Chess friends,

I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently. I wondered what was meant
but left the matter aside while trying to understand other things. Now,
returning to it, I'd like to find out what you all mean when you refer
to someone as a ratpacker.

I wanted to approach the subject with a bit of preparatory work. I
investigated the Google archives. From the records available, it
appears that the term was used earliest by Mr. Parr referring to Mr.
Winters and his ratpackers. As time went on it apparently was co-opted
by his adversaries to refer to Mr. Evans and his ratpackers.

That is as far as I got with the archives. Mr. Parr, can you tell me if
I am on the right track as far as your usage goes?

Not content to leave the matter there -- I looked about the Internet to
find more clues. I uncovered this website:

http://screed.blackraptor.net/ratpack/ and
http://screed.blackraptor.net/ratpack/speak.html

What I learned there is that ratpackers were followers of a vampire
creature that lived off the blood of rats. The followers appear to have
been charged with locating rats for their leader at times. Could this
be the prototypical inspiration for our usage in r.g.c.p?

I picked up a bit of vocabulary from this site that may prove useful to
spice up your diatribe.

Question
What is a Ratpacker?
Answer
Ratpackers are the fans wot follow tha' Forever Knight rat-slurpin'
vampire Screed. ‘Tis true tha' the droog supposedly croaked roight
proper-loik h'in the episode "Fever" when a white lab rat gave ‘im a
part-tick-uarly bad case o' indi-gest-tion. This may be, but h'us
Ratpackers know ‘e got better.

DROOG or DROOGSIE: We use this as both an affectionate name for each
other, and an insult (depending on the context of the sentence).

FORP: Friend of the Ratpack. These are folks who like hanging out with
the Ratpack, or merely think we're a hoot, but can't bring themselves to
admit to full Ratpackdom.

LIL' RATSIES: On-line legend has it that we, in make-believe virtual
terms, reside with and can (to some extent) control rats. Lots of rats
(hey, we have to feed Screed, don't we?) The "Lil' Ratsies" will often
stand up and cheer for certain things, for example, a particularly funny
post ("All the lil' ratsies stand up and go 'yah!'") and were even
bribed into singing Happy B'day to Libby last August.

THROMP: Hit. The Ratpackers are constantly being hit with rolled up
newspapers and the like. Always pickin' on the Ratpack, the other
factions are! :::boo-hoo:::


Cheers,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.
--
"... what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a
measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results
with His Noodly Appendage."

-- Bobby Henderson opposing Evolution & Intelligent Design

On Nov 19, 10:47 pm, "J.D. Walker" wrote:

Chess friends,

I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently.

Been listening to to old Dean Martin movies?

Remember, "Robbo" (or Frank Sinatra) was the leader,
da boss. If you fughet that for even one second, /Robbo
ain't gonna like it/.


I wondered what was meant
but left the matter aside while trying to understand other things. Now,
returning to it, I'd like to find out what you all mean when you refer
to someone as a ratpacker.

The original use here was meant, as you say, to mislead
uninformed readers into believing that several independent
critics of evil scum were in fact a group, organized and
controlled by an even more evil scum!

More recently, chief rat Larry Parr has decided on a whim
that the more-evil head honcho is none other than Edward
Winter. This is probably because a) EW does not post
here and thus cannot defend himself, and b) EW's biting
criticisms eat into the flesh of Larry Parr, like sulfuric acid.

In point of fact, all those who are familiar with the case
know that it is only the Evans ratpack which acts in
unison, sans any rational assessment of their fearless
leaders' countless proclamations on various issues such
as drug testing, FIDE bashing, rational-discussion busting
and so forth. There is a very clear pecking order, with GM
Evans at the top and apparently, Rob da Robber Mitchell
at the very bottom. Nobody can figure out the actual rank
of Mr. Sloan -- it's as if he were a sort of Gestapo man,
somewhat independent yet closely connected to the main
army ratpack.

