Today Kasparov won against Bacrot on the corus 2006 tournament. At the
end Bacrot resigned. I analyzed the position using Fritz 9 and it
rated the last position around +20.0 for white. I have to agree that I
consider that white was wining in the position but it didn't looked
that huge advantage for me. Can you please help me understand why is
this position so good for white?

You can find the .pgn of the game he

http://www.coruschess.com/year/2006/pgn/round3.pgn

Today Kasparov won against Bacrot on the corus 2006 tournament.

You meant surely Topalov not Kasparov ;-)

At the
end Bacrot resigned. I analyzed the position using Fritz 9 and it
rated the last position around +20.0 for white. I have to agree that I
consider that white was wining in the position but it didn't looked
that huge advantage for me. Can you please help me understand why is
this position so good for white?


At first glance the pos wasn`t so dangerous for black however Topalov knows
how to win pawn endings - see his last victory over Kasparov ;-)

Yes my mistake! I meant Topalov!

On 16 Jan 2006 12:41:06 -0800, "Artificer"
wrote:

Today Kasparov won against Bacrot on the corus 2006 tournament. At the
end Bacrot resigned. I analyzed the position using Fritz 9 and it
rated the last position around +20.0 for white. I have to agree that I
consider that white was wining in the position but it didn't looked
that huge advantage for me. Can you please help me understand why is
this position so good for white?

It looks like an easy win for white to me. For one thing, with
White's last move, his a and c pawns support each other - if the black
king attacks one, the other advances, and the king can't capture
otherwise the other pawn would promote. So they could be left alone
while the white king goes and wipes out all of the black pawns. But
there are even more direct ways of winning.
---
Replace you know what by j to email

"Artificer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Today Kasparov won against Bacrot on the corus 2006 tournament. At the
end Bacrot resigned. I analyzed the position using Fritz 9 and it
rated the last position around +20.0 for white. I have to agree that I
consider that white was wining in the position but it didn't looked
that huge advantage for me. Can you please help me understand why is
this position so good for white?

Corus 2006 R3 Topalov vs Bacrot:

White to move, and it is easy to guarantee queening one of the passed
pawns before black can possibly queen.

That probably relates roughly to a +9 score the way computers seem to
calculate.

Assuming black continues to play something near to reasonable play, in
the hope that white loses on time, white can force a second passed pawn
to queen if necessary - still without giving black any prospect of a
promotion. Two queens and a pawn ( +9 +9 +1) = +19 and black does not
have any prospect better than forcing the white pawn on to take a pawn
giving black a passed pawn. However there is no realistic chance of
queening before being mated, and the black pawns are effectively
worthless.
So white's position is about +19 and you can safely assume that Fritz
evaluated +20 because it is no better at simple maths than the average
university graduate.

--
Regards - Jim Hill

"Artificer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Today Kasparov won against Bacrot on the corus 2006 tournament. At the
end Bacrot resigned. I analyzed the position using Fritz 9 and it
rated the last position around +20.0 for white. I have to agree that I
consider that white was wining in the position but it didn't looked
that huge advantage for me. Can you please help me understand why is
this position so good for white?

Corus 2006 R3 Topalov vs Bacrot:

White to move, and it is easy to guarantee queening one of the passed
pawns before black can possibly queen.

That probably relates roughly to a +9 score the way computers seem to
calculate.

Assuming black continues to play something near to reasonable play, in
the hope that white loses on time, white can force a second passed pawn
to queen if necessary - still without giving black any prospect of a
promotion. Two queens and a pawn ( +9 +9 +1) = +19 and black does not
have any prospect better than forcing the white pawn on to take a pawn
giving black a passed pawn. However there is no realistic chance of
queening before being mated, and the black pawns are effectively
worthless.
So white's position is about +19 and you can safely assume that Fritz
evaluated +20 because it is no better at simple maths than the average
university graduate.

--
Regards - Jim Hill

Jim Hill wrote:
So white's position is about +19 and you can safely assume that Fritz
evaluated +20 because it is no better at simple maths than the average
university graduate.

While Fritz is one of the more materialistic chess-playing programs,
there is more involved in its evaluation of a position than material.
In any given position, the evaluation could derive from development,
space, king safety, pawn structure, mobility and/or various other
factors. Recently, going over some old McDonnell-Labourdonnais games, I
found positions where material was virtually equal, with no prospect of
imminent material gain on the horizon, yet Fritz8's evaluation would be
around +2.50 to +3.50, i.e. as if someone was a piece up.

"Taylor Kingston" wrote:

Jim Hill wrote:
So white's position is about +19 and you can safely assume that Fritz
evaluated +20 because it is no better at simple maths than the average
university graduate.

While Fritz is one of the more materialistic chess-playing programs,
there is more involved in its evaluation of a position than material.
In any given position, the evaluation could derive from development,
space, king safety, pawn structure, mobility and/or various other
factors. Recently, going over some old McDonnell-Labourdonnais games, I
found positions where material was virtually equal, with no prospect of
imminent material gain on the horizon, yet Fritz8's evaluation would be
around +2.50 to +3.50, i.e. as if someone was a piece up.

You are of course entirely correct, and I am sure you realised that the
part of my post you quoted was a "tongue in cheek" comment.

The particular game referred to by the OP was certainly a won position
for white.
Bacrot knew that more clearly than I, you or Fritz did, so he resigned.

Development, space, king safety, pawn structure, etc
as you described had no real bearing in this position, and it amused me
that a trivial +19 materialistic calculation was actually so close to
the Fritz +20 evaluation.
Presumably Fritz was not given long enough to discover an iron-cast
minimal move forced mate.

Fact is:
any justifiable numerical evaluation gives

+N

where N is any very large number you care to name,
and Bacrot was right to resign.

--
Regards - Jim Hill

Artificer wrote:
Today Kasparov won against Bacrot on the corus 2006 tournament.

Hehe. No wonder Topalov's doing so well if Kasparov's making the moves
for him. :-)


At the end Bacrot resigned. I analyzed the position using Fritz 9 and
it rated the last position around +20.0 for white. I have to agree that
I consider that white was wining in the position but it didn't looked
that huge advantage for me. Can you please help me understand why is
this position so good for white?

Because White can promote first. 44... h3!? 45.gxh3 f5 45.a6! Kb8
(otherwise, the a-pawn promotes -- with mate unless Black has moved his
king) 46.Kd7! and now Black can't stop the c-pawn promoting.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Evil Broken Game (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ family board game but it doesn't work
and it's genuinely evil!

Jim Hill wrote:
Development, space, king safety, pawn structure, etc as you described
had no real bearing in this position

Actually, that's not quite true: the activity of the White king is
significant.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Incredible Wine (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ vintage Beaujolais but it'll blow
your mind!