wrote in message
...
On Aug 14, 2:38 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:


I think the boat is still out on that one too - people do say 'chess-men'
but doesn't sound like chess players do, and its a recent archaism?

The man/piece distinction is one that beginners should learn, if
only because they will encounter it in chess literature. It doesn't
matter whether it comes up in conversation.

**I note your opinion Taylor, yet perhaps you are in the minority here, and
basically to include 'Man' would mean using patzer or even non-player terms
for words no longer current? After all, the course-work should be self
containing, and other possibilities in chess [the thousands of them] not
particularly relevant to its play at this level.

I [laugh] don't remember if Mickey Adams said this in an e-mail to me or in
our interview, but he said he picked up a chess book [such and such] and "it
was so old it was in descriptive notation". Man! Those were the /only/ books
I ever got hold of.

If it is, is Dan's
definition to your liking?

That definition is correct.

My Questions for PIECE are more varied, since among the 3 definitions we
have 3 contradictions!

Not really; it depends on context. I think the glossary entry makes
clear the context for each of the three meanings of "piece."

**They have internal contradictions.

I doubt that few readers will agree.

**Pardon? You maybe used an extra word in your sentence, since I also doubt
few readers will agree, and expect most to agree with me. But my task is to
present to students a term I can use, and so can they, provided I give them
a definition of it, not 3 definitions - if I say pieces, it can't mean just
anything - can't mean pieces and pawns, can't mean pieces not pawns, and
can't mean only minor pieces. I need to define one use of the word Pieces.
From other writing here this would seem to refer to "not-pawns", and which
is my own preference.

I suppose what I would most like to do
is to talk of pawns distinct from other men, or pieces, as the main
emphasis.

Feel free.

These may fairly represent the lose way we discuss
PIECES - but are there better terms to use? Does anyone here use Dan's
limited sense of piece in #3?

That meaning is seen very often in chess literature. I recall first
encountering it in Chernev's "Logical Chess" back in the mid-1960s, I
think. To "hang a piece," "win a piece," or "be up/down a piece," when
no specific piece is named, invariably refers to a minor piece,

**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,

Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

**Well okay, so is his usage current? Is it unambigous - I am NOT hear me
NOT writing an encyclopedia of every term ever used, however well, but want
to know the mainstream American terms for simple things! This is not
esoteric, and the function of the course is to learn chess play, not chess
esoterica or even chess history.

but what do people understand
by the term now? I personally wouldn't 'invariably' think it was a minor
piece, but hey! you guys are the Yanks!

That's right. We saved your bacon in the war, so be appropriately
grateful.

**You may have saved our bacon, saved it for yourselves, you Yankee devils,
you!

----------

To finish: one other thing and a criticism of Taylor's editing, which I
also
level at Chessville's efforts. Its to do with annotation. This particular
book sometimes illustrates the term by citing a move, but not always, as
in
Castling, it doesn't mention 0-0 or 0-0-0, or even if those are zeros or
capital 'o' s.

???? The relevance of this to "A Parent's Guide to Chess" is nil.
That book does not attempt to teach one how to play chess, nor much of
anything about chess notation,

**Yes - get over it Taylor, you are starting to get ****y already at infered
criticism. You can't show game scores until you teach people notation,
right? I said Dan's book is no better than Chessville for finding a good
notation to use. Brad's book is not in the Intermediate course, so I can't
use that. So where is one?

and certainly nothing about annotation.
The one brief mention of notation is on pages 75-76, the gist of it
being that one should learn algebraic notation, which is taught in
almost any beginner's book.
The glossary entry "Castle" is merely intended to explain the
mechanics of the castling move, and to differentiate the verb from the
noun, not to teach anything about notation.

**Get off being defensive! Other entries /do/ have annotations, in fact many
do. I think it is a draw-back in this book, but a wide-spread draw back to
many books! Its nothing particular /only/ about Dan's book! That is not any
emphasis I made.


There was a slight embarrassement I discovered in a trial with 2 beginners
in the Bardwick books, so that Brad explains chess annotation in chapter
3,

Phil, I think you mean notation, not annotation. Annotation is the
writing of explanatory and analytical notes to a game.

**Yes - I think that is the American usage, maybe universal now, as noted to
Mike.

but uses it in Chapter one. Both trial student and trial teacher had to
ask
me about it.

