"Sanny" schreef in bericht
oups.com...
I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's better
than
the rest.

Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
Chess games arround.

So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.

As you yourself hopefully understand: it's not saying a lot if your program
beats another program (or beats you for that matter).
Telling apart selfproclaimed top-programmers from actual ones is what
matters, and you seem to have failed there by not producing an worthy
opponent in your 'strongest game' statement.

On Aug 22, 12:05 pm, Sanny wrote:

4. Bg5 Qb6

Uh oh. Something went wrong with the programs'
parameters; now they are playing like idiots. :(

Why was Bg5 a wrong Move? Could you explain what was the better move
and Why Bg5 is wrong. So that so that in future it do not move Bg5.


Okay. After the moves:

1.d4 Nf6

2.c4 g6

3.Nc3 c5

...we are heading toward the Benoni or some other
Indian defense, and White can either take on c5, defend
it with Nf3, or push on past, taking a space advantage in
the center.

But 4.Bg5 allows Black to take on d4, whereupon things
start to go awry; unless White wants an imbalanced
position at any cost, as after Bxf6 exf6, Qxd4 Nc6, Qe3+,
he would do better to not defend the d-pawn with his Queen,
because the Queen can get bounced around by any other
piece (except a King or another Queen).

Black can also just play ...Bg7, where White has
committed his QB to g5 very, very early. What's so
special about this particular square for the QB? Well,
I suspect it nets a bonus score for the aggressive pin.

But let's have a look at Black's reply, which also
seems computer-bad:

4.Bg5 Qb6

Black is hoping to grab the b2-pawn, but this is a
very risky strategy. "Never take the QN-pawn with
the Queen", a famous quotation reads. Again, the
early Queen foray most often leads to trouble, and
it comes from jousting with much lesser men, a
strategy which can needlessly lead to severe
wounds. (Does a bear try to run off a pack of
hungry wolves who have stolen his kill? No,
because even though he can, the risk of injury is
very high.) In all likelihood, the Black Queen will
soon find herself moving to a new address, again.

But let me look a bit deeper this time, now that I
have a chess board to look at and am not just
winging it blindfold.

5.Nf3 Qxb2

6.Nb5

White is well ahead in piece development, but he
must deal with a few tactical problems. The central
issue though, is Black's indisposed Queen and the
immediate threat of a fork at c7.

... Bh6??

This move just gives away a piece for no reason.
Even blindfold, I could see that. Could this be a
case of operator error, or a software malfunction?

7.Bxh6 e5

Another giveaway. Look Sanny, nobody is going
to believe that your program can beat Jester, or
whatever it is called, based on such moves as
these. It smacks of you making stuff up, or a
whole series of malfunctions.

8.dxe5 Ng4

9.Bg7 Rg8

The Black Queen was trapped, but these moves
just let her out of the box in pursuit of undeveloped
junk in some distant corner.

10.Qb1

One of the worst moves on the board. Apart from
the self-mates, like e3?? and e4??, this move lets
the Queen escape AND hangs the Bishop on g7,
in one fell swoop -- quite an achievement!

Enough analysis for now. Let me just say that
my blindfold comments picked on the wrong moves,
since in comparison to this middle game, the
opening was played magnificently.


-- help bot















What do you think is the rating of Improved Game?

Here is my Ratings.

Beginner: 1500
Easy: 1600
Normal: 1700
Master: 1800

I wish above ratings are correct.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at:http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html

On Aug 22, 12:14 pm, Sanny wrote:

Bobby Fisher is same as Taylor Kingston.

!?!?!


He is Second best player at
GetClub after you. IM Innes have not played much games at GetClub So I
can't say much about him.

Nomorechess Still holds the Crown. Chrisf and Zebediah may Challege
your Crown As they are the most Aggresive Players I have seen. They
are driving against the wind.

When Taylor kingston and you used to play Chess at GetClub.com It was
easy to increase rating You used to get +10 for winning a weak
beginner Player.

