On 19 Jun 2005 07:26:16 -0700, "Mark Houlsby"
wrote:

You must be new here.

Welcome :-)

Sloan is a moron and a troll. That's free advice.

Mark Houlsby

You must be new here.

Mark Houlsby is a rated 1295 player who can only dream of achieveing
the strength you already have.

Sam Sloan

Dream on, Sloan.

Try to dream about stoves, if you can.

Mark Houlsby

Jud McCranie wrote:
" wrote:
Sam is correct on this matter. You have to have the innate brain
wiring to reach GM level.

And anyone with that innate brain wiring will start playing the game
much earlier - in their teens at the latest.

Arguably, it's the other way round. Starting playing early gets your
brain wired the right way. That's not to say that you can't become a
strong player starting later but it's much harder.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Slimy Addictive Boss (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ a middle manager but you can never
put it down and it's covered in goo!

Excellent points.

Mark

Jud McCranie wrote:
" wrote:
Sam is correct on this matter. You have to
have the innate brain wiring to reach GM level.

And anyone with that innate brain wiring will start
playing the game much earlier - in their teens at
the latest.

As far as I can tell, FM Yoshiharu Habu (FIDE 2323), who was
born on 27 September 1970 in Japan, did *not* begin to play
chess until he was at least 20 years old (*after* his 'teens
at the latest', to quote Jud McCranie). Yoshiharu Habu's
first chess tournament was played in 2001.

As far as I know, Yoshiharu Habu's regarded as the world's
greatest player in shogi. So would Jud McCranie like to
claim that there's something lacking in Yoshiharu Habu's
'innate brain wiring' with regard to games like chess?

Will Yoshiharu Habu ever become a GM in chess?

--Nick

"Mark Houlsby is a rated 1295 player who can only dream of achieveing
the strength you already have. (Sam Sloan)
========
For some reason I thought Houlsby was a strong UK master.

Old Haasie

On 19 Jun 2005 15:28:25 -0700, "Nick"
wrote:

As far as I know, Yoshiharu Habu's regarded as the world's
greatest player in shogi. So would Jud McCranie like to
claim that there's something lacking in Yoshiharu Habu's
'innate brain wiring' with regard to games like chess?

Maybe he's the "exception that proves the rule".

However, at
http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/new...abuonhabu.html

he is quotes as saying "My name is Yoshiharu Habu. I was born in
Tokorozawa, Saitama (near Tokyo), September 27, 1970. I became a
professional Shogi player at the age of 15 ... "

Needless to say, it is hard to be a professional player at 15 if you
don't start playing until you're 20...

---
Replace you know what by j to email

Maybe he's the "exception that proves the rule".

However, at
http://www.msoworld.com/mindzi=ADne/...abuonhabu.html


he is quotes as saying "My name is Yoshiharu Habu. I was born in
Tokorozawa, Saitama (near Tokyo), September 27, 1970. I became a
professional Shogi player at the age of 15 ... "


Needless to say, it is hard to be a professional player at 15 if you
don't start playing until you're 20...


Good god you're an illiterate ****wit, McCranie.

Habu became a professional SHOGI player at age 15.

He didn't START to play CHESS until he was 20.

His FIDE rating is 2323 and he's an FM.

You need to LEARN TO READ before doing ANYTHING ELSE.

On 2005-06-19, samsloan wrote:
phillip wrote:
I am 32 and I have been playing chess for about 2 years. I play all the
time but I just can't get past my measly 1400 rating, It seem like anyone
who attained GM status started when they where really young.

Am I hopeless? Is it to late for me, age wise?

Are the GM born with the chess talent like a great musician is born with a
musical talent?

For example - If I composed music no matter how hard I try I will never be
as great as Mozart; he was born with it. I feel like the Salieri of chess.

Is that how chess works? Should I just accept the fact that I will never be
a Fischer or Botvinnik?

Anyone feel the same way?

Yes. You are right. If you learned chess at age 30, you will never be a
grandmaster. You will never even be a master. Nobody has ever done it.

You might make expert if you try really hard however.

Sam Sloan


It'll depend on native talent, quality of instruction, and long-term level
of commitment. Old friend Nate Resika didn't begin playng until he was in
his late 20s, and went as far as FM. He had some talent, got good
instructors, and I've never seen anybody work harder or longer at anything
for years on end than he did at playing chess.

If Philip can take time out from real life (for, oh, 8 years, say) to put
up that kind of effort, maybe he can make NM. Lacking that, you must be
right that Expert or more probably "A" will be his limit. He's pragmatic
enough to realize that Botvinnik or Fischer simply aren't going to happen.
Nor GM in general nor IM.

I remember reading an article by the late Ken Smith, where he describes
how, as a 17-year-old novice, he managed to meet one of his idols,
Savielly Tartakover, and told him of his burning desire to become a chess
master. "Whatever on earth for?" Tartakover is reported to have replied.
If such an answer is appropriate for a 17-year-old, how much more so must
it be for someone already in their 30s and up to their eyeballs in a real
adult life and career?

On 20 Jun 2005 07:47:21 -0700, "Bruce Leverett"
wrote:

Think of attaining chess mastery like getting a college degree or
advanced degree. Do you have the time, strength, cash, and patience
for that kind of endeavor?

On the other hand, if you'd like to get better at chess than you are
now, you certainly can, and you ought to have fun doing it. Time to
hit the books. But if you're already 1400, don't waste your time on
"chess for beginners". Study the games of the masters.

Bruce

I am told by a person who is a rated chess master and who also has a
Ph.D. degree in Math that the amount of knowledge and effort to get a
Ph.D. degree is about the same as the amount it takes to get you up to
1500 in chess.

I was surprised at this but them he said to count all the people who
have Ph..D. degrees in math and compare them to the number who have
1500 ratings in chess. You will find that more have a Ph.D. degree in
math.

Also, count the length of time it takes. In 3-5 years a person can get
a Ph.D. drgree in math. It takes much longer to reach 1500 in chess.

Also, everyone who tries eventually gets a Ph.D. degree in Math. Most
never make it to 1500 in chess.

So, you need to set your sites lower. Studying all those books will
not make you a grandmaster. You should try to become an 1800 player,
which is a more realistic goal.

Sam Sloan