I didn't like Chessville's effort because it was too skimpy. Is there an
on-line copyright free document which covers chess annotation [short
algebraic will do] that anyone knows?

An online search for, say, "algebraic chess notation" will turn up
dozens of sites. Take your pick.

**Will it? I have looked. What I wanted to know from you Yanks is which of
the dozens you think fit? I am not writing here in order to learn how to
google, and I don't want answers which assert that any of 3 different
'definitions' are okay, unless of course, that is what players themselves
do, indiscriminately use terms.

Phil Innes

On Aug 14, 3:52 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:

**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,

Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

**Well okay, so is his usage current? Is it unambigous - I am NOT hear me
NOT writing an encyclopedia of every term ever used, however well, but want
to know the mainstream American terms for simple things!

And I told you the mainstream American usage of the term "piece" in
the context of "being up/down a piece," citing Chernev as an example
of a popular, widely read mainstream author who used it in that way.

This is not
esoteric, and the function of the course is to learn chess play, not chess
esoterica or even chess history.

No one ever said otherwise, least of all me.

**You may have saved our bacon, saved it for yourselves, you Yankee devils,
you!

You owed us big time, after what you did 1775-1781 and during the
War of 1812, if we're going to talk about devilish acts.

To finish: one other thing and a criticism of Taylor's editing, which I
also
level at Chessville's efforts. Its to do with annotation. This particular
book sometimes illustrates the term by citing a move, but not always, as
in
Castling, it doesn't mention 0-0 or 0-0-0, or even if those are zeros or
capital 'o' s.

???? The relevance of this to "A Parent's Guide to Chess" is nil.
That book does not attempt to teach one how to play chess, nor much of
anything about chess notation,

**Yes - get over it Taylor, you are starting to get ****y already at infered
criticism.

"Inferred" criticism?? Phil, I cite your own words: "one other thing
and a criticism of Taylor's editing". No inference needed -- you were
plainly and openly critical. You were also quite wrong. To fault
Heisman's book for not explaning "0-0" and "0-0-0" is like faulting a
recipe for not being a bus schedule.

You can't show game scores until you teach people notation,
right? I said Dan's book is no better than Chessville for finding a good
notation to use.

Of course it's no good for teaching notation. Neither is a compass
any good as a raincoat.

Brad's book is not in the Intermediate course, so I can't
use that. So where is one?

and certainly nothing about annotation.
The one brief mention of notation is on pages 75-76, the gist of it
being that one should learn algebraic notation, which is taught in
almost any beginner's book.
The glossary entry "Castle" is merely intended to explain the
mechanics of the castling move, and to differentiate the verb from the
noun, not to teach anything about notation.

**Get off being defensive!

I don't feel the least defensive toward you, Phil. Watching you try
to critique my work is like watching a fish try to ride a bicycle.

Other entries /do/ have annotations, in fact many
do. I think it is a draw-back in this book, but a wide-spread draw back to
many books! Its nothing particular /only/ about Dan's book!

Phil, you seem to be hallucinating again. There is not a single
annotation in "A Parent's Guide," unless one counts the "??" after
3...Nf6 in the illustration of Scholar's Mate on page 76.

An online search for, say, "algebraic chess notation" will turn up
dozens of sites. Take your pick.

**Will it?

Yes. Here is page one of the search results I got on MSN.com:

Web1-10 of 79,300 results$B!&(B Advanced
See also:Images, Video, News, Maps, More $B"'(BxRank
See all...Results Algebraic chess notation -

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Algebraic chess notation is used to record and describe the moves in a
game of chess. It is now standard among all chess organizations and
most books, magazines, and newspapers. In English speaking countries,
it replaced the parallel system of descriptive chess notation, which
became common in the 19th century, and was sporadically used as
recently as the 1980s or 1990s.
Naming squares on the ... $B!&(B Naming the pieces $B!&(B Notation for moves $B!&(B
Example

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_chess_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.... infix notation, the practice of representing a binary operator and
operands with the operator between the two operands (as in "2 + 2") In
chess, algebraic chess notation, one of the ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Show more results from en.wikipedia.org
Chess Tutorial : Chess Notation (1/6)
Chess notation gives us the means to record and publish chess games.
The most commonly used notation is algebraic, but it's useful to know
the older descriptive notation.

