A Chess forum. ChessBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ChessBanter forum » Chess Newsgroups » rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Rampant Incompetence At FICS



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 8th 06, 07:32 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
Paul Jordan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Rampant Incompetence At FICS

In my experience, FICS provides an unpleasant, abusive environment for
those seeking an online chess experience, and its administrators
seriously aggravate the problem. A copy of correspondence follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To: , ,



To Whom It May Concern,

I recently began using FICS. On Monday, August 7, 2006 I was playing a
game with a registered user, "superber", when the user in question
began sending maniacal and abusive text messages. Many of the messages
were not fully intelligible, since they were apparently laden with
profanity which your system replaced with characters such as "[email protected]#$!!",
but there was enough non-obscene material "e.g., "Hahahahaha, $#%! in
your face, loser" to identify the text as clearly abusive.

I then sent my own brief queries to channels 4 and 53, Guest_Help and
Guest_Chat, noting that I was playing an abusive opponent and asking
how to, first, filter out this user's text messages so that I did not
have to read them, and second, how to report this user to system
administrators.

The few replies I received were not only nonresponsive, but also
provocative. For example, I was told that if I "read all of the help
files" that "most" of the answers to these questions would be found. I
replied that, while true, reading all of the help files was an
inefficient way to get answers to a couple of basic and well-defined
questions. I also noted that it seemed odd that, with so many users
online and being reached in these two channels, nobody had a sincere,
useful answer to sincere, basic questions. I was then told that there
was no promise of "sincere, useful answers". I was also told that if I
wanted the answers to these questions that I should register, and also
that if I wanted to report abuse by a registered FICS user ("superber")
I must register.

I pointed out that, due to the fact that my Internet service comes
through a university library [public access, no email account], the
terms of FICS do not permit me to register. I also pointed out that
FICS did not want to gain a reputation as a service that refused to
police its community of registered users, simply because the victim of
abuse was a guest rather than registered, as this would discourage new
users surveying the system as guests. I then received a private text
message from another registered user saying: "You are the most stupid
guy here, you smart ass."

At about this point, I found that my connection had been severed by
something termed "superintellect". When I attempted to login to FICS
as a guest again, I found that all access to FICS had been blocked from
my location.

The location in question is the Fletcher Library on the Arizona State
University (West) campus. There are about 50 computers at this site,
and now not one of them, used by anyone, can access FICS.

This response is inappropriate, considering the fact that *I* was the
victim of the abuse, and merely expressed frustration with a queer
inability to get two simple questions addressed, as well as the sudden
multiplication of irrationally hostile accounts at your site once I had
complained about the original malefactor "superber". The response
would be disproportional even if I had committed a serious abuse of
your site, as "superber" did (and I did not). Is the registered user
"superber" still a member in good standing of your site? Because now
*I*, who actually want to use the site for its designated purpose of
playing chess, have no access.

Please rectify this situation by: (a) Censuring or terminating the
abusive registered account "superber"; (b) unblocking access to your
site from Fletcher Library computers; (c) carefully evaluating the list
of those with access to powerful administrative tools which permit such
blocks, as well as reviewing the procedures in place for using such
tools, to determine if the requirements now imposed for the use of such
tools are sufficient to prevent their abuse.

At the moment, I am satisfied to deal with this matter privately with
the administrators of FICS. If my concerns and complaints are not
addressed in a timely and satisfactory manner, I shall take the issue,
starting with this email, to the public forums of the Internet.


Sincerely,

Paul Jordan


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I was, of course, prepared to give them considerably more time than one
day to respond. However, after receiving the following perverse reply
from
last night, and no other replies from FICS, I have
decided that FICS needs a kick in the pants to wake it up:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:31:26 UT
From:

To: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators

You being the victim of abuse does not mean you have to be abusive
in public channels. Have a look at "help abuse".

abuse(*)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

To which I responded as follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To:
, ,



To Whom it May Concern,

(1) You have not established that I was "abusive in public channels";
(2) Being the victim of abuse does not mean that in responding to abuse
with intolerance and contempt, I am myself being "abusive": accurate
criticisms of abuse do not themselves constitute "abuse" in any
reasonable sense of the term applying in the present context. All of
MY comments we (a) justified, and (b) accurate.
(3) I cannot read the "help abuse" file, or any other FICS file,
because as I have already pointed out, your abusive administrators have
blocked all guest access to FICS from the 50 or so computers at the
library I use for Internet access.

