Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.

Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)

wrote in message
...
Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance of
Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country by
allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.

Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
hypocritical.

Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.

Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.

Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.

I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible. At a
personal level I agree completely.

Phil Innes

Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)

On Dec 6, 11:47 am, "
wrote:
Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.

Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)

I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
(in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
on non-chess issues.

Regards,
zdrakec

On Dec 6, 12:57 pm, zdrakec wrote:

I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
(in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
on non-chess issues.


Agreed. It isn't their mission.

But chessplayers within the USCF or just in general, could form, oh,
what is the name of the physicians' organization against nuclear arms?
Alzheimer's moment.... but such a group could be international.

On Dec 6, 12:35 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance of
Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country by
allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.

Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
hypocritical.

Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.

Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.

Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.

I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible. At a
personal level I agree completely.

Phil Innes



Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here comes Phil Innes. The United States should interfere in the
internal affairs of the Government of Russia.
This is none of our business. Is it fair? No. Do we want Phil Innes to
interfere in the affairs of Russia, No.?

What is our business (United States of America) is the death threats
made of his associates - namely Susan Polgar. The United States
Should prosecute Paul Troung, husband of Susan Polgar, and stay the
hell away from liberals from the northeast
Who profit from the molestation of children in chess.

Phil Innes works with Susan Polgar. I wonder how much he gets paid for
this support?


Marcus Roberts

wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 12:35 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance
of
Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country
by
allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.

Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
hypocritical.

Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.

Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.

Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.

I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible.
At a
personal level I agree completely.

Phil Innes



Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here comes Phil Innes. The United States should interfere in the
internal affairs of the Government of Russia.

Actually, I said 2 rather different things Marcus - 2 very difficult things
to do before 'interfering' with any idea of democracy since it seems to me
that if you cannot demonstrate it, then you have nothing to talk about.

This is none of our business. Is it fair? No. Do we want Phil Innes to
interfere in the affairs of Russia, No.?

Of course we don't want Phil Innes to interfere with 'affairs' in Russia,
especially since these affairs are only quasi-democratic to begin with, and
by all accounts queasy-democratic in practice.

What is our business (United States of America) is the death threats
made of his associates - namely Susan Polgar. The United States
Should prosecute Paul Troung, husband of Susan Polgar, and stay the
hell away from liberals from the northeast
Who profit from the molestation of children in chess.

Phil Innes works with Susan Polgar. I wonder how much he gets paid for
this support?

Marcus - if someone threatened me I would not speculate on usenet. You do.
This may only be a tempermental difference in our personalities.

I am not sure about your reference to molesting children, since when I raise
the issue of standards I never see you on the ramparts.

Phil Innes


Marcus Roberts

On Dec 6, 3:17 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Dec 6, 12:35 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

While I agree at a personal level with Jerry Spinrad about the importance
of
Kasparov's public stance in support of democratic practice in Russia - I
would first like to see USCF support democracy in chess in this country
by
allowing USCF members to actually comment on 'chess governance'.

Should it fail to do that then it is likely to be dismissed has
hypocritical.

Secondly, I would then like to see USCF, via advocacy for Kasparov if it
deems it prospective, to then advocate for democracy in Fide.

Should both the above be attained, then by all means let us support
democracy in the wider sphere of national politics.

Even if the cause was not important of itself (I feel it definitely
is), this is a rare opportunity for the USCF to be part of positive
publicity about chess; a chess player is acting like a true hero. Let
us celebrate that fact while we give him what little support we are
able to provide.

I very much like this sentiment. Would that USCF's support be credible.
At a
personal level I agree completely.

Phil Innes

Jerry Spinrad (who still has not been able to get onto the USC orum)-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here comes Phil Innes. The United States should interfere in the
internal affairs of the Government of Russia.

Actually, I said 2 rather different things Marcus - 2 very difficult things
to do before 'interfering' with any idea of democracy since it seems to me
that if you cannot demonstrate it, then you have nothing to talk about.

This is none of our business. Is it fair? No. Do we want Phil Innes to
interfere in the affairs of Russia, No.?

Of course we don't want Phil Innes to interfere with 'affairs' in Russia,
especially since these affairs are only quasi-democratic to begin with, and
by all accounts queasy-democratic in practice.

What is our business (United States of America) is the death threats
made of his associates - namely Susan Polgar. The United States
Should prosecute Paul Troung, husband of Susan Polgar, and stay the
hell away from liberals from the northeast
Who profit from the molestation of children in chess.