In case you haven't already figured it out, the ploy was
supposed to defuse rational criticisms by constructing a
massive straw man, then pretending to knock him down.
(Though even here, the Evans ratpackers have grave
difficulties, often showing themselves to be not quite up
to the task.)

In fact Edward Winter -- the supposed head honcho of
more-evil-than-Evans rats -- does not post here, so far as
we know. He is kept busy -- very busy -- by the hacks
who churn out chess books and articles by the dozens,
if not by the hundreds. But fear not, for we have Louis
Blair, a man who does spelling, dates, and yes, even
direct quotations!

Ed Winter's heinous crime was in pointing out the
careless errors printed under GM Evans' name while
himself not having earned some high title such as
"world champion" or whatever; you see, Mr. Evans
(and his clones) has a serious superiority complex,
and anyone who "dares" point out a mistake of his
had better be ready for a good telling off and putting
in their place. These ordinary, non-GM folks are
what is known as peons -- the little people. They
must stay in their proper place, remaining silent
around their "vast superiors" at all times, you see.
That's just how things are, and if you don't like it,
too bad.

The simple fact is, since the other drones are
even less capable, the burden of "defense" or
rather, ad hominem counter-attack has fallen to
Larry Parr, and he just can't seem to handle all
the critics so he has to invent what he calls a
pack or a "ratpack", to reduce their apparent
numbers to something he thinks he can handle
in his own very muddled mind. The term was
chosen for its negative connotations -- though
they have nothing to do with vampires or bats.

It is ironic that the term aptly fits the Evans clan
or pack, since they do indeed take whatever chief
rat Larry Evans says and support it, uncritically.

1. e4! -- LE

1. e4! -- LP

1. e4! -- PI

1. e4! -- RM


Die FIDE! -- LE

Die FIDE! -- LP

Die FEDE! -- PI

Dei FEDIE! -- RM


Botvinik cheated! -- LE

Botvinnik cheated! -- LP

Bovnik cheated! -- PI

Bovinek cheetd! -- RM


Smoking gun! -- LE

SMOKING GUN! -- LP

Smoking gum? -- PI

I smoke it two! -- RM

--

Now that's a ratpack.

-- help bot

J.D. Walker wrote:
I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently.

It's a term that Phil Innes and Larry Parr use to mean, `a member of
the global conspiracy against me.'


Dave.


--
David Richerby Mouldy Windows (TM): it's like a
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ graphical user interface but it's
starting to grow mushrooms!

On Nov 20, 6:25 am, David Richerby
wrote:
J.D. Walker wrote:
I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently.

It's a term that Phil Innes and Larry Parr use to mean, `a member of
the global conspiracy against me.'

Dave.

--
David Richerby Mouldy Windows (TM): it's like awww.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ graphical user interface but it's
starting to grow mushrooms!

Membership is granted in the global conspiracy once you contradict
their errors.

On Nov 19, 10:47 pm, "J.D. Walker" wrote:
Chess friends,

I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently. I wondered what was meant

As far as I know, Rev, the term was introduced here on the rgc
groups by Larry Parr. In particular, he used the phrase "Winter
ratpackers" as a derisive way to designate anyone who tended to prefer
the work of the meticulous chess historian Edward Winter to the work
of GM Larry Evans. This group would probably include, say, Louis
Blair, Neil Brennen, Steven Dowd, myself and several others. Though we
actually post here quite independently, Parr somehow imagined us to
be, or wished to portray us, as a sinister cabal acting on orders from
Winter, like minions of Professor Moriarty or mafia hit-men, the goal
being to destroy the good name of Parr's idol Evans.
In fact, I would say that most of the alleged "ratpackers" have
never had any contact with Winter, who lives in Switzerland. I have
exchanged e-mails and letters with him, but have had no contact at all
for several years.
More recently, some posters, mainly Help-bot (aka NoMoreChess),
turned the term around, and applied it to Parr and some of his
supporters, mainly Sam Sloan and Phil Innes. So the phrase has become
practically meaningless.