In fact, it seems that those lucky ones who showed
up first had the best of things. As every level began
with a rating of 1000 and was thereafter driven down,
the ones who played rated games *first* gained by far
the most "easy" rating points, not only from the
program, but from anyone they played who had
played it as well.

When I began playing a lot of games, most levels
not only were already driven into the dirt by Taylor
Kingston (among others) having clobbered them
repeatedly, but in addition, your "improvements" had
a significant impact on the strength of the program.

In fact, when the program seemed to me to have
made some real improvement (not just claimed),
this is when most of the old timers stopped playing
rated games, or else switched IDs. Later on, the
"improvements" went in the wrong direction, or else
went in random directions, like a bubble floating in
the wind.

Really, you can't continually make drastic changes
to a chess program and have meaningful ratings. In
addition, you should never have started all the levels
at the same rating -- that is ludicrous. If you must
make drastic changes to the program, its rating
should be reset or else it should be considered as
a new, unrated player until its strength is known.

Think hard: when I beat your program, does it get
any weaker? No, so then, why does its rating drop?
This makes no sense. The computers ought to have
fixed ratings, and not be toyed with. If you want to
tweak level X, then enter level X as a new, unrated
player whose rating will be determined by its results,
and then *fixed* there. Simple.

------

But enough about ratings. Your real problem is
that you are attempting to charge money to play
games, which is a strategy that won't work. Look
at the other sites on the Web: they allow non-
members to play for free, but hit them with a ton
of advertisements while offering to remove them
if you pay to join. They also limit the number of
games unless you pay, and they restrict options
such as starting rated games or analyzing on
another board -- whatever. But none of the ones
I have tried force anyone to pay to play; instead,
what they do is force you to look at annoying ads
until you do. That "business model", as they call
it these days, is working. Yours isn't.


Right now I am playing Rob Mitchell some games
at chessworld.net, which seems to me to be a bit
inferior to redhotpawn.com in terms of how moves
are entered. But they have team play, and who
knows what else (I don't pay to play). In fact, they
offer free months to those who sign up friends, and
this seems to be working, just as you would expect.
Such ideas are easy to find, if you simply were to
explore the Web sites of your competition. See
what you like, and copy the concept on your own
site. Then discard your chess program and in its
place install Crafty 0.01 or something. ;D


-- help bot

On Aug 22, 4:50 am, Sanny wrote:

So Nomorechess, Taylor Kingston, Bob, Chrisf, Zebediah WHERE ARE YOU.


Okay, so eventually I went and tried to play some
more chess at Getclub.com, and here's what
happened:

After some trouble logging on, having forgotten my
old password, etc., etc., I finally get a game going
under a new handle (help bot). The program seems
to have no openings book, and at move three is
already slowed to a crawl on the second-weakest
level (I had to choose between weakest or second-
weakest, others were unselectable). I took Black:

1.e3 c5

2.Qf3? Nc6

3.Bb5 Nb4

4.Na3 a6

5.a3 axb5

6.axb4 cb

7.Nxb5 Ra5

8.a4 bxa e.p.

9.Nc3 axb2

10.Bxb2 Rxa1+

11.Bxa1 Qa5

12.Bb2 Qb4

13.Bc1

(the memory fades...)

After a couple more moves, I was up a pawn on the
Queen-side and was permanently preventing White
from castling. At one point, White made yet another
dumb Queen move but one which threatened mate on
the move! Nice. I got castled and was about to swing
my Rook to the a-file for a routine King assault (...R-a1,
say goodnight, Gracie) when the program disconnected
me. I checked and there was nothing wrong with my
internet connection. Strange. The program had been
moving at a fairly reasonable speed, though its moves
hardly impressed.

