"CeeBee" wrote in message
. 6.84...

I don't know at what age Kasparov became a member of the communist party.
I
really like to hear.

But it wasn't the issue . You said I was wrong about Kasparov not
belonging
to the Nomenklatura "because he was a member of the communist party". But
as you already indicated, those are two different things. Of course the
Nomenklatura consisted of only communist party members, but not the other
way round.

Communist party membership wasn't decisive in cases of favouritism. In the
USSR it was a requirement to do anything more than just sit at home. So no
surprise that a lot of people tried to become party member as soon as
possible.

What I suggested was that Karpov was a favourite of the ruling elite when
Kasparov came to the rise, and Kasparov had to fight against that
favouritism; small wonder why he didn't like Karpov.


C.B., they were both from Nomenklatura or in other words they had mighty
patronage and protectors.
Anyway chess was the ideological weapon of CCCP so both players didn`t have
a real choice.

However there was probably one incident who could raise Kasparov`s 'hatred'
towards Karpov`s team.
I mean the spy in Kasparov`s team.

Regards,

Jerzy

"Jerzy" wrote



C.B., they were both from Nomenklatura or in other words they had
mighty patronage and protectors.


I'm sorry, but I still disagree. You didn't "come" from the Nomenklatura,
you became a part of it after you established yourself.

When Kasparov rose, Karpov belonged to that Nomenklatura - and was a
favourite of that group since he was in his early twenties - but Kasparov
didn't.
As soon as _his_ successes struck definitely, he belonged to that Sowjet
elite as well.

--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


Google CeeBee @ www.geocities.com/ceebee_2

"CeeBee" wrote in message
. 6.67...
C.B., they were both from Nomenklatura or in other words they had
mighty patronage and protectors.


I'm sorry, but I still disagree. You didn't "come" from the Nomenklatura,
you became a part of it after you established yourself.

When Kasparov rose, Karpov belonged to that Nomenklatura - and was a
favourite of that group since he was in his early twenties - but Kasparov
didn't.
As soon as _his_ successes struck definitely, he belonged to that Sowjet
elite as well.


No, they were both the favorites of the Nomeklatura, i.e. communists who
ruled in CCCP.
E.g. only the intervention of Azerbaijani Nomenklatura stopped the spying of
Kasparov.
So he had mighty patronage too.
We can argue whose patronage was mightier but I don`t see much sense in
doing so.


Regards,

Jerzy

On 29 Jul 2003 02:49:01 GMT, LeModernCaveman wrote:

They were adversaries. I don't think they hated each other as much as they
were consumed with beating each other.

Each expected the other to give their all, and they did.

The Karpov-Kasparov matches were among the best of all time, especially those
Gruenfelds!

Those were great, but it was always karpov with white. kasparov only won
one of those games (i think), after a blunder by karpov in the endgame.
it seemed to me like almost every time kasparov was just barely hanging
on most of the time, and losing the rest of the time.

There were some sweet sicillians in the first two matches, especially
in the 2nd. game 16 from that match is still my favorite kasparov
game of all time. game 24, the one the made kasparov world champion,
was also gorgeous. and they had a lot of spanish duels, beautiful games.

"Jerzy" wrote


No, they were both the favorites of the Nomeklatura, i.e. communists
who ruled in CCCP.
E.g. only the intervention of Azerbaijani Nomenklatura stopped the
spying of Kasparov.
So he had mighty patronage too.
We can argue whose patronage was mightier but I don`t see much sense
in doing so.


Not "mightier", but "earlier". You're discussing the wrong matter.

--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


Google CeeBee @ www.geocities.com/ceebee_2

"CeeBee" wrote in message
. 6.67...


Not "mightier", but "earlier". You're discussing the wrong matter.


CB, again you are wrong.
They played the match for the world title, so they were both at the top.
At the same time not earlier or later.


Regards,

Jerzy

..
Go to chesslab.com and do a search for all the games from the first
Karpov/Kasparov match. The first "page" of results should have Karpov as White
in every game.

Play over these wins and take note of the way that Anatoly treated Garry
"like a child" in the endgame, after having dominated the middlegame (and more
than once, snatching a pawn and getting away with it)!
Sometimes these endings were fairly simple looking theoretical draws, yet
Karpov's subtlety, just like Capablanca's, overwhelmed the hapless opponent and
led, again and again, to him "winning by a nose." In one of these endgames, I
was quite shocked that one could even *consider* trying to win, yet Karpov made
it look like childsplay.



In later matches, Garry endgame play improved markedly, and he eventually
reached the point where he no longer needed to fear Karpov in *any* phase of
the game. Yet such "free lessons" as these, had to be painful as well as
embarassing, for a man rated over 2700, and used to losing only when he
blundered badly.

I would agree but Kasparov admitted before his first match with Karpov
that Karpov was far better than him in the endgame. When Karpov
played Korchnoi in their first match and for the world title in 1978
Karpov admitted that Korchnoi was a better player in the endgame.

"Jerzy" wrote in message ...
No, they were both the favorites of the Nomeklatura, i.e. communists who
ruled in CCCP. E.g. only the intervention of Azerbaijani Nomenklatura
stopped the spying of Kasparov. So he had mighty patronage too.
We can argue whose patronage was mightier but I don`t see much sense in
doing so.

Dear Jerzy,

As far as I know, I would agree with you.
I wrote about Kasparov's political patronage by the Nomenklatura in the
thread, 'A new enemy of Lev Khariton' (6 April 2003).

--Nick

"What is the source of Kasparov's hatred of Karpov the man?" (ph015c7836)
=============
Maybe Karpov recommended his former German investment advisor to Kasparov.
(RSHaas)