Paula Lemming wrote:
"Paul Rubin" Also, the Berlin Wall fell in November 1989, not in 1990.

And his point was that until the Berlin Wall fell, the Cold War was VERY
active.

East Germany was one of the late socialistic countries to open its
borders. When the Wall fell, Poland had already a democratically elected
government, Hungary was officially going this route as well. East
Germans had switched to the west during summer 1989 in the thousands,
without any intervention by the Soviet Union. Soviet leaders were not
even considering to help the GDR to keep its status. The Cold War was
more or less over with the end of the Breshnev doctrine in 1988. With
this declaration, the Soviet Union gave up its strict standing against
democracy in its area of influence, and therefore the strategy of Cold
War simply didn't make any sense any more. Of course, things were not
100% sure, it was always possible, that others might have taken over
control in the USSR, going back the way. Several hardliners wanted
Gorbachev to use force to stop the Monday Demonstrations in East
Germany. But in 1989 Cold War was definitely not very active any more,
and in 1991 it was all over. With Cold War still being strong, the
peaceful fall of the Wall would simply not have been possible, its
practical end was a prerequisite for what happened on November 9th, 1989
in Berlin.

Greetings,
Ralf

Ralf Callenberg wrote:
Paula Lemming wrote:

But even then, a DEFECTOR was a defector. Just because this woman was a low
priority and did not get shot or persecuted should not change the history of
defections from the Soviet Union.

At this time the Cold War was over, the Iron Curtain lifted. Several
Eastern European countries were already holding democratic elections,
had opened their borders to the west. All this happened with explicit
allowance from the Soviet leaders. To describe her leaving of the Soviet
Union as an heroic act is inappropiriate, it was more a burocratic act.
The details tell it: ordinary citizens were not shot in 1989 or were
about to be sent to Sibiria just because they wanted to leave the Soviet
Union.

Greetings,
Ralf

You seem to be forgetting that this happened in 1988, not in 1989.
There is a tremendous difference. In 1999 the Berlin Wall fell. Also,
to say that this woman was unimportant is not true. Chess was very
important in the USSR and she had been a World Championship candidate.
I cannot think of a more high-profile defection than Akhmilovskaya. The
few male ballet dancers who defected did so while on tour to the US.
They took no risks. Her daring escape certainly punched a hole in the
Iron Curtain, and may even have brought it down. Who can say? Perhaps
if Akhmilovskaya had not defected, the Iron Curtain would not have
fallen.

Sam Sloan

You seem to be forgetting that this happened in 1988, not in 1989.

No, I didn't. But the world in 1988 was already a very different one
from 1984, before Gorbachev became leader of the Soviet Union.

Her daring escape certainly punched a hole in the
Iron Curtain, and may even have brought it down. Who can say? Perhaps
if Akhmilovskaya had not defected, the Iron Curtain would not have
fallen.

This is ridicilous and without any sense of proportions. The Iron
Curtain came down because the Soviet Union was nearly economically
collapsed and Gorbachev changed the way this country was run, in order
to prevent the complete collapse of the USSR. He officially gave all
East European countries the freedom to chose to switch away from
socialism. The democratic forces in the different countries grabbed
this opportunity, which might have been only a small gap in the course
of history. The Iron Curtain was torn down in Moscow by a leader, who
didn't seek refuge in violence, in Gdansk by people who stood up
against their government, in Leipzig and Dresden, where people flooded
the streets each monday in peaceful demonstrations, by Hungarian
officials, who let countless East-Germans pass their borders into the
west, which massively destablized the GDR; and by Hungarians who after
their uprising 30 years earlier, which had cost tens of thousands
lives, boldly took the step to a democratic government. Who cares about
a chess player crossing borders because of a romance? It is just a
small footnote in an appendix.

Greetings,
Ralf

"Ralf Callenberg" Who cares about a chess player crossing borders because
of a romance? It is just a small footnote in an appendix.


It does not have to be important to be a DEFECTION. Lots of mediocre
artists, writers, and ballet stars (not just the top two) DEFECTED, and
there is probably little or no record of it anywhere; but it was still
called a DEFECTION.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Donaldson_(chess_player)

WIKI****PEDIA calls it a DEFECTION.

Communist Stooge wrote:

[...] It is by the definition of her nation, the former USSR.
By their definition, her [Akhilovskaya's] emigration was
illegal and therefore a Defection.

What's your point?

(In the light of the Helsinki agreement
what USSR was doing was illegal).

Wlod

Paula Lemming wrote:
"Ralf Callenberg" Who cares about a chess player crossing borders because
of a romance? It is just a small footnote in an appendix.


It does not have to be important to be a DEFECTION.

My remark addressed Sam's claim, that this incident might have been
important for the fall of the Iron Curtain.

but it was still
called a DEFECTION.

Defection or not, in 1988 it wasn't anymore an act for which you might
got shot or sent to Sibiria.

Greetings,
Ralf

Paula Lemming wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Donaldson_(chess_player)

WIKI****PEDIA calls it a DEFECTION.

Yes, because it was mainly written by Sam Sloan.

Greetings,
Ralf

samsloan wrote:

Perhaps if Akhmilovskaya had not defected,
the Iron Curtain would not have fallen.

Sam Sloan

:-)))))))...)))))))

Sam, start a "Chess National Enquirer"
and stay away from encyclopedias! OK?


Wlod

11:11, 25 March 2006 Sam Korn
(→Current requests - rejected: ... Phr vs. Sam Sloan ...)