So far, the response from FICS to my complaints (your response being
the sole one received to date) does NOT impress me.

Sincerely,

Paul Jordan


[copy of quoted correspondence deleted]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I might add that, every time I have logged onto FICS (about half a
dozen times), I have seen (in public channels) various kinds of coarse
and abusive remarks/conversations/flame-wars, seeming to go on and on.
There was never the slightest indication that FICS administrators were
concerned about, or were taking any action in response to, those
accounts and their comments. However, inasmuch as they were not
directed at me, I had simply ignored them as best as I was able to.

Note that, as much as I would like to register at FICS, (or rather,
would have liked to, before this happened), I cannot, because my email
service is Yahoo, and the provider of Internet access is a university
library which does not give email accounts to users who are members of
the general public rather than students or faculty.

Until FICS admits and rectifies its errors, the service is merely
pretentious in advancing claims of being an improvement on
broader-based public Internet chess sites (like Yahoo). Indeed, Yahoo
administrators, though lackadaisical about online abuse, at least do
not seriously compound that abuse, as FICS does, by blaming the victim
and locking out a whole public site simply because the true comments of
that victim proved embarrassingly on-target.


Paul Jordan


  #2  
Old August 8th 06, 09:06 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
David Richerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,598
Default Rampant Incompetence At FICS

Paul Jordan wrote:
In my experience, FICS provides an unpleasant, abusive environment
for those seeking an online chess experience, and its administrators
seriously aggravate the problem.


In my experience, people on FICS are extremely helpful. I've never
used the service as a guest, though, so I can't comment on the guest
help channels. I'm sorry to hear that a registered user was sending
abusive messages to you -- that has happened to me only rarely in
something like 1500 games.


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:31:26 UT
From:
To: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators

You being the victim of abuse does not mean you have to be abusive
in public channels.


You know, the first thing that crossed my mind when you explained what
had happened was, `I bet he was abusive back.'


Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To:
, ,


To Whom it May Concern,

(1) You have not established that I was "abusive in public
channels";


The admins have access to the channel logs. I imagine they read them
before replying to your mail.


(2) Being the victim of abuse does not mean that in responding to
abuse with intolerance and contempt, I am myself being "abusive"


`Responding with intolerance and contempt' sounds like a euphemism for
being abusive or, at least, rude to me. Why do you expect people to
help you when you're being rude to them?


Dave.

--
David Richerby Happy Sword (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ razor-sharp blade that makes your
troubles melt away!
  #3  
Old August 9th 06, 12:54 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 264
Default Rampant Incompetence At FICS

Paul Jordan wrote:
In my experience, FICS provides an unpleasant, abusive environment for
those seeking an online chess experience, and its administrators
seriously aggravate the problem. A copy of correspondence follows:


I've played over 100 games on FICS and encountered only one abusive
player and one cheater. In both cases, the admins took action within a
week.

I then sent my own brief queries to channels 4 and 53, Guest_Help and
Guest_Chat, noting that I was playing an abusive opponent and asking


Use channel 1 for help.

The few replies I received were not only nonresponsive, but also
provocative. For example, I was told that if I "read all of the help
files" that "most" of the answers to these questions would be found. I
replied that, while true, reading all of the help files was an


On Channel 1 they would almost certainly have told you to type "help
abuse", which explains what's abuse and how to report abusive users.

I also pointed out that FICS did not want to gain a reputation as a service
that refused to police its community of registered users, simply because
the victim of abuse was a guest rather than registered, as this would
discourage new users surveying the system as guests.


That is like walking around McDonalds and telling random customers that
your coffee is too hot. Use channel 1 to speak to administrators or
service representatives.

You being the victim of abuse does not mean you have to be abusive
in public channels. Have a look at "help abuse".

abuse(*)


(3) I cannot read the "help abuse" file


It's hard to judge. As you've never read "help abuse", you may even be
violating the rules without realizing it. They're posted here on the
web:

http://www.freechess.org/Help/HelpFiles/abuse.html

I was, of course, prepared to give them considerably more time than one
day to respond. However, after receiving the following perverse reply

because as I have already pointed out, your abusive administrators have

the sole one received to date) does NOT impress me.

the service is merely pretentious in advancing claims of being an improvement


The admins are unpaid volunteers.

