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Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 03, 07:38 PM
Fredrik Acosta
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Posts: n/a
Default Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929

Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929
===================================

I have found different stories and versions about this (in-)famous game.

Several authors tell about the "short" game.

Version I
=========
Samisch - Capablanca J [E33/06]
Karlsbad, 1929

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bg5 e5 7.d5 Ne7 8.Qa4+
etc. 1-0


Version II
==========
Saemisch F - Capablanca J [E24/02]
Karlsbad, 1929

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 d6 6.f3 e5 7.e4 Nc6 8.Be3 b6
9.Bd3 Ba6 10.Qa4 Bb7 11.d5 Qd7 12.dxc6 Bxc6 13.Qc2 0-0-0 14.Ne2 Qe6 15.Bg5
h6 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.0-0 h5 18.f4 Qh6 19.Rae1 Rhe8 20.f5 Qe3+ 21.Kh1 Qc5
22.Qc1 f6 23.Rf3 Rh8 24.Qb2 a5 25.Rb1 h4 26.Nd4 Bd7 27.Nb3 Qc6 28.Nxa5 Qa8
29.Nb3 h3 30.g3 g6 31.fxg6 f5 32.Qc2 Rhg8 33.Nd2 f4 34.gxf4 Rxg6 35.f5 Rg2
36.Rg1 Rdg8 37.Rxg2 hxg2+ 38.Kg1 Qxa3 39.Rg3 Rxg3 40.hxg3 Ba4 41.Qb1 Qxc3
42.Nf3 Bb3 43.Kxg2 Bxc4 44.Bxc4 Qxc4 45.Kf2 d5 46.exd5 e4 47.Nd2 Qxd5
48.Ke2 Qxf5 49.Qxe4 Qb5+ 50.Kf3 Qa5 51.Nc4 Qa1 52.g4 Qf1+ 53.Kg3 Qg1+
54.Kh4 Qh2+ 55.Kg5 Kb8 56.Kg6 Ka7 57.g5 b5 58.Ne5 c5 59.Qd5 Qc2+ 60.Kf6 b4
61.g6 b3 62.g7 1-0


Both versions contain a big blunder by Capablanca, but to me version II
seems to be more likely (Sämisch would choose his own system with 4.a3),
and it is also the one I found from sources I trust more.

- Who played game Version I?
- Is Version I just a hoax?
- Why do some otherwise serious authors still refer to Version I?

Can someone go to the sources and tell me which one of the two versions is
correct?

--
Fredrik Acosta
Örnehufvudsgatan 3, 412 59 Göteborg, Sverige/Sweden
Phone: +46 31 161231, GSM: +46 707 461231, Fax: +46 707 110166
  #2  
Old July 6th 03, 08:27 PM
Gilbert Palmer
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Posts: n/a
Default Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929

See page 325 of "Capablanca A compedium of Games, Notes, Articles,
Correspondence, Illustrations and other Rare Archival Materials on the Cuban
Chess Genius Jose Raul Capablanca" As scholarly an attempt to take the fun
and enjoyment out of chess as you will find for around forty quid.

The 62 move version is the correct one fromt he toournament book.

The 8 move game you quote is not a hoax is is also genuine - but - and as
you will probably imagine the but is of somewhat gargantuan proportions -
the player of the black peices was Mercedes Alara de Capablanca, the great
man's cousin's daughter (i.e. his second cousin once removed) who played in
a dodgy simultaneous on the evening of the opening of the tournament.

I have no idea why any author should wish to quote game two as a game by an
ex-world champion.

Hope this helps








"Fredrik Acosta" wrote in message
.. .
Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929
===================================

I have found different stories and versions about this (in-)famous game.

Several authors tell about the "short" game.

Version I
=========
Samisch - Capablanca J [E33/06]
Karlsbad, 1929

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bg5 e5 7.d5 Ne7 8.Qa4+
etc. 1-0


Version II
==========
Saemisch F - Capablanca J [E24/02]
Karlsbad, 1929

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 d6 6.f3 e5 7.e4 Nc6 8.Be3 b6
9.Bd3 Ba6 10.Qa4 Bb7 11.d5 Qd7 12.dxc6 Bxc6 13.Qc2 0-0-0 14.Ne2 Qe6 15.Bg5
h6 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.0-0 h5 18.f4 Qh6 19.Rae1 Rhe8 20.f5 Qe3+ 21.Kh1 Qc5
22.Qc1 f6 23.Rf3 Rh8 24.Qb2 a5 25.Rb1 h4 26.Nd4 Bd7 27.Nb3 Qc6 28.Nxa5 Qa8
29.Nb3 h3 30.g3 g6 31.fxg6 f5 32.Qc2 Rhg8 33.Nd2 f4 34.gxf4 Rxg6 35.f5 Rg2
36.Rg1 Rdg8 37.Rxg2 hxg2+ 38.Kg1 Qxa3 39.Rg3 Rxg3 40.hxg3 Ba4 41.Qb1 Qxc3
42.Nf3 Bb3 43.Kxg2 Bxc4 44.Bxc4 Qxc4 45.Kf2 d5 46.exd5 e4 47.Nd2 Qxd5
48.Ke2 Qxf5 49.Qxe4 Qb5+ 50.Kf3 Qa5 51.Nc4 Qa1 52.g4 Qf1+ 53.Kg3 Qg1+
54.Kh4 Qh2+ 55.Kg5 Kb8 56.Kg6 Ka7 57.g5 b5 58.Ne5 c5 59.Qd5 Qc2+ 60.Kf6 b4
61.g6 b3 62.g7 1-0


