On Jun 10, 2:20*pm, Peter Clinch wrote:
Harald Korneliussen wrote:
It isn't just the boards. Strategy books are also almost completely
unavailable in English (or any non Russian/Dutch/French language).

Personally I like to learn about games by playing them, but I do realise
there's plenty of folk like to read up on how to do better so fair comment..

One of the most appealing things about checkers is that it is a game
with a community, and a history. Regular international tournaments,
official titles, newspaper columns, etc. Because of this, I think it
may be possible to convince people that it's a "real" and "serious"
game. Most people aren't willing to take a game to any non-superficial
level unless they know such a community exists.

Sure, I like games where no one really knows what expert play looks
like, and you've got to figure out everything on your own. But most
people aren't like that. Since I'm not afraid of a little book
learning, I play these games so as to not be so lonely :-)

This suggests to me that in this day and age anyone close to a large town in a developed country should be able to do something similar if they really want to.

Don't get me wrong. I don't know much about International Draughts
yet, but if I really want to, I'm sure I can contact the Dutch
embassy, the Norwegian-Singalese friendship committe, the Senegalese
boys I met at a summer camp 8 years ago, all the local boardgaming
clubs, the newspapers, the "strange people around the country" TV show
(with myself as the exhibit), get two dozen 10x10 boards made, order
clocks, translate introductory materials, and get Oslo's first
International Draughts club rolling. That is if I _really_ want to.
It's still not rocket science.

But I think I really just want to get a board and some pieces, play
some games with my friends, and see if this is something worth going
further with first.

One of the most appealing things about checkers is that it is a game
with a community, and a history. Regular international tournaments,
official titles, newspaper columns, etc.

What you say is true of international draughts, and was once true of
8x8 Anglo-American checkers. Today, there is a small organized
checker community, a few tournaments, and little being published (my
weekly internet column is actually one of the few example, along with
some monthly association newsletters). The checkers era really ended
with the coming of television in the early 1950s.

But to return to the topic of this group: a big advantage for chess is
that you can go virtually anywhere and play. The rules are the same.
It is truly international. Checkers / draughts is fragmented, and the
same thing is not true. What you play in the U.K. will not be what
you play in France, and likely not what you play in Montreal, though
it *is* likely to be what you might play in Winnipeg. Even in the
U.S. you might play "straight" or you might play "pool" checkers
depending on the locale. In Italy it's different again ... and on and
on.

On Jun 10, 4:35 pm, " wrote:

Checkers / draughts is fragmented, and the
same thing is not true.

It's not too bad, though; it's pretty much the English-speaking world
against everywhere else... as usual.

John Savard

As a final follow-up in this thread, for those who read French, I do
recommend Jean Bernard Alemanni's book "Les jeux de dames dans le
monde" which is a wonderful and very well done overview of the
varieties of checkers and draughts played around the world. Mr.
Alemanni has uncovered a most surprising number of interesting
variants, many of which were quite new to me.

Harald Korneliussen wrote:

But I think I really just want to get a board and some pieces, play
some games with my friends, and see if this is something worth going
further with first.

If it's just you and your friends then all you need is a piece of board,
a rule (preferably a square, so the squares are, errrr, square) and a
magic marker. You'll have the pieces.

Total investment, half an hour of your time and maybe as much as a
couple of dollars, then if you decide it's worth going further then you
can think about a "proper" board.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quadibloc wrote:
On Jun 10, 12:28 pm, Quadibloc wrote:
On Jun 10, 10:14 am, "
wrote:

Unfortunately it may be a very small market. Even 8x8 checkerboards
that meet American Checker Federation specifications are uncommon
enoug, though not quite impossible to find.
Rich Hutnik raised this point before - basically, just as Fischer
preferred a white and dark-green chessboard, similarly, the official
colors for a checkerboard are now buff and dark green, or something
like that, to minimize eyestrain - not the traditional red and black,
which tends to maximize eyestrain.

The checkerboard that came with the Transogram 52 Game Treasure Chest,
though red and black, at least had the numbers from 1 through 32 on
the black squares!

My memory was right - green and buff for Checkers. Also, the pieces
need to be red and *white*, and the squares 2 inches in size, and the
pieces from 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches in diameter.

But why do you need to worry about what the American Checker Federation
thinks, unless you're playing their game in one of their tournaments?
It's like saying it's impossible to play Bridge if the cards aren't
exactly X by Y inches with approved court illustrations...

I play checkers on one of my chess boards, that don't conform to the
above but it's still the same game.

For Chess, the squares can be from 2 inches to 2 1/2 inches; as to the
size of the pieces, the guidelines are complicated, (3 3/8" to 4 1/2"
height for the King, and a base from 40% to 50% of that height) but
one manufacturer recommends the base of the King should be about 75%
of the size of the square for a good match.

So that means I don't play Chess when I use my rather smaller bone
pieces, often on a smaller board? It just means my set wouldn't get
used in a formal tournament.

This thread is increasingly convincing me that people are going out of
their way to find obstacles to playing games. One of the really great
things about games is they're /just games/, and it doesn't matter if the
squares are a micron under size and the pieces 1% off the correct colour
hue. You can still play them.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

wrote:
I have learned from this thread:
there are people in the US who want to buy 10x10 checkers boards
they don't know how, or are unwilling, to find a supplier outside the
US
such boards can be manufactured in the US, for little effort

This suggests a business opportunity.

Unfortunately it may be a very small market. Even 8x8 checkerboards
that meet American Checker Federation specifications are uncommon
enoug, though not quite impossible to find.

Then it'll be pin money rather than a business in its own right. Still
means more beer...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Jun 11, 1:58 am, Peter Clinch wrote:

So that means I don't play Chess when I use my rather smaller bone
pieces, often on a smaller board?

You are, at the least, playing a game isomorphic to Chess! This would
be true even if both players had their Kings and Queens reversed...

That wasn't my point at all, though. It was just interesting that only
the smallest allowed tournament chess board would also be a valid
checkerboard for tournament purposes. And I wanted to exhibit the spec
(for checkers) since it had been mentioned so much in the thread.

John Savard

But why do you need to worry about what the American Checker Federation
thinks, unless you're playing their game in one of their tournaments?

Of course, you don't need to worry about it at all. People play
checkers with the very common red and black boards with red and black
plastic pieces, and enjoy the game without further effort.

The ACF specs, though, call for a board and pieces that is very
pleasant to use, with appealing color combinations that are easy on
the eyes. The more common black plastic pieces on black squares can
be hard to see (maybe that's an advantage at times?) and I find the
red/black on red/black color combination harsh.

But yes, the game is the same, and I will play as poorly with one set
as I would with the other, I suppose.

I do feel that with chess sets it can make a larger difference. Some
chess sets are unpleasant to use, and some of the more outre designs
cause confusion. (Is that a Bishop? Or what is it anyhow?) I have a
large metal chess set which I like as an aesthetic ensemble (the king
weighs 18 ounces, I think, and doubles as a weapon) but it is not
especially useful for play, as under most lighting the black and white
pieces don't have nearly enough color contrast and it is too easy to
mistake a white piece for a black. The tournament specs however call
for boards and pieces that are generally easy to use and practical.
(Although there are exceptions! Once I played in an outdoor
tournament in Hawai`i, and sets which were "single weight" but still
up to tournament specs were literally blowing in the wind.)

Unfortunately it may be a very small market. Even 8x8 checkerboards
that meet American Checker Federation specifications are uncommon
enoug, though not quite impossible to find.

Then it'll be pin money rather than a business in its own right. Still
means more beer...

Then it is clearly worth doing