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Interesting question (I think)



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 11th 03, 03:15 AM
Tom E.
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Default Interesting question (I think)

Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


  #2  
Old July 11th 03, 03:13 PM
Gordon
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Default Interesting question (I think)


"Tom E." wrote in message
...
Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


My guess would be "yes".

My reason for this is that although chess has an incredibly huge amount of
possible games, I think that the types of games being played fill a much
smaller subset (but still a huge amount in itself). For example, typical
games often involve typical openings. And after that, the set of legal
moves at each position is often narrowed down by commonly applied principles
(e.g put rooks on open files, etc.). Of course, we don't all think exactly
alike, but I guess there's a lot of commonality.

Combine this with the number of games of chess that have ever been played,
and I guess there's a fair chance of the exact same game being played twice.
Although, I don't think it will happen very often.

Finally, as someone else already mentioned, the question is rather vague and
open. Do we include correspondence games and games between computers!?

Gordon


  #3  
Old July 11th 03, 03:39 PM
Randy Bauer
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Default Interesting question (I think)

"Tom E." wrote in message ...
Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


There are some sharp lines in the Sicilian (the Velimirovic and
Najdorf come to mind) where one side (usually black) succumbs to a
sacrifical attack (in that line, it generally began with a knight
exploding on d5 or f5) in 20-25 moves. You'll occasionally find, when
doing research in the databases or books, that the same game has been
played in more than one instance.

There are other kinds of repeated games, but these are generally
contrived (or at least acquiesed) short or tactical draws. There are
many lines in the Dragon Sicilian, for example, that end in perpetual
check, and some of these stretch out to 20 moves or so.

Randy Bauer
  #4  
Old July 13th 03, 02:08 AM
FredH.
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Default Interesting question (I think)

"Tom E." wrote in message ...
Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


Well, this isn't quite what you asked for, but here is a game I had
the good fortune of playing (honest!), as White of course, in a
tournament game. It is oh so close to another "somewhat" famous game.

Fred.

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "1983"]
[Round ""]
[White "Fred"]
[Black ""]
[Result ""]
[Eco "C41"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4 4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 dxe5 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.Qb3
Qe7 8.Nc3 c6 9.Bg5 b5 10.Nxb5 cxb5 11.Bxb5+ Nbd7 12.O-O-O Rd8
13.Rxd7 Rxd7 14.Rd1 Qc5 15.Bxd7+ Nxd7 16.Qb8+ *
  #6  
Old July 13th 03, 03:06 PM
Dr Stupid
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Default Interesting question (I think)

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:15:35 -0600, "Tom E."
wrote:

Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


Yes, for example see game 163 in "200 Modern Chess Brilliancies"
(Batsford 1981) where Stefanov-Andreyev 1975 got replayed as
Jansen-Vangelov 1978.

I suppose one could do a duplicates search (ignoring names and years)
in CB/CA on one of the mega-databases to find more.


  #7  
Old July 13th 03, 03:15 PM
Roman M. Parparov
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Default Interesting question (I think)

Tom E. wrote:
Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


One that might qualify

Tarrasch-Zuckertort & Tarrasch-Gunsberg
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5
8.dxe5 Be6 9.c3 Be7 10.Re1 0-0 11.Nd4 Qd7 12.Nxe6 Qxe6 13.Rxe4 1-0

The first game was AFAIR in Frankfurt 1887, the second one in
Manchester, 1890.

The game Alekhine-Botwinnik has been replayed by me in an ICC
match.

--
Roman M. Parparov - NASA EOSDIS project node at TAU technical manager.
Email: http://www.nasa.proj.ac.il
Phone/Fax: +972-(0)3-6405205 (work), +972-(0)64-669-189 (home)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The economy depends about as much on economists as the weather does on
weather forecasters.
-- Jean-Paul Kauffmann
  #9  
Old July 14th 03, 01:59 AM
FredH.
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Default Interesting question (I think)

Paul Morphy vs The Duke of Brunswick & Count Isouard, Paris Opera House, 1958

If you do a Google search on Paul Morphy Opera you will get lots of hits.

Fred.


"Dan Yobry" wrote in message ...
What famous game would that be?

Yes, I'm clueless.

-Dan

--
email me at danyobry(at)attbi.com


"FredH." wrote in message
om...
"Tom E." wrote in message

...
Has the same game ever been played twice? (unintentionally)
I'm not talking
about scholars mates here, but something like 20-30 moves
past a 10 move main line opening of the French or something.
Tom


Well, this isn't quite what you asked for, but here is a game I had
the good fortune of playing (honest!), as White of course, in a
tournament game. It is oh so close to another "somewhat" famous game.

Fred.

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "1983"]
[Round ""]
[White "Fred"]
[Black ""]
[Result ""]
[Eco "C41"]
[Annotator ""]
[Source ""]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Bg4 4.dxe5 Bxf3 5.Qxf3 dxe5 6.Bc4 Nf6 7.Qb3
Qe7 8.Nc3 c6 9.Bg5 b5 10.Nxb5 cxb5 11.Bxb5+ Nbd7 12.O-O-O Rd8
13.Rxd7 Rxd7 14.Rd1 Qc5 15.Bxd7+ Nxd7 16.Qb8+ *

  #10  
Old July 14th 03, 02:14 AM
Fred
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Posts: n/a
Default That's 1858 (n/t)



 




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