Ian Burton wrote:
"David Richerby" wrote:
I've never seen the term `miniature' used to mean anything other
than a game of 25 or fewer moves.

I've never seen it used to mean anything but games under 21 moves --
20 or less.

Hehe. D'you think the universe will end in a flash of paradox if we
both meet? :-)


Dave.

--
David Richerby Enormous Addictive Atom Bomb (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a weapon of mass destruction
but you can never put it down and
it's huge!

On Apr 12, 8:02 am, David Richerby
wrote:
EJAY wrote:
For the sake of this discussion you may need to specify the number
of moves to define a miniature.25 moves or less?

I've never seen the term `miniature' used to mean anything other than
a game of 25 or fewer moves.

Actually, it has been used to mean different things.
For games against weak players (often as not, those
who are later referred to as "anon" or "unknown") the
cutoff is usually well under 25 moves, because
otherwise there would be far too many examples.

There is also the term micro-miniature, which might
mean ten moves or less, or it could mean fifteen
moves or less. For GM vs. GM games, it could even
be used to describe decisive games of 20 moves or
less, as distinguished from games lasting up to 25
moves. Perhaps the creators of Chessbase have a
"definitive" number, but chess book authors have not
always agreed.

-- help bot

I added over 400 grandmaster miniatures on my web site at
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...7378/chess.htm (Grandmaster
chess miniatures) or at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall...8/gm_minis.pgn
(PGN format). It looks like Alekhine and Marshall have the most.

On Apr 12, 4:45 pm,
On Apr 12, 6:04 pm,



On 12 Apr, 20:43,


EJAY wrote:
For the sake of this discussion you may
need to specify the number of moves
to define a miniature. 25 moves or less?

"David Richerby" wrote:
I've never seen the term `miniature' used to mean
anything other than a game of 25 or fewer moves.

"Ian Burton" wrote:
I've never seen it used to mean anything
but games under 21 moves -- 20 or less.

"Mark Houlsby" wrote:
25 or fewer is common. IIRC it was the limit used
by Julius du Mont for his classic text 200 Miniature
Games (the copy I read was borrowed from the library).

It varies.

In their biography of Najdorf, Lissowski and Mikhalchisin
repeatedly describe 26-move Najdorf wins as miniatures.
FWIW decisive and = 25 moves are the criteria which
built (and continue to build) my miniatures database (...).

"Taylor Kingston" wrote:
Chernev's book adhered to a maximum of 24 moves.

*********

Hey guys, can you spell: k a r p o v ? In his
(miniature :-) monograph with chess miniatures
by world champions, his limit is 30 (thirty) moves.
Did Karpov ever beat a GM under 20 moves in a
tournament or match play?

He has provided twice more miniatures by Tal
than for each of the other champions.

Somehow Karpov has managed to avoid
Kasparov's games (except for notes).
I used to have Karpov's book but no more.

Regards,

Wlod
for

Wlodzimierz Holsztynski (Wlod) wrote:
Hey guys, can you spell: k a r p o v ? In his
(miniature :-) monograph with chess miniatures
by world champions, his limit is 30 (thirty) moves.
Did Karpov ever beat a GM under 20 moves in a
tournament or match play?

Does 20 moves exactly count?

Karpov-Beliavsky, Linares 1994: 1-0 (20)
Portisch-Karpov, Biel 1996: 0-1 (20)

I can't find anything under 20 moves, though. But, he lost to
Korchnoi in 19 in the 1974 candidates' final and to Christiansen in
12 at Wijk aan Zee (1993).

If you meant under thirty (Karpov's criterion) then there are plenty.


Dave.

[Event "Linares GM tournamen"]
[Site "Linares ESP"]
[Date "1994.??.??"]
[Round "13"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Karpov, Anatoly"]
[Black "Beliavsky, Alexander"]
[ECO "E05"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 e6 4. g3 Be7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. O-O dxc4 7. Qc2
a6 8. a4 Bd7 9. Qxc4 Bc6 10. Bg5 Bd5 11. Qd3 c5 12. Nc3 cxd4 13. Nxd5
Qxd5 14. h4 Nbd7 15. Nxd4 Qd6 16. Rfd1 Nc5 17. Qc4 Rfd8 18. b4 Nxa4
19. Qb3 Qb6 20. e3 1-0


[Event "Biel"]
[Site "Biel SWI"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[Round "8"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Portisch, Lajos"]
[Black "Karpov, Anatoly"]
[ECO "E12"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. a3 Bb7 5. Nc3 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. Qc2
Nxc3 8. Qxc3 Nd7 9. Bg5 Be7 10. Bxe7 Kxe7 11. e3 Rc8 12. Be2 c5 13.
dxc5 Rxc5 14. Qxg7 Rg8 15. Qxh7 Rxg2 16. Qh4+ Nf6 17. Rd1 Qc7 18. Nd4
a5 19. Nb5 Rxb5 20. Bxb5 Rg4 0-1

--
David Richerby Sadistic Whisky (TM): it's like a
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