I wanted to answer some questions you asked in another thread; this
one seemed a more appopriate place:

On Nov 20, 7:58 am, "J.D. Walker" wrote:

Mr. Bot,

Okay, I read the article. I am impressed with the amount of work that
Taylor put into it. As for the topic covered, my conclusion was that
there was a lot of evidence to consider, and it appeared that there was
nothing definitely conclusive. However, for the most part it was
persuasive -- the dark forces of Stalin worked against Keres' interests.

What ever became of Averbakh's memoirs?

A good question. In an interview he gave me in July 2002, Averbakh
said he was working on them, and that they would be published in
Russian, probably under a name such as "Chess and the System." meaning
the Soviet political system. I don't know if that has happened yet,
much less if plans are afoot for an English version.
In any event, and contrary to what I was told by Emanuel Sztein in
March 1998, it appears that any Averbakh memoirs will not contain any
evidence supporting any anti-Keres conspiracy theory. Averbakh himself
is on record against that hypothesis, as you can read he

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles181.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles183.pdf

Sztein, a Russian, was a press attaché for GM Viktor Korchnoi, and
claimed to "know with certainty" that Keres had been coerced, and so I
thought him a source worth mentioning in my 1998 article. However, it
would appear that as far as Averbakh supporting the coercion thesis,
Mr. Sztein was mistaken. Further questioning of Sztein is not
possible, as he died several years ago. Averbakh, now 85, is still
going strong. If he does produce any memoirs, I'm sure they will be
interesting, but I'm not expecting much about a Keres-Botvinnik fix
from him.
BTW, Rev, watch for a knee-jerk reaction flame-post from Phil Innes.
He does this every time I mention Averbakh.

I see some disagreements with Evans are mentioned. I suppose these are
the seeds (at least in part) of the present controversy.

Yes, as I have explained, to Larry Parr, any disagreement with Evans
is a capital offense with no statute of limitations. The offender must
be utterly discredited and vilified, by fair means or foul (usually
the latter).

I was promised crystal clarity. I feel that that promise has not been
met.

About the Keres-Botvinnik case? I never promised that. I've done my
best with it, for what that's worth, but much remains unknown.

What remains very unclear to me: How can mature, intelligent
human beings keep a feud going for 7+ years on something like this?

A very good question, Rev. I would be quite happy to leave the whole
matter alone, but Larry Parr won't. As I said, to him, disagreement
with Evans is a capital offense with no statute of limitations. The
offender is to be discredited and vilified, by fair means or foul
(usually the latter). You've seen some of the foul means here on the
newsgroup; some others Parr and Evans employed some years ago are
described he

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles165.pdf

Over the past several months, maybe year, I had pretty much
disengaged from the rgc newsgroups altogether (you can verify this
with functions under the "more options" link on Google). Neither had
Parr been saying much about me.
What prompted the latest outbreak of Parrorrhea was the fact that I
made a few posts critical of Sam Sloan, a convicted felon, lifelong
ne'er-do-well, shameless attention-seeker, delusional solipsist and
long-time running joke here on rgc, whom Parr, for reasons of his own,
keeps pushing as the savior of the USCF. Parr wants Sloan on the USCF
Executive Board, I think that's a bad idea.
Parr, having no way to counter my criticisms of Sloan, launched yet
again into full-scale smear-Kingston mode, recycling mud he's been
throwing here for years. I might have ignored him, but it's rather fun
rebutting him, especially when, as we've seen here recently, it leads
Larry into all sorts of patently false and ridiculous statements.

Hasn't anyone had the thought, "This is enough, I am putting it behind
me and moving on...?"

I'd be quite happy to, but Parr seems to relish mud-slinging. Much
of the time I ignore him, but sometimes, as recently, he serves up
such fat pitches that I can't resist whacking them now and then. It's
the same sort of pleasure one gets from beating Sanny's inept chess
program.

The apparent chemistry reminds me of a particular
type of bad marriage where the weaknesses of each mate act as incendiary
catalysts on the other leading to wild arguments and fights. Get a divorce!

If you can persuade Larry to shut up, fine by me.

