http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

On Oct 24, 7:14 am, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

You might want to reconsider whether you should post the stories
about (1) Fischer having his dental fillings removed, and (2) his
remembering all the moves of his 1958 blitz games with Vasyukov years
later. Regrettably, I do not have the contradicting sources at hand
right now, but I recall reading some time within the past few years
that:
(1) Fischer has denied ever doing this, that at worst he refused to
get dental treatment, leaving some cavities unfilled, but he did not
have existing fillings removed.
(2) When Fischer saw Vasyukov in 1971, he remembered at most some of
the opening moves from their 1958 blitz games. He did not remember
anything like every move of every game.

The stories about the fillings and the Vasyukov games can be found
all over the Internet, with few if any sites ever naming a reliable
source. Try as I might, I could not find where the contradictions were
made, though I distinctly recall reading them. Any rgcm readers know
where they can be found?

I like the one, done from memory:

The crowd were shouting and whisting with every move. Maybe some
soccer match had been cancelled in Belgrade... As a consequence chess
was the main attraction in Belgrade that night..."

How's my memory?

"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 24, 7:14 am, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

You might want to reconsider whether you should post the stories
about (1) Fischer having his dental fillings removed, and (2) his
remembering all the moves of his 1958 blitz games with Vasyukov years
later. Regrettably, I do not have the contradicting sources at hand
right now, but I recall reading some time within the past few years
that:

Whereas, you know the name of the individual in your own town, who after
playing that game v Ivanov discussed Fischer with Ivanov and myself!

Here in the green mountains i went to see a tournament and
watched an Ivanov [Boston] game. After, his playing partner and I started
talking Fischer and the playing partner said he used to organise university
simuls which fischer attended.

so.. after their individual game, and all games had finished, fischer said
that he saw some possibilities in their game and would our friend [Alain]
like to
look at them?

well, of course he said yes, but then fischer started setting up a
completely unknown position, and talking about it. at length our friend
realised that this game was not the one just playes but from a /previous/
simul that he had played against fischer more than 6 months before! and
fischer had probably played a 1,000 games in between

What I don't understand about Taylor Kingston posts, is that he even /knows/
who volunteered this anecdote, and previously acknowledged it, but can't put
that together with this overwhelming evidence of a prodigious memory.

The stories about the fillings and the Vasyukov games can be found
all over the Internet, with few if any sites ever naming a reliable
source. Try as I might, I could not find where the contradictions were
made, though I distinctly recall reading them. Any rgcm readers know
where they can be found?

Some time ago, when I directly answered your own private question to me
about a certain infamous interviewee, I cited my sources, one of which was
Vasyukov. You did not follow that up directly, and now want 'internet'
citations? ROFL

You should retire from chess commentary or take it seriously! At least do
not pretend in public that you do other than 'question' things which is
merely passive, when you pretend to some journalistic credibility which is
an active stance.

And you should stop attacking those who do write beyond your knowledge. Real
questions are indicated, not this usual ****.

Phil Innes

On Oct 24, 5:57 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Oct 24, 7:14 am, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

You might want to reconsider whether you should post the stories
about (1) Fischer having his dental fillings removed, and (2) his
remembering all the moves of his 1958 blitz games with Vasyukov years
later. Regrettably, I do not have the contradicting sources at hand
right now, but I recall reading some time within the past few years
that:

Whereas, you know the name of the individual in your own town, who after
playing that game v Ivanov discussed Fischer with Ivanov and myself!

Here in the green mountains i went to see a tournament and
watched an Ivanov [Boston] game. After, his playing partner and I started
talking Fischer and the playing partner said he used to organise university
simuls which fischer attended.

so.. after their individual game, and all games had finished, fischer said
that he saw some possibilities in their game and would our friend [Alain]
like to
look at them?

well, of course he said yes, but then fischer started setting up a
completely unknown position, and talking about it. at length our friend
realised that this game was not the one just playes but from a /previous/
simul that he had played against fischer more than 6 months before! and
fischer had probably played a 1,000 games in between

What I don't understand about Taylor Kingston posts, is that he even /knows/
who volunteered this anecdote, and previously acknowledged it, but can't put
that together with this overwhelming evidence of a prodigious memory.