If you want to have a good time on FICS, how about something simple.
Read the abuse pages, then send a diplomatic note to the admins:

"Now I've read over your abuse pages and I realize **making public
accusations against another player** violates the rules. If you restore
my access, I'll be careful about that in the future. However, users
xxxx was using profanity which upset me and is definitely considered
abuse per your own pages. Imagine if a child was watching. Could you
please do something about this? User yyyy also found user xxxx to be
abusive."

Be sure to add him to your noplay and ignore lists. Use !abuse in your
formula, going forward. Good luck, and sorry you had a rough
experience.

  #4  
Old August 9th 06, 04:52 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
michael adams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 304
Default Rampant Incompetence At FICS

Paul Jordan wrote:

OMG - this is the worse daymare (nightmare) imaginable. I managed to
digest about (2/3) two-thirds of Paul's lamentable screed before going
to post. Pls. lads, fully read Paul's posting which I've top-posted on
(I know). FICS _is_ something horrific & ghastly relative to ex ICC'rs.
We don't like you FICS - y'hear!..






In my experience, FICS provides an unpleasant, abusive environment for
those seeking an online chess experience, and its administrators
seriously aggravate the problem. A copy of correspondence follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To: , ,


To Whom It May Concern,

I recently began using FICS. On Monday, August 7, 2006 I was playing a
game with a registered user, "superber", when the user in question
began sending maniacal and abusive text messages. Many of the messages
were not fully intelligible, since they were apparently laden with
profanity which your system replaced with characters such as "[email protected]#$!!",
but there was enough non-obscene material "e.g., "Hahahahaha, $#%! in
your face, loser" to identify the text as clearly abusive.

I then sent my own brief queries to channels 4 and 53, Guest_Help and
Guest_Chat, noting that I was playing an abusive opponent and asking
how to, first, filter out this user's text messages so that I did not
have to read them, and second, how to report this user to system
administrators.

The few replies I received were not only nonresponsive, but also
provocative. For example, I was told that if I "read all of the help
files" that "most" of the answers to these questions would be found. I
replied that, while true, reading all of the help files was an
inefficient way to get answers to a couple of basic and well-defined
questions. I also noted that it seemed odd that, with so many users
online and being reached in these two channels, nobody had a sincere,
useful answer to sincere, basic questions. I was then told that there
was no promise of "sincere, useful answers". I was also told that if I
wanted the answers to these questions that I should register, and also
that if I wanted to report abuse by a registered FICS user ("superber")
I must register.

I pointed out that, due to the fact that my Internet service comes
through a university library [public access, no email account], the
terms of FICS do not permit me to register. I also pointed out that
FICS did not want to gain a reputation as a service that refused to
police its community of registered users, simply because the victim of
abuse was a guest rather than registered, as this would discourage new
users surveying the system as guests. I then received a private text
message from another registered user saying: "You are the most stupid
guy here, you smart ass."

At about this point, I found that my connection had been severed by
something termed "superintellect". When I attempted to login to FICS
as a guest again, I found that all access to FICS had been blocked from
my location.

The location in question is the Fletcher Library on the Arizona State
University (West) campus. There are about 50 computers at this site,
and now not one of them, used by anyone, can access FICS.

This response is inappropriate, considering the fact that *I* was the
victim of the abuse, and merely expressed frustration with a queer
inability to get two simple questions addressed, as well as the sudden
multiplication of irrationally hostile accounts at your site once I had
complained about the original malefactor "superber". The response
would be disproportional even if I had committed a serious abuse of
your site, as "superber" did (and I did not). Is the registered user
"superber" still a member in good standing of your site? Because now
*I*, who actually want to use the site for its designated purpose of
playing chess, have no access.

Please rectify this situation by: (a) Censuring or terminating the
abusive registered account "superber"; (b) unblocking access to your
site from Fletcher Library computers; (c) carefully evaluating the list
of those with access to powerful administrative tools which permit such
blocks, as well as reviewing the procedures in place for using such
tools, to determine if the requirements now imposed for the use of such
tools are sufficient to prevent their abuse.

At the moment, I am satisfied to deal with this matter privately with
the administrators of FICS. If my concerns and complaints are not
addressed in a timely and satisfactory manner, I shall take the issue,
starting with this email, to the public forums of the Internet.