On Nov 19, 9:47 pm, "J.D. Walker" wrote:
Chess friends,

I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently. I wondered what was meant
but left the matter aside while trying to understand other things. Now,
returning to it, I'd like to find out what you all mean when you refer
to someone as a ratpacker.

I wanted to approach the subject with a bit of preparatory work. I
investigated the Google archives. From the records available, it
appears that the term was used earliest by Mr. Parr referring to Mr.
Winters and his ratpackers. As time went on it apparently was co-opted
by his adversaries to refer to Mr. Evans and his ratpackers.

That is as far as I got with the archives. Mr. Parr, can you tell me if
I am on the right track as far as your usage goes?

Not content to leave the matter there -- I looked about the Internet to
find more clues. I uncovered this website:

http://screed.blackraptor.net/ratpac...ack/speak.html

What I learned there is that ratpackers were followers of a vampire
creature that lived off the blood of rats. The followers appear to have
been charged with locating rats for their leader at times. Could this
be the prototypical inspiration for our usage in r.g.c.p?

I picked up a bit of vocabulary from this site that may prove useful to
spice up your diatribe.

Question
What is a Ratpacker?
Answer
Ratpackers are the fans wot follow tha' Forever Knight rat-slurpin'
vampire Screed. 'Tis true tha' the droog supposedly croaked roight
proper-loik h'in the episode "Fever" when a white lab rat gave 'im a
part-tick-uarly bad case o' indi-gest-tion. This may be, but h'us
Ratpackers know 'e got better.

DROOG or DROOGSIE: We use this as both an affectionate name for each
other, and an insult (depending on the context of the sentence).

FORP: Friend of the Ratpack. These are folks who like hanging out with
the Ratpack, or merely think we're a hoot, but can't bring themselves to
admit to full Ratpackdom.

LIL' RATSIES: On-line legend has it that we, in make-believe virtual
terms, reside with and can (to some extent) control rats. Lots of rats
(hey, we have to feed Screed, don't we?) The "Lil' Ratsies" will often
stand up and cheer for certain things, for example, a particularly funny
post ("All the lil' ratsies stand up and go 'yah!'") and were even
bribed into singing Happy B'day to Libby last August.

THROMP: Hit. The Ratpackers are constantly being hit with rolled up
newspapers and the like. Always pickin' on the Ratpack, the other
factions are! :::boo-hoo:::

Cheers,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.
--
"... what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a
measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results
with His Noodly Appendage."

-- Bobby Henderson opposing Evolution & Intelligent Design

I think there were other Pastafarians here before me:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...rch+this+group

wrote:

Cheers,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.
--
"... what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a
measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results
with His Noodly Appendage."

-- Bobby Henderson opposing Evolution & Intelligent Design

I think there were other Pastafarians here before me:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.g...rch+this+group

Mr. Brock,

I am not a Pastafarian, but I appreciate their efforts in the war on
rigid thinking in the design of school curricula. The idea of running
around in a pirate suit doesn't appeal to me.

I see all of the religious and philosophical traditions as part of the
great mental Smorgasboard of Life. If one makes poor choices in
consumption, they can end up with a bad case of gas.
--

Cheers,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.

On Nov 20, 6:25 am, David Richerby
wrote:
J.D. Walker wrote:
I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently.

It's a term that Phil Innes and Larry Parr use to mean, `a member of
the global conspiracy against me.'


It would be more accurate to say that in Larry Parr's
mind, the conspiracy centers around his idol, Larry Evans.

Nearly-an-imp Innes hardly deserves mentioning, since it
was his master who adopted the term; when asked "who
built the pyrarmids", does one answer "a bunch of lowly
slaves, who got whipped every day"? Of course not.

Ah, but this is all a fantasy, for LP is not really deluded
in that respect. His ploy is a deeply dishonest device,
and he knows full well there is no "ratpack" headed up
by phantom Ed Winter. Ad hominem is LP's hobby, so
to speak; rhetoric and lies, his religion. Terms like
"ratpackers" can easily be replaced if other terms come
to hand, or on a whim.