chess.about.com/od/beginners/ss/ble21brd.htm $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic Chess Notation
Here is a partial game score showing the use of algebraic chess
notation. ... More from About.com. Work Hard, Travel Easy The best
tips for business travelers.

chess.about.com/library/ble21zan.htm $B!&(B Cached page
Show more results from chess.about.com
Think You Know Algebraic Notation? - Chess.com
Note added on Jan 15, 2007: Max Wootton (mxdplay4 here on chess.com)
has discovered some errors in my calculations. We are corresponding on
this topic and when all corrections ...

blog.chess.com/kurtgodden/think-you-know-algebraic-notation $B!&(B Cached
page
Algebraic Chess Notation - How to - ChessHouse.com
You're going to quickly learn everything you need to know about
reading and writing chess moves, called

http://www.chesshouse.com/how_to_rea...tion_a/166.htm $B!&(B
Cached page
Duif's Place: Chess Notation
Duif's Place Chess Guide: How to Read Chess Notation. Duif's Place
includes information for fans and tournament players, as well as
special chess info for kids. ... Duif's Place

www.jaderiver.com/chess/notate.html $B!&(B Cached page
ChessNotation.com --- Descriptive Chess Notation
.... location), and any resulting effect (capture, promotion, check,
checkmate, etc.). There are two main types of chess notation:
descriptive and algebraic. 'Chess notation' can ...

www.chessnotation.com $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic notation - WikiChess
Algebraic notation is a way to record chess games. Each square is
given a specific label. Starting at White's left hand, the files are
labeled from left to right with letters of ...

chess.wikia.com/wiki/Algebraic_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Chessville - Misc. - Codes, etc. - Notation - Algebraic
If you have disabled Java for your browser, use the Site Map (linked
in the header and footer).

http://www.chessville.com/misc/misc_..._algebraic.htm $B!&(B Cached
page

12345Next

wrote in message
...
On Aug 14, 3:52 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:

**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,

Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

**Well okay, so is his usage current? Is it unambigous - I am NOT hear me
NOT writing an encyclopedia of every term ever used, however well, but
want
to know the mainstream American terms for simple things!

And I told you the mainstream American usage of the term "piece" in
the context of "being up/down a piece," citing Chernev as an example
of a popular, widely read mainstream author who used it in that way.

** Please stop these protests! He may be widely read, but what is widely
understood? Is it ONLY his definition? If not, its okay to say so. But 2
other people have written in to say they prefer to differentiate pieces and
pawns - so lets say the evidence thus far is that widely read does not equal
widely used in 2008.


This is not
esoteric, and the function of the course is to learn chess play, not
chess
esoterica or even chess history.

No one ever said otherwise, least of all me.

Yes you did - you /specifically/ diverted to older books saying you think
students /should/ understand their terms.


**Yes - get over it Taylor, you are starting to get ****y already at
infered
criticism.

"Inferred" criticism?? Phil, I cite your own words: "one other thing
and a criticism of Taylor's editing". No inference needed -- you were
plainly and openly critical.

But you fail to see that such 'criticism' is not the American sort, which is
always about people - and I was AT PAINS to say that Chessville did no
better. It is a criticism of absense of basic information, not of you
personally.

You were also quite wrong. To fault
Heisman's book for not explaning "0-0" and "0-0-0" is like faulting a
recipe for not being a bus schedule.

And you now insist on being criticised!

Its a fault in the books glossary, and since you insist on it being
personal - then it is also your fault for not noticing that some items are
notated and seemingly at random others are not. If you want person cricism
instead of critique then you have it.

Happy now?

But only a moron could go on about this when my context is -said 3 times
this day!- to try to find a royalty free on-line annotation that Americans
currently use.

Any other context here is of your own contriving.


You can't show game scores until you teach people notation,
right? I said Dan's book is no better than Chessville for finding a good
notation to use.

Of course it's no good for teaching notation. Neither is a compass
any good as a raincoat.

What? What is the intended meaning of thos esentences in response to what I
wrote. YOU CANT DO GAME SCORES BEFORE YOU DO NOTATION - get it? SO IF YOU
INCLUDE GAME SCORES PEOPLE CANT READ THEM. If you do not understand yet,
please don;t reply. Please instead insist that I insult your intelligence,
which in this instance, would be true.

