final coup de grace. Suicide chess anyone ???


No it gives 2 points for killing 2 Center pawns and other 1 point for
white King Comming out unprotected.


Unprotected? Note that even if the King were
"protected" by ten different men, White would
gain nothing; this is because the game ends if
the King is checkmated (i.e. to be captured),
so there is no "recapture" after the fact.

Even if the GetClub program calculated that
it would eventually get, say, three pawns for
the Knight, it would have only done so by
checking and eating pawns while the opponent
developed several pieces. This leaves two
problems in its wake: the Queen can either be
trapped or harried while developing even more
pieces; and normal development never happens
because of the constant need to defend the
Queen against such threats. Besides which,
there is no gain from getting three pawns for a
Knight; in order to come out ahead, you need
to bite one of the plastic pawns in two, then
play so that you end up with three, *plus* half
of the tasteless plastic pawn for the Knight.
Watch out for lead weights! They can be hell
to bite through. Better still, only sac' a piece
if you get four pawns in the deal.


and Look at White position its
none of the pieces is developed.


White spent time building up a wall of pawns
in the center. Apart from a sacrifice, as in this
game, the pieces can be developed later,
behind the protection of those pawns, which
act as a shield.

In closed positions, /time/ is not quite the
same as it is in open positions. So long as
there is no significant interaction between the
two armies, maneuvering is feasible.

In this opening (the Benko* Gambit), Black
does best if he /fianchettos/ the King's Bishop,
so it can work in conjunction with the Queen
and Rooks to attack on the Queenside. The
move ...e5 blocks the long diagonal, and so
it is not usually combined with the ...b5 pawn
gambit. If you want to block the center, it is
better to (still) /fianchetto/ the King's Bishop,
and then play for ...f5, as in the King's Indian
Defense. In any case, Black will end up
playing pawn-to-d6.


This Program is so large that if I have to read whole program line by
line, it will take me full day. So its very difficult to go through
all the codes and correct them.


Many years ago, a fellow came from out
of nowhere with a chess program that was
stronger than all the others. It had a nice
GUI, nicer chess pieces than the number
two program, and most curious of all, it fit
on a single floppy disk as it was quite
small in addition to searching faster.

Unless you have lots of text in your chess
program (i.e. "this subroutine gives a bonus
for 'chastling', and causes every level to
think extra-long if the opponent's handle =
'help bot' "), this may well be an indication
of redundancy or poor organization.


-- help bot







 



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