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Mark Taimanov



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 28th 16, 04:52 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Mark Taimanov

Mark Taimanov died today.

I interviewed Mark once upon a time, and he also annotated a game he lost — it was game 3 against Fischer. He spent 70 minutes on one move, the longest in his career he said, but didn't find the right move. It obsessed him and over the years he tried to find the answer 'not even super-computers could find it', he said, 'and not even Kasparov.' But he did eventually, about 20 years later.

Ridiculously the only language Mark and I had in common was Latin, nolens volens!

One thing he remarked upon in the interview was the plight of modern young chess players of worth in Russia, who only had chess, and sometimes a set back would be shattering psychologically, 'whereas' he said 'I always had my music.'

Phil Innes
  #2  
Old November 30th 16, 09:18 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
Quadibloc
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Default Mark Taimanov

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 9:52:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Mark Taimanov died today.


I interviewed Mark once upon a time, and he also annotated a game he lost — it
was game 3 against Fischer. He spent 70 minutes on one move, the longest in his
career he said, but didn't find the right move. It obsessed him and over the
years he tried to find the answer 'not even super-computers could find it', he
said, 'and not even Kasparov.' But he did eventually, about 20 years later.

  #3  
Old November 30th 16, 09:29 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
Quadibloc
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Default Mark Taimanov

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

The score of the game, up to the move in question, is given as:

W: Taimanov B: Fischer

1. P-Q4 N-KB3
2. P-QB4 P-KN3
3. N-QB3 B-N2
4. P-K4 P-Q3
5. N-KB3 O-O
6. B-K2 P-K4
7. O-O N-B3
8. P-Q5 N-K2
9. B-Q2 N-K1
10. R-B1 P-KB4
11. Q-N3 P-N3
12. PxP PxP
13. N-KN5 N-B3
14. P-B4 P-KR3
15. PxP PxP
16. P-B5 N/3xP
17. NxN NxN
18. PxP RPxP
19. R-B6 K-R1
20. N-B3


Further searching has enabled me to determine that the game was in the Candidate's match between Fischer and Taimanov which was held in Vancouver. The score of the game in algebraic notation is:

1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 g6
3. Nc3 Bg7
4. e4 d6
5. Nf3 O-O
6. Be2 e5
7. O-O Nc6
8. d5 Ne7
9. Bd2 Ne8
10. Rc1 f5
11. Qb3 b6
12. exf5 gxf5
13. Ng5 Nf6
14. f4 h6
15. fxe5 dxe5
16. c5! Nfxd5
17. Nxd5 Nxd5
18. cxb6 axb6
19. Rc6! Kh8
20. Nf3

and at this point, Michail Tal, annotating, gives Qh3! as the recommended move,
but he terms it as "more obvious" compared to the move actually played, which
again makes me wonder if this could be the move that Taimanov took 20 years to
find.

Instead, presumably he found one that was even better... does anyone know what
it was?

John Savard
  #4  
Old November 30th 16, 09:35 AM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
Quadibloc
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Default Mark Taimanov

Now I have found that in writing of the game, Taimanov notes he considered Qh3,
but after analyzing it, he became disillusioned with it, not believing it would
allow him to win, as he believed he should be able to do from the position.
Another move he considered was Rd1.

And the poor move he did choose was because he used up too much nervous energy on
his analysis of Qh3.

John Savard


  #5  
Old December 4th 16, 02:11 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Mark Taimanov

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 4:29:44 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 2:18:52 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

The score of the game, up to the move in question, is given as:

W: Taimanov B: Fischer

1. P-Q4 N-KB3
2. P-QB4 P-KN3
3. N-QB3 B-N2
4. P-K4 P-Q3
5. N-KB3 O-O
6. B-K2 P-K4
7. O-O N-B3
8. P-Q5 N-K2
9. B-Q2 N-K1
10. R-B1 P-KB4
11. Q-N3 P-N3
12. PxP PxP
13. N-KN5 N-B3
14. P-B4 P-KR3
15. PxP PxP
16. P-B5 N/3xP
17. NxN NxN
18. PxP RPxP
19. R-B6 K-R1
20. N-B3