The glossary entry "Castle" is merely intended to explain the
mechanics of the castling move, and to differentiate the verb from the
noun, not to teach anything about notation.

**Get off being defensive!

I don't feel the least defensive toward you, Phil. Watching you try
to critique my work is like watching a fish try to ride a bicycle.

O **** off Taylor - you are the most precious and ****ist twit writing here,
who insists on being affronted, the sooner trhe better!

Other entries /do/ have annotations, in fact many
do. I think it is a draw-back in this book, but a wide-spread draw back
to
many books! Its nothing particular /only/ about Dan's book!

Phil, you seem to be hallucinating again. There is not a single
annotation in "A Parent's Guide," unless one counts the "??" after
3...Nf6 in the illustration of Scholar's Mate on page 76.

I AM NOT


NOT

ONLY TALKING ABOUT DAN'S BOOK.

I am saying this appears in many books, it IS a fault. It is not an
hallucination. These are your emphatic insistances, and you can't even
rember what teh hell I asked, and why I asked it, instead you get ****y. As
usual.

An online search for, say, "algebraic chess notation" will turn up
dozens of sites. Take your pick.

**Will it?

Yes. Here is page one of the search results I got on MSN.com:

But you cut my question!~ Which one do you like, since I have looked at
dozens of them - Wikipedia's seemed quite inadequate. Now, if you wish to
reply at all, you will answer just what I asked, and say why you like the
source.

If you want to answer a direct question that is. If you don't then you can
do as you have done before, ignored what people say in order to consult
databases, or become personally offended.

Phil Innes

Web1-10 of 79,300 results$B!&(B Advanced
See also:Images, Video, News, Maps, More $B"'(BxRank
See all...Results Algebraic chess notation -

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Algebraic chess notation is used to record and describe the moves in a
game of chess. It is now standard among all chess organizations and
most books, magazines, and newspapers. In English speaking countries,
it replaced the parallel system of descriptive chess notation, which
became common in the 19th century, and was sporadically used as
recently as the 1980s or 1990s.
Naming squares on the ... $B!&(B Naming the pieces $B!&(B Notation for moves $B!&(B
Example

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_chess_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... infix notation, the practice of representing a binary operator and
operands with the operator between the two operands (as in "2 + 2") In
chess, algebraic chess notation, one of the ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Show more results from en.wikipedia.org
Chess Tutorial : Chess Notation (1/6)
Chess notation gives us the means to record and publish chess games.
The most commonly used notation is algebraic, but it's useful to know
the older descriptive notation.

chess.about.com/od/beginners/ss/ble21brd.htm $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic Chess Notation
Here is a partial game score showing the use of algebraic chess
notation. ... More from About.com. Work Hard, Travel Easy The best
tips for business travelers.

chess.about.com/library/ble21zan.htm $B!&(B Cached page
Show more results from chess.about.com
Think You Know Algebraic Notation? - Chess.com
Note added on Jan 15, 2007: Max Wootton (mxdplay4 here on chess.com)
has discovered some errors in my calculations. We are corresponding on
this topic and when all corrections ...

blog.chess.com/kurtgodden/think-you-know-algebraic-notation $B!&(B Cached
page
Algebraic Chess Notation - How to - ChessHouse.com
You're going to quickly learn everything you need to know about
reading and writing chess moves, called

http://www.chesshouse.com/how_to_rea...tion_a/166.htm $B!&(B
Cached page
Duif's Place: Chess Notation
Duif's Place Chess Guide: How to Read Chess Notation. Duif's Place
includes information for fans and tournament players, as well as
special chess info for kids. ... Duif's Place

www.jaderiver.com/chess/notate.html $B!&(B Cached page
ChessNotation.com --- Descriptive Chess Notation
... location), and any resulting effect (capture, promotion, check,
checkmate, etc.). There are two main types of chess notation:
descriptive and algebraic. 'Chess notation' can ...

www.chessnotation.com $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic notation - WikiChess
Algebraic notation is a way to record chess games. Each square is
given a specific label. Starting at White's left hand, the files are
labeled from left to right with letters of ...

chess.wikia.com/wiki/Algebraic_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Chessville - Misc. - Codes, etc. - Notation - Algebraic
If you have disabled Java for your browser, use the Site Map (linked
in the header and footer).

http://www.chessville.com/misc/misc_..._algebraic.htm $B!&(B Cached
page

12345Next

Let me just re-state the essential element of what I was looking for in
terms of non-copyrighted notational instruction available on-line in
[preferably] short algebraic for American kids.

