"Mhoulsby" -remove- wrote in message
...



This last comment is typically astute. Of course "Lvov" used to be "Lwow"
when
it was part of the Kingdom of Poland (a land whose eastern border has, in
the
past, *crossed*, and been crossed by, its western border...)


Right Mark, Lwow (Lions` city) was part of the Polish Kingdom for centuries
and Polish city until WWII.

Regards,
Jerzy

-remove- (Mhoulsby) wrote in message ...
This last comment is typically astute. Of course "Lvov" used to be "Lwow" when
it was part of the Kingdom of Poland (a land whose eastern border has, in the
past, *crossed*, and been crossed by, its western border...)

Historical Poland has sounded like an instrument being played frequently by
"the wind of change".

"The wind of change is blowing through this continent."
--Harold Macmillan (3 February 1960, speech in Cape Town, South Africa)

Yet Poland has not been the only country with quite elastic boundaries.
And the Poles have not been the only people to make noises whenever they have
been squeezed too hard from the outside.

"We are the sport of destiny."
--William Makepeace Thackeray (Barry Lyndon)

--Nick

From: (Nick)
Date: 27/08/03 19:09 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

-remove- (Mhoulsby) wrote in message
...
"Two countries will go to war and one of them will win."

Not necessarily--sometimes the final (or the provisional) outcome is a draw
(even one claimed by lasting stalemate); sometimes both sides seem to lose.
Is war supposed to be a "zero-sum game"?

Allen Konigsberg... er... Kaliningrad...
(aka Woody Allen)

That *Kant* be so! :-)
Immanuel Kant (1724-1804) lived his entire life in Koenigsberg.

Here are links to Leonard Euler's solution of the famous problem in
graph theory of "the Seven Bridges of Koenigsberg":

http://mathforum.org/isaac/problems/bridges1.html
http://mathforum.org/isaac/problems/bridges2.html

That reminds me of an anecdote about a conversation between an Englishwoman
visiting the Soviet Union and her Intourist guide:

He : Madame, is this visit your first time in our beautiful country?
She: No, I happened to have been born in St. Petersburg.
He : Ah, my dear lady, you should not be misled by the capitalist propaganda.
You mean that you were born in Leningrad.
She: No, young man, now I wish that I had been born here in Leningrad.
But, actually, I was born in St. Petersburg.


You may know this story:

The Soviet Government was conducting a census.

One man completed his form thus:

Where were you born?

St. Petersburg

Where did you attain your majority?

Petrograd

Where do you live now?

Leningrad

Where would you like to live, if you had the choice?

St. Petersburg

"Roman M. Parparov" wrote in message
...

In which way did Ukraine fight for freedom it itself gave up and never
REALLY complained since 350 years ago?

See e.g. Khmelnitsky`s uprisings.
After all almost 50 years after WWII fortunately Ukraine has become an
independent country.


There was a major anti-communist hunt in Western Ukraine all the years
but it is not a reason good enough to assist the SS and likewise.

Supporting Stalin wasn`t possible for Ukrainians you probably recognize why.
Of course supporting nazis was a mistake too.



Bogoljubov was married to a German and lived in Germany since 1926. His
collaboration unlike Bogatyrchuk - the latter one name was almost wiped
from Soviet chess literature - is doubtful, moreover, he was already
inactive during WWII.

Of course he lived there and worked in nazi machine. Maybe he hadn`t
recognized the devil.
Nonetheless both players are mentioned in Youri Semenko book "Chess in
Ukraine" as the great predecessors of present chess players from Ukraine.


Regards,
Jerzy

"Jerzy" wrote in message ...
"Nick" wrote in message
m...
Historical Poland has sounded like an instrument being played frequently
by "the wind of change".

"The wind of change is blowing through this continent."
--Harold Macmillan (3 February 1960, speech in Cape Town, South Africa)

Yet Poland has not been the only country with quite elastic boundaries.
And the Poles have not been the only people to make noises whenever they
have been squeezed too hard from the outside.

Elastic boundaries?
Yeah, the British Empire has really elastic boundaries.
Once the place where the sun never set on and nowadays only reminiscence of
it. :-)

Now that the sun has set on the British Empire, one no longer has to keep cool
by staying in the shade. :-)

After 1945, many Polish veterans of the Second World War decided to remain
in the United Kingdom instead of returning to live in their homeland.

"For your freedom and ours:
We commit our bodies
To the soil of Italy,
Our souls to God,
And our hearts to Poland."

--(from a memorial to the fallen Polish soldiers)

--Nick

Jerzy wrote:
"Roman M. Parparov" wrote in message
...

In which way did Ukraine fight for freedom it itself gave up and never
REALLY complained since 350 years ago?

See e.g. Khmelnitsky`s uprisings.
After all almost 50 years after WWII fortunately Ukraine has become an
independent country.

