In article ,
"John J." wrote:

How about learning to read Harold.

I never called her stupid.


I know that. But telling someone they look stupid is just a roundabout
way of calling them stupid.

The problem is not only with the selection process, it's with the player.

And with the misogynist who makes a big deal out of it.

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson

In article ,
David Richerby wrote:

John J. wrote:
I certainly wouldn't continue to play a game against a GM after I
lost a piece. You know as well as I do that to do so is embarassing.

We already know that. Stating it repeatedly doesn't help to make the
world a better place. Just drop it already.



And although it's considered to be impolite to play on in a lost
position, a player has the right to do so, and I think it's ridiculous
when people get all huffy and insulted when it happens. It's pretty
funny when they get so huffy and upset at the insult of being forced to
play out a won position that they get swindled. Not that that's likely
to happen with a GM vs. a 1700 player, but the best thing the GM can do
in that situation is to just play and put the game away.

Of course, no one is going to fault the GM if he doesn't want to chat
nicely about the game afterward.

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson

Once again, to me a player is a player, male or female. Maybe I'm old school
but it's very rude to continue playing with absolutely no chance of a draw
or a win.

This is the US Championship. I expect better, even from a B player. I guess
some on here would rather patronize the player.


"Harold Buck" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"John J." wrote:

How about learning to read Harold.

I never called her stupid.


I know that. But telling someone they look stupid is just a roundabout
way of calling them stupid.

The problem is not only with the selection process, it's with the player.

And with the misogynist who makes a big deal out of it.

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson

In article ,
"John J." wrote:

I certainly wouldn't continue to play a game against a GM after I lost a
piece. You know as well as I do that to do so is embarassing. I would say
the same things if it were a man.

And yet, plenty of players of international strength have done so.

With minimal research, I could find a dozen examples of world-class
players playing on down large amounts of material or forcing their
opponent to mate them.

If Ms. Cottrell plays like this normally, then she should be censured.
On the other hand, given that the only information we have is the game
score, we have no way of really judging. Maybe Mr. Schneider was
obnoxious to his opponent before the game was decided, or maybe he
encouraged her to play it out because it took almost no effort from him
and he thought she would learn from it.

We really don't know, so we should refrain from judgement.

As for whether or not she should have accepted the invitation to play in
the tournament, let's be serious: how many people here would refuse the
opportunity to get in several games against players on international
strength?

-Ron

Makes sense. I would think that the majority of games where strong players
keep playing a losing position is time trouble? Just speculation.

I had the opportunity to watch an entire strong international tournament
long time ago and I even prepared the bullitins and not once did I see a
player keep on playing in a lost position unless there was time trouble.
Maybe times have changed....


"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"John J." wrote:

I certainly wouldn't continue to play a game against a GM after I lost a
piece. You know as well as I do that to do so is embarassing. I would say
the same things if it were a man.

And yet, plenty of players of international strength have done so.

With minimal research, I could find a dozen examples of world-class
players playing on down large amounts of material or forcing their
opponent to mate them.

If Ms. Cottrell plays like this normally, then she should be censured.
On the other hand, given that the only information we have is the game
score, we have no way of really judging. Maybe Mr. Schneider was
obnoxious to his opponent before the game was decided, or maybe he
encouraged her to play it out because it took almost no effort from him
and he thought she would learn from it.

We really don't know, so we should refrain from judgement.

As for whether or not she should have accepted the invitation to play in
the tournament, let's be serious: how many people here would refuse the
opportunity to get in several games against players on international
strength?

-Ron

In article ,
"John J." wrote:

I had the opportunity to watch an entire strong international tournament
long time ago and I even prepared the bullitins and not once did I see a
player keep on playing in a lost position unless there was time trouble.
Maybe times have changed....

I don't think it's common - but one of my chess books (I can't remember
which one at the moment, and don't have time to search) has a whole
series of examples of masters playing on beyond all reason.

I agree that the game under discussion is an extreme example, but I
think we should withhold judgement given what we don't know about the
circumstances.

The primary fault here is with the rules which put a B-player in the
championships.

-Ron

I agree. Just for the record that same player played on today also down a
rook and a piece until she was checkmated.

Heck, I would have called it a day much sooner and hit the local pub.


"Ron" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"John J." wrote:

I had the opportunity to watch an entire strong international tournament
long time ago and I even prepared the bullitins and not once did I see a
player keep on playing in a lost position unless there was time trouble.
Maybe times have changed....

I don't think it's common - but one of my chess books (I can't remember
which one at the moment, and don't have time to search) has a whole
series of examples of masters playing on beyond all reason.

I agree that the game under discussion is an extreme example, but I
think we should withhold judgement given what we don't know about the
circumstances.

The primary fault here is with the rules which put a B-player in the
championships.

-Ron

In article ,
"John J." wrote:

I agree. Just for the record that same player played on today also down a
rook and a piece until she was checkmated.



Maybe it cost her a bundle to get there and she's trying to bring down
the total cost per move played? :-)

--Harold Buck


"Hubris always wins in the end. The Greeks taught us that."

-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck wrote:
In article ,
"John J." wrote:

how to look real stupid by playing with a rook down against a GM in the US
Championship.


How about "Gee, there's a problem with the selection process for the US
Championship" instead of calling someone stupid in a public forum?
Considering who you're calling stupid and how you call hear a "poor
little girl" later, it makes you look like a misogynist. And a jerk.

--Harold Buck




As a matter of fact, the other day in the corridor at work, I heard one
of our people say to a visitor that some other person was stupid. I
told my boss I thought this was something that should be mentioned to
the front office. Such things should not happen.

David Ames

Nick wrote:
David Richerby wrote:
At least IM Schneider (not actually a GM yet, even given the 2500+
rating)

That must be his USCF rating. IM Dmitry Schneider is rated 2486
FIDE.

Good point -- the rating I quoted was from the US Championship webpage
so, of course, the rating is USCF, not FIDE.


probably playing an IM for the first time in a serious game.

Kelly Cottrell-Finegold is married to IM Ben Finegold.

That I did not know.


I suspect that she's played many games with an IM, though I cannot
say how 'serious' they were to him.

By `serious', I meant `under tournament conditions' as I'm sure you
are aware. You sound like you're trying to cast some sort of
aspersion, though I've no idea what.


Dave.



--
David Richerby Adult Cheese (TM): it's like a brick
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ of cheese that you won't want the
children to see!