The red herring is his state fish, and it has served him
well. Like a skilled magician, Mr. Parr uses misdirection
and diversion to obscure weaknesses and refocus
attention on random other props and things. But I was
never impressed by that sort of thing. What I wanted
was for Harry Houdini to be bound, gagged, knocked
unconscious and chained, then dropped into a vat of
boiling sulfuric acid and a ton of TNT thrown in. After
this, I expect half the audience to be injured in a huge
explosion, and the the real fireworks start: Air Force
bombers fly over, dropping napalm and yet somehow,
the magician emerges from the carnage unscathed.

Next, we see him sawed in half before our very eyes,
then dropped into the mouth of an angry great white
shark, in pieces... . Okay, maybe I expect too much.


-- help bot

Taylor Kingston wrote:
On Nov 19, 10:47 pm, "J.D. Walker" wrote:
Chess friends,

I've seen the term ratpacker used frequently. I wondered what was meant

As far as I know, Rev, the term was introduced here on the rgc
groups by Larry Parr. In particular, he used the phrase "Winter
ratpackers" as a derisive way to designate anyone who tended to prefer
the work of the meticulous chess historian Edward Winter to the work
of GM Larry Evans. This group would probably include, say, Louis
Blair, Neil Brennen, Steven Dowd, myself and several others. Though we
actually post here quite independently, Parr somehow imagined us to
be, or wished to portray us, as a sinister cabal acting on orders from
Winter, like minions of Professor Moriarty or mafia hit-men, the goal
being to destroy the good name of Parr's idol Evans.
In fact, I would say that most of the alleged "ratpackers" have
never had any contact with Winter, who lives in Switzerland. I have
exchanged e-mails and letters with him, but have had no contact at all
for several years.
More recently, some posters, mainly Help-bot (aka NoMoreChess),
turned the term around, and applied it to Parr and some of his
supporters, mainly Sam Sloan and Phil Innes. So the phrase has become
practically meaningless.

I wanted to answer some questions you asked in another thread; this
one seemed a more appopriate place:

On Nov 20, 7:58 am, "J.D. Walker" wrote:
Mr. Bot,

Okay, I read the article. I am impressed with the amount of work that
Taylor put into it. As for the topic covered, my conclusion was that
there was a lot of evidence to consider, and it appeared that there was
nothing definitely conclusive. However, for the most part it was
persuasive -- the dark forces of Stalin worked against Keres' interests.

What ever became of Averbakh's memoirs?

A good question. In an interview he gave me in July 2002, Averbakh
said he was working on them, and that they would be published in
Russian, probably under a name such as "Chess and the System." meaning
the Soviet political system. I don't know if that has happened yet,
much less if plans are afoot for an English version.
In any event, and contrary to what I was told by Emanuel Sztein in
March 1998, it appears that any Averbakh memoirs will not contain any
evidence supporting any anti-Keres conspiracy theory. Averbakh himself
is on record against that hypothesis, as you can read he

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles181.pdf
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles183.pdf


Thanks for pointing me to these articles. A very interesting read.
Good job.

Sztein, a Russian, was a press attaché for GM Viktor Korchnoi, and
claimed to "know with certainty" that Keres had been coerced, and so I
thought him a source worth mentioning in my 1998 article. However, it
would appear that as far as Averbakh supporting the coercion thesis,
Mr. Sztein was mistaken. Further questioning of Sztein is not
possible, as he died several years ago. Averbakh, now 85, is still
going strong. If he does produce any memoirs, I'm sure they will be
interesting, but I'm not expecting much about a Keres-Botvinnik fix
from him.
BTW, Rev, watch for a knee-jerk reaction flame-post from Phil Innes.
He does this every time I mention Averbakh.

I see some disagreements with Evans are mentioned. I suppose these are
the seeds (at least in part) of the present controversy.

Yes, as I have explained, to Larry Parr, any disagreement with Evans
is a capital offense with no statute of limitations. The offender must
be utterly discredited and vilified, by fair means or foul (usually
the latter).

