THE FACTS

Edmondson tried to hire GM Benko as Fischer's second at Mallorca in
1970 but Fischer said that he preferred to work with GM Evans.



Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Jan 1, 8:55 pm, "help bot" wrote:
Taylor Kingston wrote:
My Google search failed to unearth any contrary evidence,
so, like Sam Sloan, I grabbed the ball and ran with it.

Helpbot has found his ideal. Actually, my ideal would be to have a perfect, infallible
source from which to extract perfect, infallible information,
which answers -- perfectly -- the precise questions asked
by the original poster, and then goes on to add valuable
insights to them. (Hey -- you brought it up, not me.)

The truth is, I thought Google would be more than sufficient
in view of the vast archives, but instead I got a swing and a
miss.

Here is one of the responses which prompted me to do
this search in the first place, for it lacked anything of real
substance ...

On a question about Pal Benko, you regard the testimony of Benko
himself as not "of real substance"? A strange attitude.

... and seemed to imply that the idea of Benko
having received any money was way off base:

It makes no implication either way. It simply does not mention money.
Try reading it again:

"Checking "Pal Benko: My Life, Games and Compositions," I don't see
anything to substantiate the claim of $1500. That Benko did cede his
place to Fischer is acknowledged at least twice in his autobiography,
on page xiii by Susan Polgar, and by Benko himself on page 426. He says
"I was sure Bobby would advance to the Candidates Matches and beat the
Russians. My own career was nearing its end, so why shouldn't I give
Fischer a chance to embrace his fate?" But I see no mention of payment
of any kind.
The claim of $1500 in RvF seems to come from Petrosian. It seems
unlikely he would know firsthand, and no real source is given. It's
sometimes said that Benko was given his regular endgame column in Chess
Life as a reward, but I've never seen any real verification of that
story either."
---------

That reply was written by someone who, like me, lacked
sufficient resources (or perhaps, time) to come up with a definitive
answer to the poster's questions and instead took a shot in the
dark, missing.

No, the OP asked specifically what Benko's autobiography said on this
matter:

"Is this substantiated anywhere else, for example, in Benko's recent
autobiography(which I do not own, and have not read)?"

I answered that question, because I happen to have the book. Far from
being a "shot in the dark," it was the only authoritative answer
possible to that question. It does not settle the question of what if
any payment Benko received, but it does settle the question of what his
autobiography says.

Benko himself says nothing about this Edmondson arrangement in his
autobiography.

Are you denying that EE made the arrangements for
GM Fischer's participation in the 1970 interzonal?

I am denying neither that, nor the fact that the moon orbits the
earth. The "arrangement" my sentence referred to was the alleged 1970
attempt by Edmondson to hire Benko as Fischer's second. As with the
$1500, Benko says nothing about it. As far as second work was
concerned, his autobiography mentions only dealing directly with
Fischer in 1971, not with Edmondson in 1970.
Benko may or may not have been paid $1500. He may or may not have
been asked by Edmondson to work for Fischer in 1970. Both scenarios
seem quite plausible. Unfortunately, whatever the facts, Benko's book
is not a confirming source on these two questions.

And we know this because...?

Regards,

zdrakec

wrote:
THE FACTS

Edmondson tried to hire GM Benko as Fischer's second at Mallorca in
1970 but Fischer said that he preferred to work with GM Evans.

Taylor Kingston wrote:

On a question about Pal Benko, you regard the testimony of Benko
himself as not "of real substance"? A strange attitude.

An even stranger "interpretation".

IMO, the explanation as to why you found nothing about
the money in GM Benko's book is very simple: he would
like people to think of him as having done this purely out
of the goodness of his heart. A payoff makes him look
a bit irrelevant, so far as the world championships are
concerned (and with perfect hindsight, it looks like he
sold his spot rather cheaply). I could hardly count the
number of times this same question has been covered in
the pages of Chess Life, and am frankly amazed that you
would even question the payment. (Then again, after
reading EE's insistence that GM Evans was out of the
question, I bought it when I should have known better!)


... and seemed to imply that the idea of Benko
having received any money was way off base:

It makes no implication either way. It simply does not mention money.
Try reading it again:

"Checking "Pal Benko: My Life, Games and Compositions," I don't see
anything to substantiate the claim of $1500.

Unfortunately, you just quoted yourself mentioning the
money. LOL! Obviously, I never claimed that Pal Benko
either did or did not mention the money -- that is your own
strawman. For the record, I have never even seen that book.

