"Jerzy" wrote



Right, Nick. Thus claiming that Karpov had the political patronage and
Kasparov didn`t is at least comic.


Which - for the record - I didn't say.


--
CeeBee


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"Jerzy" wrote


LOL!

FYI, you wrote :

"Karpov was part of the former USSR "Nomenklatura"; Kasparov wasn't.
If one's the favourite of the ruling elite, and the other isn't, and
that in a country where those things mattered on a day to day basis,
it's clear there could grow some antagonism."


Regards,

Jerzy



I also wrote:


Not "mightier", but "earlier". You're discussing the wrong matter.



--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


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"CeeBee" wrote in message
. 6.83...

FYI, you wrote :

"Karpov was part of the former USSR "Nomenklatura"; Kasparov wasn't.
If one's the favourite of the ruling elite, and the other isn't, and
that in a country where those things mattered on a day to day basis,
it's clear there could grow some antagonism."



I also wrote:


Not "mightier", but "earlier". You're discussing the wrong matter.



No CB, you simply can`t admit to your own mistakes. You are a typical
"besserwisser" who is afraid to lose his 'authority' by admitting to his own
mistakes.


Regards,

Jerzy

"Jerzy" wrote


No CB, you simply can`t admit to your own mistakes. You are a typical
"besserwisser" who is afraid to lose his 'authority' by admitting to
his own mistakes.


Who is "defining a mistake"? Is it Jerzy telling that his opinion is the
truth and other's is not?

The simple fact that you don't respond to what is being said, but respond
to what is not being said at all, gives an awful clue.

--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


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"Jerzy" wrote


Oh, CB I know you`d love to see another flame war here but not this
time
))


First of all you respond to my message about the Nomenklatura with a barely
relevant reference to communist party membership;

Secondly you dismissed my suggestion "that Karpov was an _earlier_
favourite of the ruling elite when Kasparov came to the rise, and had to
fight against that" with the remark that this was wrong while they were
_both_ part of it, without responding to the time they got their patronage;

Thirdly you state that a supposedly opposing opinion I didn't vent, but was
made up by you, is "at least comic";

Fourth you state that someone with a different opinion is a "Besserwisser"
and fears the loss of some "authority" of which you are the only one
claiming he attributes to himself;

And fifth you talk about another person starting a flame you yourself
initiated by ridiculing a different opinion.



From what I've read in this thread so far I suspect that half of your ego
could be much more of a problem than the supposed ego you contribute to me.


If you have such strong feelings about "winning or losing" an argument, and
finding being "right and wrong" a far more important issue than discussing,
why take the chance on posting to Usenet, which has such a notoriously well
known disrespect for every self-appointent authority?

--
CeeBee


Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"


Google CeeBee @ www.geocities.com/ceebee_2

"CeeBee" wrote in message
. 6.83...

Oh, CB I know you`d love to see another flame war here but not this
time
))


First of all you respond to my message about the Nomenklatura with a
barely
relevant reference to communist party membership;

Maybe Kasparov wasn`t the member of komsomol and the communist party ?


Secondly you dismissed my suggestion "that Karpov was an _earlier_
favourite of the ruling elite when Kasparov came to the rise, and had to
fight against that" with the remark that this was wrong while they were
_both_ part of it, without responding to the time they got their
patronage;

No CB, you wrote that Kasparov wasn`t the favorite of the Nomenklatura like
Karpov.
Now you deny your own words. We can go on arguing who had mightier backup
but still I can`t see much sense in doing so.

[snip]

From what I've read in this thread so far I suspect that half of your ego
could be much more of a problem than the supposed ego you contribute to
me.


If you have such strong feelings about "winning or losing" an argument,
and
finding being "right and wrong" a far more important issue than
discussing,
why take the chance on posting to Usenet, which has such a notoriously
well
known disrespect for every self-appointent authority?

CB, I see you try to escape from your own words, it`s not about 'isness' or
'senssI" or who has bigger ...ego as you nicely write but it`s all about
the fact that Kasparov had the backup of Nomenklatura.


Regards,

Jerzy

The Horny Goat wrote in message . ..
On 28 Jul 2003 15:53:54 GMT, CeeBee wrote:
Karpov was part of the former USSR "Nomenklatura"; Kasparov wasn't. If
one's the favourite of the ruling elite, and the other isn't, and that in a
country where those things mattered on a day to day basis, it's clear there
could grow some antagonism.

Hmmm. I seem to remember the name Haidar (sometimes translated Gaidar)
Aliev - once Soviet Politburo member until he was removed in 1987 -
being described as a great booster of Kasparov's career once upon a time.

Heydar Aliyevich Aliyev, now the president of Azerbaijan (and once a powerful
leader in the KGB under Yuri Andropov), was an influential patron of Kasparov.

Kasparov may have been a fan of Boris Yeltsin before it was popular to
be one but he definitely was a member of the Soviet elite
(nomenklatura if you will) in the pre-1991 USSR.

As I recall, Kasparov supported Mikhail Gorbachev when Gorbachev was in power,
and then Kasparov supported Boris Yeltsin when Yeltsin came to power.

He never was considered remotely anti-Soviet in anything like the sense
Korchnoi was.

As far as I know, the Soviet media consistently portrayed Kasparov, unlike
Korchnoi, in a favourable light.

'We cannot have heroes to dine with us. There are none. And were these
heroes to be had, we should not like them.'
--Anthony Trollope (The Eustace Diamonds)

--Nick

"Nick" wrote in message
m...



Heydar Aliyevich Aliyev, now the president of Azerbaijan (and once a
powerful
leader in the KGB under Yuri Andropov), was an influential patron of
Kasparov.

As I`ve heard on the radio he is now seriously ill (medical treatment in
Turkey) and his successor is his son (elected not in a very democratic
manner by Azerbaijani Parliament)


As far as I know, the Soviet media consistently portrayed Kasparov, unlike
Korchnoi, in a favourable light.


You are absolutely right.


Regards,

Jerzy