(1) Although Susan Polgar has a chess instructional course out there, free
and on-line, which contains an explanation of notation, I have requested it
5 times but never received one, so I cannot use that. I really am wild
enough [objective!] to "criticise" that, and also other materials, including
Chessville's own, for the same presumtive fault.

(2) The situation that you should imagine is that the young player can
already play chess. The //likelihood// is that a male family member taught
them it by explaining it directly and verbally; dad, uncle, or older cousin,
and that the likelihood is that such players have never read a chess book!
Therefore they can play, enjoy playing, and may even be good at it. But
unable to read game scores.

(3) Most chess notation is contained in beginner books, which the student
will already have completed in the parents & children beginner course, if
they initially knew nothing at all and took that course 0- which is the
recommendation. But for those who were taught, ad hoc, by dad, mom, uncle
auntie, etc, they will not be able to read a game score or even know what
one is. It is for these people that I anticipate the worth of your
recommendation to be valuable.

Thank you once more for attending to these simple issues: simply is
difficult. Ever was, will be.

If you have some recommendation will you please say why you think your
choice a good one?

Cordially, Phil Innes

On Aug 14, 4:57 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Aug 14, 3:52 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:

**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,

Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

**Well okay, so is his usage current? Is it unambigous - I am NOT hear me
NOT writing an encyclopedia of every term ever used, however well, but
want
to know the mainstream American terms for simple things!

And I told you the mainstream American usage of the term "piece" in
the context of "being up/down a piece," citing Chernev as an example
of a popular, widely read mainstream author who used it in that way.

** Please stop these protests! He may be widely read, but what is widely
understood? Is it ONLY his definition? If not, its okay to say so. But 2
other people have written in to say they prefer to differentiate pieces and
pawns - so lets say the evidence thus far is that widely read does not equal
widely used in 2008.

This is not
esoteric, and the function of the course is to learn chess play, not
chess
esoterica or even chess history.

No one ever said otherwise, least of all me.

Yes you did - you /specifically/ diverted to older books saying you think
students /should/ understand their terms.

**Yes - get over it Taylor, you are starting to get ****y already at
infered
criticism.

"Inferred" criticism?? Phil, I cite your own words: "one other thing
and a criticism of Taylor's editing". No inference needed -- you were
plainly and openly critical.

But you fail to see that such 'criticism' is not the American sort, which is
always about people - and I was AT PAINS to say that Chessville did no
better. It is a criticism of absense of basic information, not of you
personally.

You were also quite wrong. To fault
Heisman's book for not explaning "0-0" and "0-0-0" is like faulting a
recipe for not being a bus schedule.

And you now insist on being criticised!

Its a fault in the books glossary, and since you insist on it being
personal - then it is also your fault for not noticing that some items are
notated and seemingly at random others are not. If you want person cricism
instead of critique then you have it.

Happy now?

But only a moron could go on about this when my context is -said 3 times
this day!- to try to find a royalty free on-line annotation that Americans
currently use.

Any other context here is of your own contriving.

You can't show game scores until you teach people notation,
right? I said Dan's book is no better than Chessville for finding a good
notation to use.

Of course it's no good for teaching notation. Neither is a compass
any good as a raincoat.

What? What is the intended meaning of thos esentences in response to what I
wrote. YOU CANT DO GAME SCORES BEFORE YOU DO NOTATION - get it? SO IF YOU
INCLUDE GAME SCORES PEOPLE CANT READ THEM. If you do not understand yet,
please don;t reply. Please instead insist that I insult your intelligence,
which in this instance, would be true.

The glossary entry "Castle" is merely intended to explain the
mechanics of the castling move, and to differentiate the verb from the
noun, not to teach anything about notation.

**Get off being defensive!

I don't feel the least defensive toward you, Phil. Watching you try
to critique my work is like watching a fish try to ride a bicycle.