Both versions contain a big blunder by Capablanca, but to me version II
seems to be more likely (Sämisch would choose his own system with 4.a3),
and it is also the one I found from sources I trust more.

- Who played game Version I?
- Is Version I just a hoax?
- Why do some otherwise serious authors still refer to Version I?

Can someone go to the sources and tell me which one of the two versions is
correct?

--
Fredrik Acosta
Örnehufvudsgatan 3, 412 59 Göteborg, Sverige/Sweden
Phone: +46 31 161231, GSM: +46 707 461231, Fax: +46 707 110166



  #3  
Old July 6th 03, 08:35 PM
ChessliB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929

You can download the 230 games played in the 1929-Karlsbad tournament
from ChessliB:

http://www.uib.no/people/pfvaf/chess...9-Karlsbad.exe

-af-

"Fredrik Acosta" wrote in message
.. .
Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929
===================================

I have found different stories and versions about this (in-)famous game.

Several authors tell about the "short" game.

Version I
=========
Samisch - Capablanca J [E33/06]
Karlsbad, 1929

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Qc2 Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bg5 e5 7.d5 Ne7 8.Qa4+
etc. 1-0


Version II
==========
Saemisch F - Capablanca J [E24/02]
Karlsbad, 1929

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 d6 6.f3 e5 7.e4 Nc6 8.Be3 b6
9.Bd3 Ba6 10.Qa4 Bb7 11.d5 Qd7 12.dxc6 Bxc6 13.Qc2 0-0-0 14.Ne2 Qe6 15.Bg5
h6 16.Bxf6 Qxf6 17.0-0 h5 18.f4 Qh6 19.Rae1 Rhe8 20.f5 Qe3+ 21.Kh1 Qc5
22.Qc1 f6 23.Rf3 Rh8 24.Qb2 a5 25.Rb1 h4 26.Nd4 Bd7 27.Nb3 Qc6 28.Nxa5 Qa8
29.Nb3 h3 30.g3 g6 31.fxg6 f5 32.Qc2 Rhg8 33.Nd2 f4 34.gxf4 Rxg6 35.f5 Rg2
36.Rg1 Rdg8 37.Rxg2 hxg2+ 38.Kg1 Qxa3 39.Rg3 Rxg3 40.hxg3 Ba4 41.Qb1 Qxc3
42.Nf3 Bb3 43.Kxg2 Bxc4 44.Bxc4 Qxc4 45.Kf2 d5 46.exd5 e4 47.Nd2 Qxd5
48.Ke2 Qxf5 49.Qxe4 Qb5+ 50.Kf3 Qa5 51.Nc4 Qa1 52.g4 Qf1+ 53.Kg3 Qg1+
54.Kh4 Qh2+ 55.Kg5 Kb8 56.Kg6 Ka7 57.g5 b5 58.Ne5 c5 59.Qd5 Qc2+ 60.Kf6 b4
61.g6 b3 62.g7 1-0


Both versions contain a big blunder by Capablanca, but to me version II
seems to be more likely (Sämisch would choose his own system with 4.a3),
and it is also the one I found from sources I trust more.

- Who played game Version I?
- Is Version I just a hoax?
- Why do some otherwise serious authors still refer to Version I?

Can someone go to the sources and tell me which one of the two versions is
correct?

--
Fredrik Acosta
Örnehufvudsgatan 3, 412 59 Göteborg, Sverige/Sweden
Phone: +46 31 161231, GSM: +46 707 461231, Fax: +46 707 110166



  #4  
Old July 7th 03, 06:37 PM
Anders Thulin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Sämisch - Capablanca, Karlsbad 1929



ChessliB wrote:
You can download the 230 games played in the 1929-Karlsbad tournament
from ChessliB:


But how does that help?

That file has a very late source date (2003.01.01), and as it does not
reference any earlier works, it must be judged on that date.

The dates of the sources used by the original poster is, at a
reasonable guess, earlier than so. So how do we rule out the possibility
that one of the sources we're trying to decide the trustworthyness of
was used to create the chesslib archive?

Simple -- we can't. And so we can't rely on chesslib for this particular
question, unless there's something else to base such a decision on.

Source criticism is a must for this type of question. And for
that source references are needed.

--
Anders Thulin http://www.algonet.se/~ath

 




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