Further searching has enabled me to determine that the game was in the Candidate's match between Fischer and Taimanov which was held in Vancouver. The score of the game in algebraic notation is:

1. d4 Nf6
2. c4 g6
3. Nc3 Bg7
4. e4 d6
5. Nf3 O-O
6. Be2 e5
7. O-O Nc6
8. d5 Ne7
9. Bd2 Ne8
10. Rc1 f5
11. Qb3 b6
12. exf5 gxf5
13. Ng5 Nf6
14. f4 h6
15. fxe5 dxe5
16. c5! Nfxd5
17. Nxd5 Nxd5
18. cxb6 axb6
19. Rc6! Kh8
20. Nf3

and at this point, Michail Tal, annotating, gives Qh3! as the recommended move,
but he terms it as "more obvious" compared to the move actually played, which
again makes me wonder if this could be the move that Taimanov took 20 years to
find.

Instead, presumably he found one that was even better... does anyone know what
it was?


Yes — but I have been trying to exhume two things from chessville, the interview and also the analysis of the game score.

Wiki says my interview with Mark is
Mark Taimanov - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Taimanov
Mark Evgenievich Taimanov was one of the leading Soviet and Russian chess players, among .... Chessville – Interviews – 20 Questions with GM Mark Taimanov · Grandmaster Profile: GM Mark Taimanov · Mark E Taimanov rating card at FIDE ...

And Yes, Tal is correct, but not for that move, there is an incredible sequence of moves which must be found, in fact 2 sequences.

Taimanov's full comments and analysis are contained in his book "I was Fischer's Victim" and in fact he sent me a copy of it — at the time we were trying to get it translated into English, so I sent it to a source in London, but the book never came back. I'll look a bit more on line.

Phil Innes




John Savard

  #6  
Old December 4th 16, 02:19 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Mark Taimanov


Here is a report by third party including a few Taimanov comments.


Soon after the Palma de Mallorca Interzonal (1970) qualifier was held, the first stage (the quarterfinals) of the Candidates matches was held in four cities in May 1971. In Vancouver, Canada there was a 10 game match between Mark Taimanov and Bobby Fischer, played May 16th - June 1st.
Fischer sensationally won the match with a perfect score of 6-0, thereby proceeding to the Fischer - Larsen Candidates Semifinal (1971).

After the event, Taimanov was famously reported to have said, "At least I still have my music." He wasn't being merely melodramatic: the consequences of this loss were to haunt him for years. Taimanov later recounted in an interview with Joel Lautier:

"Until the match with Fischer in 1971, everything went smoothly in my chess career. This dramatic match changed my life into hell."

"As Fischer himself admitted at the time, the final score did not reflect the true balance of strength. The terrible feeling that I was playing against a machine which never made any mistake shattered my resistance. Fischer would never concede any weakening of his position, he was an incredibly tough defender. The third game proved to be the turning point of the match. After a pretty tactical sequence, I had managed to set my opponent serious problems. In a position that I considered to be winning, I could not find a way to break through his defenses. For every promising idea, I found an answer for Fischer, I engrossed myself in a very deep think which did not produce any positive result. Frustrated and exhausted, I avoided the critical line in the end and lost the thread of the game, which lead to my defeat eventually. Ten years later, I found at last how I should have won that fatal game, but unfortunately, it didn't matter anymore! I have written a book about this match, entitled How I Became Fischer's Victim, it represents an essay on the American player and describes how I perceived his style and personality, once the match was over."

"The sanctions from the Soviet government were severe. I was deprived of my civil rights, my salary was taken away from me, I was prohibited from travelling abroad and censored in the press. It was unthinkable for the authorities that a Soviet grandmaster could lose in such a way to an American, without a political explanation. I therefore became the object of slander and was accused, among other things, of secretly reading books of Solzhenitsin. I was banned from society for two years, it was also the time when I separated from my first wife, Lyubov Bruk."


Phil Innes
  #7  
Old December 4th 16, 02:25 PM posted to rec.games.chess.misc
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Default Mark Taimanov

FOUND IT!

Somewhere deep in my computer I found it!

Will put it up later with its own title which will likely be

A Defeat Which Could Not Be Forgotten



Phil Innes
 




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