O **** off Taylor - you are the most precious and ****ist twit writing here,
who insists on being affronted, the sooner trhe better!

Other entries /do/ have annotations, in fact many
do. I think it is a draw-back in this book, but a wide-spread draw back
to
many books! Its nothing particular /only/ about Dan's book!

Phil, you seem to be hallucinating again. There is not a single
annotation in "A Parent's Guide," unless one counts the "??" after
3...Nf6 in the illustration of Scholar's Mate on page 76.

I AM NOT

NOT

ONLY TALKING ABOUT DAN'S BOOK.

I am saying this appears in many books, it IS a fault. It is not an
hallucination. These are your emphatic insistances, and you can't even
rember what teh hell I asked, and why I asked it, instead you get ****y. As
usual.

An online search for, say, "algebraic chess notation" will turn up
dozens of sites. Take your pick.

**Will it?

Yes. Here is page one of the search results I got on MSN.com:

But you cut my question!~ Which one do you like, since I have looked at
dozens of them - Wikipedia's seemed quite inadequate. Now, if you wish to
reply at all, you will answer just what I asked, and say why you like the
source.

If you want to answer a direct question that is. If you don't then you can
do as you have done before, ignored what people say in order to consult
databases, or become personally offended.

Phil Innes



Web1-10 of 79,300 results$B!&(B Advanced
See also:Images, Video, News, Maps, More $B"'(BxRank
See all...Results Algebraic chess notation -

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Algebraic chess notation is used to record and describe the moves in a
game of chess. It is now standard among all chess organizations and
most books, magazines, and newspapers. In English speaking countries,
it replaced the parallel system of descriptive chess notation, which
became common in the 19th century, and was sporadically used as
recently as the 1980s or 1990s.
Naming squares on the ... $B!&(B Naming the pieces $B!&(B Notation for moves $B!&(B
Example

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_chess_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
... infix notation, the practice of representing a binary operator and
operands with the operator between the two operands (as in "2 + 2") In
chess, algebraic chess notation, one of the ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_notation $B!&(B Cached page
Show more results from en.wikipedia.org
Chess Tutorial : Chess Notation (1/6)
Chess notation gives us the means to record and publish chess games.
The most commonly used notation is algebraic, but it's useful to know
the older descriptive notation.

chess.about.com/od/beginners/ss/ble21brd.htm $B!&(B Cached page
Algebraic Chess Notation
Here is a partial game score showing the use of algebraic chess
notation. ... More from About.com. Work Hard, Travel Easy The best
tips for business travelers.

chess.about.com/library/ble21zan.htm $B!&(B Cached page
Show more results from chess.about.com
Think You Know Algebraic Notation? - Chess.com
Note added on Jan 15, 2007: Max Wootton (mxdplay4 here on chess.com)
has discovered some errors in my calculations. We are corresponding on
this topic and when all corrections ...

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Algebraic Chess Notation - How to - ChessHouse.com
You're going to quickly learn everything you need to know about
reading and writing chess moves, called

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Duif's Place: Chess Notation
Duif's Place Chess Guide: How to Read Chess Notation. Duif's Place
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special chess info for kids. ... Duif's Place

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ChessNotation.com --- Descriptive Chess Notation
... location), and any resulting effect (capture, promotion, check,
checkmate, etc.). There are two main types of chess notation:
descriptive and algebraic. 'Chess notation' can ...

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Algebraic notation - WikiChess
Algebraic notation is a way to record chess games. Each square is
given a specific label. Starting at White's left hand, the files are
labeled from left to right with letters of ...

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Chessville - Misc. - Codes, etc. - Notation - Algebraic
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Ah, Phil, it is such a delight to watch you twitch and froth. And
your display of abysmal ignorance was by itself worth the price of
admission. "Who translated Chernev?" -- Lord, but that is rich.

wrote:
On Aug 14, 3:52 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,
Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

Did he also write in Olde English?


--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://KennethRSloan.com/

On Aug 14, 8:52 pm, Kenneth Sloan wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 14, 3:52 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,
Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

Did he also write in Olde English?

And was it Olde English the dead language?

On Aug 14, 6:01*pm, "Chess One" wrote:

Thank you once more for attending to these simple issues: simply is
difficult. Ever was, will be.

If you have some recommendation will you please say why you think your
choice a good one?