Sincerely,

Paul Jordan


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I was, of course, prepared to give them considerably more time than one
day to respond. However, after receiving the following perverse reply
from
last night, and no other replies from FICS, I have
decided that FICS needs a kick in the pants to wake it up:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:31:26 UT
From:

To: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators

You being the victim of abuse does not mean you have to be abusive
in public channels. Have a look at "help abuse".

abuse(*)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

To which I responded as follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To:
, ,


To Whom it May Concern,

(1) You have not established that I was "abusive in public channels";
(2) Being the victim of abuse does not mean that in responding to abuse
with intolerance and contempt, I am myself being "abusive": accurate
criticisms of abuse do not themselves constitute "abuse" in any
reasonable sense of the term applying in the present context. All of
MY comments we (a) justified, and (b) accurate.
(3) I cannot read the "help abuse" file, or any other FICS file,
because as I have already pointed out, your abusive administrators have
blocked all guest access to FICS from the 50 or so computers at the
library I use for Internet access.

So far, the response from FICS to my complaints (your response being
the sole one received to date) does NOT impress me.

Sincerely,

Paul Jordan


[copy of quoted correspondence deleted]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I might add that, every time I have logged onto FICS (about half a
dozen times), I have seen (in public channels) various kinds of coarse
and abusive remarks/conversations/flame-wars, seeming to go on and on.
There was never the slightest indication that FICS administrators were
concerned about, or were taking any action in response to, those
accounts and their comments. However, inasmuch as they were not
directed at me, I had simply ignored them as best as I was able to.

Note that, as much as I would like to register at FICS, (or rather,
would have liked to, before this happened), I cannot, because my email
service is Yahoo, and the provider of Internet access is a university
library which does not give email accounts to users who are members of
the general public rather than students or faculty.

Until FICS admits and rectifies its errors, the service is merely
pretentious in advancing claims of being an improvement on
broader-based public Internet chess sites (like Yahoo). Indeed, Yahoo
administrators, though lackadaisical about online abuse, at least do
not seriously compound that abuse, as FICS does, by blaming the victim
and locking out a whole public site simply because the true comments of
that victim proved embarrassingly on-target.


Paul Jordan

  #5  
Old August 14th 06, 11:57 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
Websurfer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default Rampant Incompetence At FICS

Well, as they say, you get what you pay for. ICC isn't free, but the site is
top notch. No better place to play chess.

"Paul Jordan" wrote in message
oups.com...
In my experience, FICS provides an unpleasant, abusive environment for
those seeking an online chess experience, and its administrators
seriously aggravate the problem. A copy of correspondence follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To: , ,



To Whom It May Concern,

I recently began using FICS. On Monday, August 7, 2006 I was playing a
game with a registered user, "superber", when the user in question
began sending maniacal and abusive text messages. Many of the messages
were not fully intelligible, since they were apparently laden with
profanity which your system replaced with characters such as "[email protected]#$!!",
but there was enough non-obscene material "e.g., "Hahahahaha, $#%! in
your face, loser" to identify the text as clearly abusive.

I then sent my own brief queries to channels 4 and 53, Guest_Help and
Guest_Chat, noting that I was playing an abusive opponent and asking
how to, first, filter out this user's text messages so that I did not
have to read them, and second, how to report this user to system
administrators.

The few replies I received were not only nonresponsive, but also
provocative. For example, I was told that if I "read all of the help
files" that "most" of the answers to these questions would be found. I
replied that, while true, reading all of the help files was an
inefficient way to get answers to a couple of basic and well-defined
questions. I also noted that it seemed odd that, with so many users
online and being reached in these two channels, nobody had a sincere,
useful answer to sincere, basic questions. I was then told that there
was no promise of "sincere, useful answers". I was also told that if I
wanted the answers to these questions that I should register, and also
that if I wanted to report abuse by a registered FICS user ("superber")
I must register.

I pointed out that, due to the fact that my Internet service comes
through a university library [public access, no email account], the
terms of FICS do not permit me to register. I also pointed out that
FICS did not want to gain a reputation as a service that refused to
police its community of registered users, simply because the victim of
abuse was a guest rather than registered, as this would discourage new
users surveying the system as guests. I then received a private text
message from another registered user saying: "You are the most stupid
guy here, you smart ass."

At about this point, I found that my connection had been severed by
something termed "superintellect". When I attempted to login to FICS
as a guest again, I found that all access to FICS had been blocked from
my location.