Phil Innes works with Susan Polgar. I wonder how much he gets paid for
this support?

Marcus - if someone threatened me I would not speculate on usenet. You do.
This may only be a tempermental difference in our personalities.

I am not sure about your reference to molesting children, since when I raise
the issue of standards I never see you on the ramparts.

Phil Innes





Marcus Roberts- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Phil Innes writes:

"Marcus - if someone threatened me I would not speculate on usenet.
You do.
This may only be a tempermental difference in our personalities."

Well, unless you have had somebody threaten to kill you (and mean it)
I wouldn't make
statements about what you would do in a sitaution you have never
faced. You just don't
know what you do, until you cross that bridge....

You have no idea the pressures I face, nor do I have any idea of your
pressures.

Nor would I (like Sam Sloan did) hand Bill Kellhner a bunch of files
on me, and go down
to St Kitts and Nevis, and give the files to a foriegn government.

Perhaps I do not have a choice, Phil. This is all about money!

Marcus Roberts
Permanent Delegate of St Kitts and Nevis to FIDE

"SBD" wrote in message
...
On Dec 6, 12:57 pm, zdrakec wrote:

I certainly agree with your points about Kasparov. However, I must
respectfully disagree about the USCF having any involvement. The
function of the USCF is to promote chess in the United States; it has
(in my humble opinion) no business taking any sort of political stand
on non-chess issues.


Agreed. It isn't their mission.

But chessplayers within the USCF or just in general, could form, oh,
what is the name of the physicians' organization against nuclear arms?
Alzheimer's moment.... but such a group could be international.

Medecin sans Frontieres. A local guy in our town won a Nobel for his work
[that's 4 Nobels for our town].

I know a Swedish gal my own age who is an MD. She has been to Africa twice
with this program. Tough to read her personal writing though, since she says
that somewhat more than half of the time she is reduced to nursing [which is
of great need there] and cannot practice her science as a doctor.

Sweden gives more money per capita to programs like this [and in contrast
with USA, more money in absolute amount too] and, while this Scandinavian
country provides a formidable lead in world conscience, I still accept her
50% effectiveness report by virtue of her own experience there. I also
accept that as being the superior opinion in contribution and experience of
its effect.

While I like the spirit of Jerry Spinrad's post, nevertheless it must be
said that unless chess has something to say about democratic process which
it can usefully contribute by virtue of its own demonstrated process, it
should hold its council. USCF is no exemplar of any democratic idea, and
FIDE is a democratic absurdity.

To have read the recent messages here provided by Larry Parr, citing Larry
Evans' new title on the real zeitgeist in chess, is enough to cause any
candid opinion, pause. Yet even in our game, you will note the contentious
denial thrown at what Evan's says.

In this sense Marcus Roberts is right if his intent was to say: We should
make peace in our own house before venturing abroad.

Where, do you think, is there a will to do that?

Phil Innes

On Dec 6, 4:27 pm, wrote:
On Dec 6, 3:17 pm, "Chess One" wrote:

Well, unless you have had somebody threaten to kill you (and mean it)

What the heck is taking them so long? Why is
this man still alive? Is he James Bond, or maybe
Superman? I wonder if the hired killers have been
shipwrecked, maybe on Antarctica... .


Perhaps I do not have a choice, Phil. This is all about money!

It's not worth all the hassle; better to give *me*
all your money, and let *me* suffer the slings and
arrows in your place. Remember that the love
of money is the root of all evil... it is easier for
a camel to get to 2450 nearly-an-IM level, than
for a rich man to enter the gates of Heaven.
(Also, the IRS will not be breathing down your
neck, greedily eyeballing all that mullah.)

help bot
bot central
the internet, planet earth
c/o:
aruba international offshore bank

(I prefer gold bars, but will reluctantly
accept U.S. Treasuries in a pinch.)

wrote:
Kasparov is in a dangerous position at the moment. One of the factors
that gives him the freedom to oppose the regime is the attention of
the international chess community to the former world champion. It
should be a no-brainer for the USCF; loudly announce support for his
attempts to maintain democracy in Russia.

Somebody has already suggested this. My reaction then was to say that
it would be *essential* to ask Kasparov about this first. My guess is
that USCF support could be the kiss of death for Kasparov's campaign
by causing him to be denounced as America's puppet.


Dave.

--
David Richerby Addictive Perforated Priest (TM):
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ it's like a man of the cloth but it's
full of holes and you can never put
it down!