I was promised crystal clarity. I feel that that promise has not been
met.

About the Keres-Botvinnik case? I never promised that. I've done my
best with it, for what that's worth, but much remains unknown.


Indeed, you did not. I believe it was Mr. Bot that made the promise.

What remains very unclear to me: How can mature, intelligent
human beings keep a feud going for 7+ years on something like this?

A very good question, Rev. I would be quite happy to leave the whole
matter alone, but Larry Parr won't. As I said, to him, disagreement
with Evans is a capital offense with no statute of limitations. The
offender is to be discredited and vilified, by fair means or foul
(usually the latter). You've seen some of the foul means here on the
newsgroup; some others Parr and Evans employed some years ago are
described he

http://www.chesscafe.com/text/skittles165.pdf

Over the past several months, maybe year, I had pretty much
disengaged from the rgc newsgroups altogether (you can verify this
with functions under the "more options" link on Google). Neither had
Parr been saying much about me.
What prompted the latest outbreak of Parrorrhea was the fact that I
made a few posts critical of Sam Sloan, a convicted felon, lifelong
ne'er-do-well, shameless attention-seeker, delusional solipsist and
long-time running joke here on rgc, whom Parr, for reasons of his own,
keeps pushing as the savior of the USCF. Parr wants Sloan on the USCF
Executive Board, I think that's a bad idea.
Parr, having no way to counter my criticisms of Sloan, launched yet
again into full-scale smear-Kingston mode, recycling mud he's been
throwing here for years. I might have ignored him, but it's rather fun
rebutting him, especially when, as we've seen here recently, it leads
Larry into all sorts of patently false and ridiculous statements.

Hasn't anyone had the thought, "This is enough, I am putting it behind
me and moving on...?"

I'd be quite happy to, but Parr seems to relish mud-slinging. Much
of the time I ignore him, but sometimes, as recently, he serves up
such fat pitches that I can't resist whacking them now and then. It's
the same sort of pleasure one gets from beating Sanny's inept chess
program.

Mr. Parr does relish the conflict he is engaged in. He has admitted it.
He even admitted a small amount of shame when he launches his
attacks. Moreover, it is in character with what I recall of him from
the past.

Why does he enjoy this? There was a time that he was an award winning
orator and debater at the scholastic level. I know because I tried my
hand at it at an opposing school. I believe that this controversy is,
in large part, a sport to him.

The apparent chemistry reminds me of a particular
type of bad marriage where the weaknesses of each mate act as incendiary
catalysts on the other leading to wild arguments and fights. Get a divorce!

If you can persuade Larry to shut up, fine by me.

I doubt that I can persuade anybody of anything. :^) I believe I do
have more tolerance for human variation of character than many.

After what I have read, I can still admire Larry Evans as one of the
"Grand Old Lions" of chess. I can admire Fischer for the depth of his
commitment to seeking chess truth over the board while at the same time
thinking the poor fellow had serious mental problems. I can admire Sam
Sloan for an evident deep concern about US chess, while not agreeing
with many of the other positions, strategies, or tactics he has or may
adopt. I can admire Larry Parr for bringing a certain flair to chess
journalism and for engaging many lively topics, without agreeing with
him about particular issues or his activity of prolonging this
controversy. I can admire you for being an excellent writer and
interviewer as evidenced by the articles you have pointed me to, and for
the sense of fairness I have felt in conversing with you -- even though
I think you focus too much on the disparagement of others in the present
context.

Life is not a binary enterprise. There are many shades of gray betwixt
black & white.

In any case, I have no intention of joining anybody's ratpack.
--

Cheers,
Rev. J.D. Walker, MsD, U.C.

On Nov 20, 11:15 am, Taylor Kingston wrote:

In fact, I would say that most of the alleged "ratpackers" have
never had any contact with Winter, who lives in Switzerland. I have
exchanged e-mails and letters with him, but have had no contact at all
for several years.

Superman never met Clark Kent either.