The stories about the fillings and the Vasyukov games can be found
all over the Internet, with few if any sites ever naming a reliable
source. Try as I might, I could not find where the contradictions were
made, though I distinctly recall reading them. Any rgcm readers know
where they can be found?

Some time ago, when I directly answered your own private question to me
about a certain infamous interviewee, I cited my sources, one of which was
Vasyukov. You did not follow that up directly, and now want 'internet'
citations? ROFL

You should retire from chess commentary or take it seriously! At least do
not pretend in public that you do other than 'question' things which is
merely passive, when you pretend to some journalistic credibility which is
an active stance.

And you should stop attacking those who do write beyond your knowledge. Real
questions are indicated, not this usual ****.

Phil Innes

Looks like Phil doesn't know, but then I didn't expect he would.

On Oct 24, 4:57 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
"Taylor Kingston" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Oct 24, 7:14 am, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

You might want to reconsider whether you should post the stories
about (1) Fischer having his dental fillings removed, and (2) his
remembering all the moves of his 1958 blitz games with Vasyukov years
later. Regrettably, I do not have the contradicting sources at hand
right now, but I recall reading some time within the past few years
that:

Whereas, you know the name of the individual in your own town, who after
playing that game v Ivanov discussed Fischer with Ivanov and myself!

Here in the green mountains i went to see a tournament and
watched an Ivanov [Boston] game. After, his playing partner and I started
talking Fischer and the playing partner said he used to organise university
simuls which fischer attended.

so.. after their individual game, and all games had finished, fischer said
that he saw some possibilities in their game and would our friend [Alain]
like to
look at them?

well, of course he said yes, but then fischer started setting up a
completely unknown position, and talking about it. at length our friend
realised that this game was not the one just playes but from a /previous/
simul that he had played against fischer more than 6 months before! and
fischer had probably played a 1,000 games in between

What I don't understand about Taylor Kingston posts, is that he even /knows/
who volunteered this anecdote, and previously acknowledged it, but can't put
that together with this overwhelming evidence of a prodigious memory.

The stories about the fillings and the Vasyukov games can be found
all over the Internet, with few if any sites ever naming a reliable
source. Try as I might, I could not find where the contradictions were
made, though I distinctly recall reading them. Any rgcm readers know
where they can be found?

Some time ago, when I directly answered your own private question to me
about a certain infamous interviewee, I cited my sources, one of which was
Vasyukov. You did not follow that up directly, and now want 'internet'
citations? ROFL

You should retire from chess commentary or take it seriously! At least do
not pretend in public that you do other than 'question' things which is
merely passive, when you pretend to some journalistic credibility which is
an active stance.

And you should stop attacking those who do write beyond your knowledge. Real
questions are indicated, not this usual ****.

Phil Innes


I see that IM Innes is still stuck in ad hominem gear,
"arguing" to the person of Taylor Kingston, whilst always
missing the real issue: what is there to reliably back up
such claims? (I said reliably.)


Here's my take (and it would be nice if those who knew
BF well would comment on their own experiences, even
if we know they are horribly biased on all things relating
to BF):

Sometimes I play five games in a tourney, and yet
many of these are of little concern afterward. But when
I am concerned with a particular game, there is a strong
possibility that any comments I make regarding that
game are not just from my memory of the original game,
perhaps played weeks, months or even years earlier;
no, my comments may well relate to study or analysis
conducted *much more recently* than the game itself.

Now I don't see why it is always *assumed* by fans
that Bobby Fischer must not have looked at any game
he comments upon after that game was originally
played. To me, this is self-deception, fired by a deep
psychological need to worship at the BF altar. It
certainly does not follow from logical reason or even
from common sense.

That being said, idiot savants (or just plain idiots, who
happen to be really good at something) can do amazing
things. By obsessing over just one thing, it may well be
possible for someone like BF to recall, move for move,
many, many games he played years earlier. I have seen
far lesser chess players reconstruct games they have
*not* seen from illegible score-sheets, using their deep
familiarity with chess and a bit of common sense, so
long as the errors are not extensive.

