"Tim Hanke" wrote in message news:DdHRa.85398$H17.26167@sccrnsc02...
"StanB" wrote ...

One well-known chess player once said, "Why must I lose to that idiot?"

And every chessplayer has *thought* it.

Without question. However, the difference between thinking it and
saying it is what makes for the different impression.

I once beat a regular poster to RGCP (who carries the NM title; name
withheld because it's not important to the story) in a tournament game
where he walked into a desperation trap in time pressure. At the time
we played the game, he was fighting to keep his rating over 2200.
With the old rating system, he got hit for the full 32 points. This
NM is known for sometimes being very wound up after a game, especially
a tough one. However, I'll never forget his response. He didn't try
to hide his disappointment, but never once did he say or do anything
disparaging. He shook my hand, congratulated me, and calmly talked
about the game afterwards.

Now THAT, no matter what, is class. I know that loss hurt him, and I
know he HAD to be thinking, "How could I lose to that clown?".
However, he never said or implied it. Any true competitor with pride
in his performance will think those thoughts. A gentleman (or lady)
wouldn't ever say it.

-bmr-

*******************************************
* Boyd M. Reed * *
*******************************************

Tim Hanke

On 13 Aug 2003 05:00:57 -0700, (David Ames)
wrote:

What the well-known GM said, in German, was: "Gegen diesen Idioten
muss ich verlieren!" Now I am no expert in German language, but it
seems to me that he meant: "I *would* have to lose to this idiot!" As
I see it, it was principally a *self*-deprecating remark.

If calling the opponent an idiot is mostly self-deprecation, then how
to construct a real insult?

Years ago, I witnessed a game where a local NM lost to a young
up-and-comer. As he resigned, he quivered in fury and hissed,
"Biyiasis, you played so *stupidly* I couldn't concentrate!"

Hi there,

What the well-known GM said, in German, was: "Gegen diesen Idioten
muss ich verlieren!" Now I am no expert in German language, but it
seems to me that he meant: "I *would* have to lose to this idiot!" As
I see it, it was principally a *self*-deprecating remark.

Well, it might be understood that a GM is very unhappy and angry about the
outcome of a match he lost to somebody usually playing on a level way below
him, but as a German I can assure you that I would have felt insulted if he
said these words to me afterwards, because it implies that he thinks I am an
idiot, not respecting my pensonality and me as a human being. If the game
would be still going on, I would have stood up, told the GM that I would
agree that the game is drawn and just would walk away to leave him alone
with his' bad behaviour.

Mike

Hi,

Assuming you have a won game, why reward his remark with a draw? Pick
up the point and *then* walk away.

If spectators watch the match it could hurt him more if I grant him a draw
having a superior position. Everyone would know that I only did this because
the GM could not bear defeat, and he would know too.

Mike.

Mike Murray wrote in message . ..
On 13 Aug 2003 05:00:57 -0700, (David Ames)
wrote:

What the well-known GM said, in German, was: "Gegen diesen Idioten
muss ich verlieren!" Now I am no expert in German language, but it
seems to me that he meant: "I *would* have to lose to this idiot!" As
I see it, it was principally a *self*-deprecating remark.

If calling the opponent an idiot is mostly self-deprecation, then how
to construct a real insult?


You are reading "to this idiot" as the self-deprecating portion of the
remark and that is of course not correct. "I *would* have to lose"
assigns the blame to the person speaking.

David Ames

Years ago, I witnessed a game where a local NM lost to a young
up-and-comer. As he resigned, he quivered in fury and hissed,
"Biyiasis, you played so *stupidly* I couldn't concentrate!"

On 14 Aug 2003 05:07:04 -0700, (David Ames)
wrote:

What the well-known GM said, in German, was: "Gegen diesen Idioten
muss ich verlieren!" Now I am no expert in German language, but it
seems to me that he meant: "I *would* have to lose to this idiot!" As
I see it, it was principally a *self*-deprecating remark.

If calling the opponent an idiot is mostly self-deprecation, then how
to construct a real insult?

You are reading "to this idiot" as the self-deprecating portion of the
remark and that is of course not correct. "I *would* have to lose"
assigns the blame to the person speaking.

No, I don't read it that way.

Of course he's assigning some blame to himself...for losing to an
*idiot*. He's not calling *himself* an idiot. He's calling his
opponent one.

Wouldn't you consider the GM's self-deprecation scant consolation to
the guy being called an idiot? Analogy: the football quarterback
loses girl to the captain of the chess team. He remarks loudly to his
peers in the lunchroom, "Why must I be aced out by this ugly,
pimple-faced nerd?" No offense meant? He's just being
self-deprecatory? I don't think so.

To belabor the point even further, as to why the remark is more
insulting than self-deprecatory. He evidently considers his loss to
the "idiot" to be an aberration, but his opponent will still be an
idiot tomorrow.

Mike Murray wrote in message . ..
On 14 Aug 2003 05:07:04 -0700, (David Ames) wrote:
What the well-known GM said, in German, was: "Gegen diesen Idioten
muss ich verlieren!" Now I am no expert in German language, but it
seems to me that he meant: "I *would* have to lose to this idiot!" As
I see it, it was principally a *self*-deprecating remark.

If calling the opponent an idiot is mostly self-deprecation, then how
to construct a real insult?

You are reading "to this idiot" as the self-deprecating portion of the
remark and that is of course not correct. "I *would* have to lose"
assigns the blame to the person speaking.

No, I don't read it that way.

'Reading is like setting a mirror before us.'
--Sarah Fielding (The History of the Countess of Dellwyn)

Dear Mr. Murray,

I concur with your reading.

Of course he's assigning some blame to himself...for losing to an *idiot*.
He's not calling *himself* an idiot. He's calling his opponent one.

Wouldn't you consider the GM's self-deprecation scant consolation to the
guy being called an idiot? Analogy: the football quarterback loses girl
to the captain of the chess team. He remarks loudly to his peers in the
lunchroom, "Why must I be aced out by this ugly, pimple-faced nerd?"
No offense meant? He's just being self-deprecatory? I don't think so.

I doubt that GM Simen Agdestein, who played for Norway's national football
(soccer) team, has ever heard that about himself. :-)

http://www.xs4all.nl/~timkr/chess2/agd_eng.htm

To belabor the point even further, as to why the remark is more insulting
than self-deprecatory. He evidently considers his loss to the "idiot" to
be an aberration, but his opponent will still be an idiot tomorrow.

And perhaps not even a 'useful idiot'. :-)

--Nick