The location in question is the Fletcher Library on the Arizona State
University (West) campus. There are about 50 computers at this site,
and now not one of them, used by anyone, can access FICS.

This response is inappropriate, considering the fact that *I* was the
victim of the abuse, and merely expressed frustration with a queer
inability to get two simple questions addressed, as well as the sudden
multiplication of irrationally hostile accounts at your site once I had
complained about the original malefactor "superber". The response
would be disproportional even if I had committed a serious abuse of
your site, as "superber" did (and I did not). Is the registered user
"superber" still a member in good standing of your site? Because now
*I*, who actually want to use the site for its designated purpose of
playing chess, have no access.

Please rectify this situation by: (a) Censuring or terminating the
abusive registered account "superber"; (b) unblocking access to your
site from Fletcher Library computers; (c) carefully evaluating the list
of those with access to powerful administrative tools which permit such
blocks, as well as reviewing the procedures in place for using such
tools, to determine if the requirements now imposed for the use of such
tools are sufficient to prevent their abuse.

At the moment, I am satisfied to deal with this matter privately with
the administrators of FICS. If my concerns and complaints are not
addressed in a timely and satisfactory manner, I shall take the issue,
starting with this email, to the public forums of the Internet.


Sincerely,

Paul Jordan


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I was, of course, prepared to give them considerably more time than one
day to respond. However, after receiving the following perverse reply
from
last night, and no other replies from FICS, I have
decided that FICS needs a kick in the pants to wake it up:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:31:26 UT
From:

To: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators

You being the victim of abuse does not mean you have to be abusive
in public channels. Have a look at "help abuse".

abuse(*)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

To which I responded as follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul Jordan"
Subject: Abuse by registered users and administrators
To:
, ,



To Whom it May Concern,

(1) You have not established that I was "abusive in public channels";
(2) Being the victim of abuse does not mean that in responding to abuse
with intolerance and contempt, I am myself being "abusive": accurate
criticisms of abuse do not themselves constitute "abuse" in any
reasonable sense of the term applying in the present context. All of
MY comments we (a) justified, and (b) accurate.
(3) I cannot read the "help abuse" file, or any other FICS file,
because as I have already pointed out, your abusive administrators have
blocked all guest access to FICS from the 50 or so computers at the
library I use for Internet access.

So far, the response from FICS to my complaints (your response being
the sole one received to date) does NOT impress me.

Sincerely,

Paul Jordan


[copy of quoted correspondence deleted]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I might add that, every time I have logged onto FICS (about half a
dozen times), I have seen (in public channels) various kinds of coarse
and abusive remarks/conversations/flame-wars, seeming to go on and on.
There was never the slightest indication that FICS administrators were
concerned about, or were taking any action in response to, those
accounts and their comments. However, inasmuch as they were not
directed at me, I had simply ignored them as best as I was able to.

Note that, as much as I would like to register at FICS, (or rather,
would have liked to, before this happened), I cannot, because my email
service is Yahoo, and the provider of Internet access is a university
library which does not give email accounts to users who are members of
the general public rather than students or faculty.

Until FICS admits and rectifies its errors, the service is merely
pretentious in advancing claims of being an improvement on
broader-based public Internet chess sites (like Yahoo). Indeed, Yahoo
administrators, though lackadaisical about online abuse, at least do
not seriously compound that abuse, as FICS does, by blaming the victim
and locking out a whole public site simply because the true comments of
that victim proved embarrassingly on-target.


Paul Jordan




  #6  
Old August 22nd 06, 12:34 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
David Richerby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,598
Default Rampant Incompetence At FICS

Websurfer wrote:
Well, as they say, you get what you pay for.


They also say that the best things in life are free. There's little
point in quoting proverbs as there's almost always a contradictory one
that someone can snipe back with.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Strange Cheese (TM): it's like a lump
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ of cheese but it's totally weird!
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FICS Karl Krebs rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 3 August 4th 06 07:07 AM
What's the story with FICS? I can't connect to them Eliyahu rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 3 July 28th 06 12:50 PM
Has FICS server burnt out? [email protected] rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General) 1 July 19th 06 04:12 PM
how do i join a tournament on fics? pete johnson rec.games.chess.computer (Computer Chess) 2 July 1st 06 04:36 PM
Won my first game on FICS! [email protected] rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis) 0 May 12th 06 12:04 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2017 ChessBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.