Two choices he 1) admit that the USA is well
behind the curve and go with algebraic notation,
the metric system, etc., or 2) remain in denial
and tell people they must learn both descriptive
and algebraic, and further, tell them that outdated
works by writers like, say, Mr. Horowitz, Mr.
Chernev and Mr. Reinfeld are their best bets for
learning chess (a bold move, if admittedly stupid).

Oh, and write the elementary explanation of how
algebraic notation works in modern English-- not
O.E., M.E. or Andean.


One other thing: I noticed that there are some
questions concerning the meaning of terms such
as chess "man" versus chess "piece", and even
confusion as to what constitutes a piece (major,
minor, or both). For this it may be helpful to
mention the vastly inferior game of checkers (or
draughts), where a "man" represents a token on
a square and all "men" are of the same, low
value (much like the majority here in rgc) --until
crowned.

The thing is, the questions posed seemed to
completely ignore the fact that the rules of the
game of chess themselves define the answer.
In the rule book, a "man" is defined and the
term is then used; thus, it is ludicrous to try
and pretend that "all chess men" can be called
"pieces" AND that we can easily do away with
the supposedly outmoded term chess "man",
simplifying. (Well, the rules can always be
revised or rewritten.)

Lastly, I think it is high time the term chess
"man" was changed to better reflect our
modern attitudes; is it not true that chess
"person" would serve just as well? And is it
not hopeless bigotry to give infinite value to
chess person Kings, while at the same time
allowing chess person Queens to be captured
and traded on a whim? What does this sort
of gender bias say about our culture in this
modern age? Is democracy only a term to
be applied to /men/-- all of whom are
purported to have been created equal? These
are the real questions your readers need to
address; not just how to notate chess games,
but how to see and understand the world in
general.


-- help bot

Ah, Phil, it is such a delight to watch you twitch and froth. And
your display of abysmal ignorance was by itself worth the price of
admission. "Who translated Chernev?" -- Lord, but that is rich.

Ah, Taylor, you added your note to a thousand words above, while not
answering the question I asked, and instead changed the subject to your own
by suggesting students should learn things that others here already said
were a bit dusty - or indeed, patzer terms.

Of course, you are ****y about it since you said you were editor of the
title, and even though you gain no agreement you are still amused and
self-righteous, and continue to insist on Russian Emigree Triumphalism circa
1945, however well they spoke their English.

I have no idea of Chernev's language facility, but he was certainly not
acculturated here, and his The Russians Play Chess could have been a
cultural-political tract written by Kotov - and I merely had the temerity to
ask in MY context of what people say in 2008, if they do actually follow
terms Chernev used in 1945, eg. Which seemed to be /your/ recommendation.

Apparently not.

Phil Innes

"Kenneth Sloan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Aug 14, 3:52 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
wrote in message

On Aug 14, 12:49 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
**um, well, don't know who translated Chernev,
Chernev wrote in English, Phil. He was born in Russia but came to
the USA at about age 4.

Did he also write in Olde English?

Actually, a good point!

English was his second language, and I have no idea of the facility of his
parents in English and suppose any English would have come late to him - and
since I have quoted from his works extensively, [more than anyone here] I
always doubted how much English he could express, and what text was his and
what of his editors?

I assumed from the often mannered phrasing that his work was translated.
Surely he used words like 'piquant' and 'impress' correctly, and indeed, his
adjectives are somewhat rich for a text book of chess annotation, even
somewhat /superior/ to the writings of native speakers at the time.

But much of his phrasing is Russian, especially in the frequant avoidance of
the definite article, 40 word unpunctuated sentences 'as wide as Taiga!'
[lol] and just as commonly, his infinitive verb forms combat randomly with
his Western apostrophies.

As to Old[e] English, if you are going to add that 'e', then you should also
use either Englisc or Englische. Though all 3 are spellings just as common
in the Anglo Saxon Chronicles as the simple 'old' and 'english', and
sometimes several versions of each word appear in the same document.

Its the sound which is important Ken, not the spelling. In the beginning was
the Word, not the text recording the word.

Tell me sometime if you understand such subtleties of logical sequencing, or
indeed, anything at all.

Phil Innes


--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences +1-205-932-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX +1-205-934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://KennethRSloan.com/