Clearly, my comments referred to *your* posting itself, and
not to any book. Yes, I blame *you* for the comments you
wrote, which seemed to imply that perhaps GM Petrosian
was mistaken, and that had there been any transfer of
money, it would have been mentioned in GM Benko's book.
To me, these are way off base non-sequiturs. Just Google:
Benko Fischer $1500, instead of relying upon what is *not*
there to determine the facts.

That Benko did cede his
place to Fischer is acknowledged at least twice in his autobiography,
on page xiii by Susan Polgar, and by Benko himself on page 426. He says
"I was sure Bobby would advance to the Candidates Matches and beat the
Russians. My own career was nearing its end, so why shouldn't I give
Fischer a chance to embrace his fate?"

Like I said, the explanation can be found in what Mr. Benko
wishes people to think about him. Here we see that he wishes
people to think he somehow "knew" that Fischer would not
only complete the cycle to the end, but win the title -- what were
the odds? Were it not for Ed Edmondson's many interventions,
I expect Fischer would very likely have faltered at the very first
step, by either not showing up to play, or else withdrawing at
the first sign of trouble. IMO, GM Benko's comments are at best,
fishy. There is no "fate" -- not even for R J Fischer!


But I see no mention of payment of any kind.


The claim of $1500 in RvF seems to come from Petrosian. It seems
unlikely he would know firsthand, and no real source is given.

Perhaps he read it in Chess Life? Larry Evans has
covered this question again and again.

It's
sometimes said that Benko was given his regular endgame column in Chess
Life as a reward, but I've never seen any real verification of that
story either."

Here's another possibility: GM Benko may have asked
for a column in CL, and been "given" the one that others
didn't want: boring endgames. I'm sure I have read about
this at some point in Chess Life, but I can't recall. It is
possible that some former endgame columnist died or
retired, leaving this spot open.


That reply was written by someone who, like me, lacked
sufficient resources (or perhaps, time) to come up with a definitive
answer to the poster's questions and instead took a shot in the
dark, missing.

No, the OP asked specifically what Benko's autobiography said on this
matter:

No, he asked the question, then suggested the
autobiography as a possible *source* for the answer.

IMO, reading one such book for answers to a
question which ought to be easily found on the
internet makes little sense. What if you search
through the whole thing, and come up empty-
handed? It's much faster to use Google or go to,
say, Wikipedia.org.


"Is this substantiated anywhere else, for example, in Benko's recent
autobiography(which I do not own, and have not read)?"

Sharp readers will notice the part about "anywhere else",
though there are many here who do not fit that description.
;D

I answered that question, because I happen to have the book. Far from
being a "shot in the dark," it was the only authoritative answer
possible to that question.

Nonsense; you are obtusely (and deliberately, no doubt)
ignoring the fact that the question itself had nothing to do
with the book, which in fact was only mentioned as a
possible *resource*. I could list dozens of books which
are more likely to give the answer to the reader's question
than an autobiography by GM Benko.



It does not settle the question of what if
any payment Benko received, but it does settle the question of what his
autobiography says.

Yes, but if the autobiography fails to mention the
payment, then the poster who suggested this as an
information resource has simply blundered. Again,
apart from Google, there is Wikipedia, and I should
probably mention Chess Life, though it could be a bit
tedious to dredge through it when you have the lightning-
fast internet.


Benko himself says nothing about this Edmondson arrangement in his
autobiography.

Okay, so GM Benko is a "fate" man. Nobody pushed
GM Fischer. "Fate" made him play all those good moves!
(Fate never seemed to intervene on my behalf -- that's
favoritism!)


Are you denying that EE made the arrangements for
GM Fischer's participation in the 1970 interzonal?

I am denying neither that, nor the fact that the moon orbits the
earth.

This must be some kind of trick; no moon I know of
orbits dirt, rocks, or any other sort of earth, except
as a whole, as a planet.

The "arrangement" my sentence referred to was the alleged 1970
attempt by Edmondson to hire Benko as Fischer's second.

I see.

As with the
$1500, Benko says nothing about it.

So you should admit this was not a good suggestion, that
a broader source would be appropriate.


As far as second work was
concerned, his autobiography mentions only dealing directly with
Fischer in 1971, not with Edmondson in 1970.