The good news is the program did not toss away
material that easily, and seemed tactically alert. The
bad news is that it plays poorly, slowly, and there
seem to be disconnection issues. The Java applet
took quite a while to load, and only after I had already
given up on it did the chess board suddenly appear,
ready to rumble. Someone with a faster connection
might have better luck than I did in this game.

To sum up, the program is too weak for me, and
the other site issues are not worth all the trouble it
takes to play half of one game, only to get
disconnected at random (or perhaps because I was
winning?).


-- help bot

On Aug 23, 12:30 am, "Ruud" wrote:
"Sanny" schreef in ooglegroups.com...

I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's better
than
the rest.

Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
Chess games arround.

So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.

As you yourself hopefully understand: it's not saying a lot if your program
beats another program (or beats you for that matter).
Telling apart selfproclaimed top-programmers from actual ones is what
matters, and you seem to have failed there by not producing an worthy
opponent in your 'strongest game' statement.

Yes, Thats my mistake.

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html

... Bh6??

This move just gives away a piece for no reason.
Even blindfold, I could see that. Could this be a
case of operator error, or a software malfunction?

There was no move which could save Black at this point. I found The
other move of King to save the fork was also not as good.

And how the Queen could be trapped please tell those moves?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html

But enough about ratings. Your real problem is
that you are attempting to charge money to play
games, which is a strategy that won't work. Look
at the other sites on the Web: they allow non-
members to play for free, but hit them with a ton

My site gives Prizes every month. So if you are a good player among
Top 10. You virtually get Games for Free. You can play 100s of games
at site without paying for free if you are good player.

If you are not good enough then only you need to purchase more games.
So my site gives free games to Top Players.

For weak players they can play 30 Games for Free. That is enough I
think.

Bye
Sanny.

Play Chess at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html

To sum up, the program is too weak for me, and
the other site issues are not worth all the trouble it
takes to play half of one game, only to get
disconnected at random (or perhaps because I was
winning?).

I found your Game was not recorded. However I could find arround 10
Games played by other people. So I do not understand why it do not
work on your computer?

You took a new username Thats the reasion you were only allowed to
play Beginner & Easy Levels. Once you win 2-3 games with them you can
Play with Normal. And then Master and Then Advance Levels.

Beginner & Easy Levels are for newcommers. For you Normal & Master
will be challenging.

I saw recorded games at: http://www.getclub.com/Chess.html Played by
other Players.

I found yesterday few players played, but all played with beginner
Level which plays in 2-10 seconds.

But as you are good players I think you should beat 2-3 games and play
with Higher Levels.

The Game Resource Hog problem was removed. The Game Play will also be
improved by looking at your suggestions. Did you find the Program
using less resources or not?

Bye
Sanny.

After some trouble logging on, having forgotten my
old password, etc., etc., I finally get a game going
under a new handle (help bot). The program seems

You can getback your old Profile by Updating your Username

http://www.getclub.com/Update/Update...n&upd=username

At above site Login and Change your username to nomorechess and then
you can use your Old Account.

Or Just Signup a new Account with username nomorechess.

Bye
Sanny.

"Sanny" schreef in bericht
ps.com...
On Aug 23, 12:30 am, "Ruud" wrote:
"Sanny" schreef in
ooglegroups.com...

I'm just hoping he's not making up lists himself to 'prove' he's
better
than
the rest.

Surely I do not know about those games. There are lots and lots of
Chess games arround.

So I would say, It was First Time GetClub Chess beat any other Chess
Program. Earlier It was unable to beat even me. Now it is beating even
other Chess Programs. May be later It challenges the Toppers.

As you yourself hopefully understand: it's not saying a lot if your
program
beats another program (or beats you for that matter).
Telling apart selfproclaimed top-programmers from actual ones is what
matters, and you seem to have failed there by not producing an worthy
opponent in your 'strongest game' statement.

Yes, Thats my mistake.

Can I just ask what level of play you yourself have?
What's your Fide-elo-rating? What's the chessknowledge you have?