What is wrong with TK's objection? He says that he
knows he has read somewhere, but knows not where,
that these accounts are unsubstantiated, and thus they
should be removed. Yet he offers no substantiation of
his own -- just anecdote! What a loon. Yet he is not
far off the trail of what is wrong with these anecdotes.

I have repeatedly pointed out that the widely-quoted
"fact" that BF's IQ was 200,089 or some slightly lower
figure is backed, as far as I can tell, by nothing but one
fan's unsubstantiated claim; no one seems to care if it
really is true -- to the contrary, the more stuff they can
pile onto the altar, the better. These people almost
certainly equate BF's bragging about the size of his
privates with scientifically established fact! LOL

Many writers seem to know very little about the real
Bobby Fischer, and make bold assumptions based on
some offhand comments or other he made, like the one
where he refused to finish a meal because someone
may have "put something in it". The trouble here is
that not only is this shallow stuff, but it lends itself to
crafting the "story" to fit preconceptions, not reality.

The problem of shallow stuff is compounded by those
writers who just ape their predecessors, copying such
things as "women's shoes" in the case of Paul Morphy,
for instance. There is precious little reason in the world
of chess writing, and far too much in the way of the
crafting of "facts" to fit a mold.


-- help bot

On Oct 24, 7:14 am, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

Here's one I just got from IM John Donaldson you might want to add:

Mechanics' Institute Chess Club Newsletter #368

We were in the fifth hour. He was lost, ruined, not a chance! I knew
it, he knew it. But he sat there -- almost an hour! -- calculating,
calculating, calculating! Inside he was screaming. He was pale, like a
dead man, but this force was going through him like millions of volts.
I could feel it smashing and smashing at me across the board. Well, it
had an effect, I can tell you that. Five or ten minutes -- all right.
But an hour! In the end, I was the one screaming inside. When you play
Bobby, it is not a question if you win or lose. It is a question if
you survive.

Boris Spassky after defeating Bobby Fischer at the Siegen Olympiad in
1970.

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:14:41 -0700, Rob wrote:

http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

One quote Fischer made that was amazing to me was that he couldn't
play blindfold chess. Fischer said he couldn't visualize a board and
pieces in his mind. Hard to believe.

EZoto

On Oct 25, 8:30 pm, EZoto wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:14:41 -0700, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

One quote Fischer made that was amazing to me was that he couldn't
play blindfold chess. Fischer said he couldn't visualize a board and
pieces in his mind. Hard to believe.

EZoto

I don't see such a quote on the Chessville site. In any event, while
Fischer was perhaps not as skilled at blindfold chess as, say,
Koltanowski or Alekhine, but I'm sure he could play sans voir and
could visualize positions in his mind. Consider, for example, the time
the power went out in one of his games, as I recall in his Candidates
Match with Petrosian. Despite being in darkness, Fischer was willing
to let his clock continue to run, because he was analyzing in his mind.

On Oct 25, 8:30 pm, EZoto wrote:
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:14:41 -0700, Rob wrote:
http://www.chessville.com/misc/Quotes/moreFischer.htm

One quote Fischer made that was amazing to me was that he couldn't
play blindfold chess. Fischer said he couldn't visualize a board and
pieces in his mind. Hard to believe.

Can you give a source for that quote? It really seems unlikely that
Fischer would say he couldn't visualize; that is a skill all great
players have to a high degree.
I recall another anecdote that directly contradicts such an idea; as
I recall it appeared in Chess Life some years ago. An acquaintance of
Fischer, a good amateur player, was elated that a game of his had been
published in a local newspaper column. He proudly showed the column to
Fischer, who scanned it for a few seconds. Bobby handed the paper
back, saying "Yes, pretty good game." The guy replied something like
"Aw, come on, Bobby, you mean to tell me you just played through the
whole game in your head??" Fischer replied something like "Yes, I did.
You could have won faster with a knight sac on move 17." And it was
true.
That sure sounds like visualization to me.