Clearly, Ed Edmonson's insistence that there was no
possibility of getting GM Evans was mistaken. Somehow
or other, the money was raised. I am disappointed in EE.
But I really don't think (shut up, hecklers!) that GM Benko's
failure to mention *anything* can be relied upon as indicating
he received no payment. I have already explained why.

Benko may or may not have been paid $1500. He may or may not have
been asked by Edmondson to work for Fischer in 1970. Both scenarios
seem quite plausible. Unfortunately, whatever the facts, Benko's book
is not a confirming source on these two questions.

Nor was it a particularly good suggestion as a source for
determining the facts on this matter. It is even possible
that Pal Benko regrets having accepted *any* money, since
this implies a motive other than that of charity and stepping
out of Fate's way.

-- help bot

wrote:

THE FACTS

Edmondson tried to hire GM Benko as Fischer's second at Mallorca in
1970 but Fischer said that he preferred to work with GM Evans.

According to a letter written by Ed Edmondson himself to
GM Fischer, GM Evans wanted too much money and getting
him was out of the question. (Obviously, either GM Evans
agreed to work for less, or -- more likely -- somebody came
up with more money in order to appease GM Fischer.)

------------

The original question seemed to inquire whether the
amount paid to GM Benko was $1500, and if in fact this
was paid to him, and in addition, who was it that made
the payment. All this is getting lost in the shuffle. Here
is my latest best shot at the mysterious answers:

Yes, GM Benko was paid for giving up his spot.

The amount was $1500.

It was made by the USCF/Ed Edmondson.

The payment was made sometime in September or October, 1970.

Please note that the best source for a definitive date would *not*
be Pal Benko's autobiography, but something written close to the
time of the actual events. I would suggest Chess Life.

-- help bot

Thanks for all the input. You have indeed addressed the topics raised
in my original post, with the exception of: is the claim that I cited
(from "Russians versus Fischer") substantiated anywhere else?

So, for example, you state that GM Benko accepted $1500 to give up his
spot, was paid by Ed Edmondson under the aegis of the USCF, in
September or October of 1970. I'm assuming that you are correct, but
the gist of my question is: how do you know these facts?

Best regards,
zdrakec

help bot wrote:
wrote:

THE FACTS

Edmondson tried to hire GM Benko as Fischer's second at Mallorca in
1970 but Fischer said that he preferred to work with GM Evans.

According to a letter written by Ed Edmondson himself to
GM Fischer, GM Evans wanted too much money and getting
him was out of the question. (Obviously, either GM Evans
agreed to work for less, or -- more likely -- somebody came
up with more money in order to appease GM Fischer.)

------------

The original question seemed to inquire whether the
amount paid to GM Benko was $1500, and if in fact this
was paid to him, and in addition, who was it that made
the payment. All this is getting lost in the shuffle. Here
is my latest best shot at the mysterious answers:

Yes, GM Benko was paid for giving up his spot.

The amount was $1500.

It was made by the USCF/Ed Edmondson.

The payment was made sometime in September or October, 1970.

Please note that the best source for a definitive date would *not*
be Pal Benko's autobiography, but something written close to the
time of the actual events. I would suggest Chess Life.

-- help bot

zdrakec wrote:

Thanks for all the input. You have indeed addressed the topics raised
in my original post, with the exception of: is the claim that I cited
(from "Russians versus Fischer") substantiated anywhere else?

So, for example, you state that GM Benko accepted $1500 to give up his
spot, was paid by Ed Edmondson under the aegis of the USCF, in
September or October of 1970. I'm assuming that you are correct, but
the gist of my question is: how do you know these facts?


Well, when it comes to knowing the facts, there is only one
definitive source: Sam Sloan. (Just kidding!)

I know these facts because they have been recounted again
and again in the pages of Chess Life, for instance. Granted,
that was many years ago (except that Larry Evans tends to
keep answering the same questions no matter how old the
topic). My Google "research" turned up the letter by Ed
Edmondson, which insisted that GM Benko was the only
possible second, which was flat wrong. Sorry about that.

This is not the first time I have seen this book, Russians
vs. Fischer, mentioned here. If you really need to know
about this payment, why not go through some old issues
of Chess Life, or just contact someone directly and ask?
Here's an example of how it's done: You mentioned the
book's title, but I don't yet know who is the author -- can
you tell us, please? (If I do a Google search, I might turn
up a letter which insists it can be none other than Fred
Flintstone....) :D


-- help bot