It was Khmelnitsky who signed the Union Agreement in 1654 in
Perejaslavl'.. He did fight for independence - from Poland.
The main difference between Russian and Polish seniority is Orthodox vs.
Catholic.

Regards,
Jerzy



--
Roman M. Parparov - NASA EOSDIS project node at TAU technical manager.
Email: http://www.nasa.proj.ac.il
Phone/Fax: +972-(0)3-6405205 (work), +972-(0)51-34-18-34 (home)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The economy depends about as much on economists as the weather does on
weather forecasters.
-- Jean-Paul Kauffmann

"Roman M. Parparov" wrote in message
...

In which way did Ukraine fight for freedom it itself gave up and never
REALLY complained since 350 years ago?

See e.g. Khmelnitsky`s uprisings.
After all almost 50 years after WWII fortunately Ukraine has become an
independent country.

It was Khmelnitsky who signed the Union Agreement in 1654 in
Perejaslavl'.. He did fight for independence - from Poland.
The main difference between Russian and Polish seniority is Orthodox vs.
Catholic.


No, I think the main difference between Ukraine and Poland are the alphabets
: Cyrillic vs. Latin. The same is of course between Russia and Poland. But
today Poland and Ukraine are rather friendly nations and I think Ukraine can
learn sth from Polish experience as a free and independent country.
BTW Have you seen the famous painting "Cossacks writing a mocking letter to
Tsar" by Ilya Repin? :-)

I agree that the religious difference is more seen between churches of
Russia and Poland. I am often amazed how hostile can be people of different
religions (although they claim they worship the same Lord). Fortunately I
belong to no church ;-)


Regards,
Jerzy

From: "Jerzy"
Date: 28/08/03 07:33 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

"Nick" wrote in message
. com...

After 1945, many Polish veterans of the Second World War decided to remain
in the United Kingdom instead of returning to live in their homeland.

"For your freedom and ours:
We commit our bodies
To the soil of Italy,
Our souls to God,
And our hearts to Poland."

--(from a memorial to the fallen Polish soldiers)

--Nick

Right Nick, I`ve just heard on the radio that today we are commemorating
Polish pilots that fought in the Battle of England in 1940 on your side.
There were several squadrons of them. Over two thousand sacrificed their
lives in the air fight. The most famous was of course squadron 303. Do you
remember them today in England ?


Regards,
Jerzy


We most certainly do. The first time I visited the Polish club in my home city
of Newcastle-upon-Tyne was to play a chess match, some thirty years ago.

The Polish Squadron of the RAF was described in Guy Hamilton's 1969 movie "The
Battle Of Britain".

There is no doubt that without its Polish pilots (and Canadians and Hungarians
and Indians... although Poles comprised the greatest number of foreign
nationals) the RAF would, at the very least, have struggled to win the Battle
Of Britain and would most probably have lost.

Mark

Jerzy wrote:

No, I think the main difference between Ukraine and Poland are the alphabets
: Cyrillic vs. Latin. The same is of course between Russia and Poland. But
today Poland and Ukraine are rather friendly nations and I think Ukraine can
learn sth from Polish experience as a free and independent country.
BTW Have you seen the famous painting "Cossacks writing a mocking letter to
Tsar" by Ilya Repin? :-)

No, the religious difference was important. AFAIK many Polish nobles had
estates in Western Ukraine and the Ukrainians were treated there quite
badly, and their Orthodox beliefs were not to say hunted, but unwelcome
at least.

And the mocking letter was written not to the Tzar, but to the Turkish
Sultan who tried to influence the Zaporizhzha Cossacks from the Crimea.

Regards,
Jerzy



--
Roman M. Parparov - NASA EOSDIS project node at TAU technical manager.
Email: http://www.nasa.proj.ac.il
Phone/Fax: +972-(0)3-6405205 (work), +972-(0)51-34-18-34 (home)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The economy depends about as much on economists as the weather does on
weather forecasters.
-- Jean-Paul Kauffmann

"Roman M. Parparov" wrote in message
...

No, the religious difference was important. AFAIK many Polish nobles had
estates in Western Ukraine and the Ukrainians were treated there quite
badly, and their Orthodox beliefs were not to say hunted, but unwelcome
at least.

You wrote :"The main difference between Russian and Polish seniority is
Orthodox vs.Catholic" but obviously you mixed up two different things.
You treat Ukraine like Russia but Ukrainians don`t treat Russia as Ukraine
:-)
Recently President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma has written a book called "
Ukraine is not Russia". I`m sure the book is worth reading. :-)



And the mocking letter was written not to the Tzar, but to the Turkish
Sultan who tried to influence the Zaporizhzha Cossacks from the Crimea.


That`s right, Crimea is another unsolved question between Russia and Ukraine
:-)
Russians treat it like a separate region from Ukraine but nowadays it`s
Ukrainian anyway.

The main problem in relationship between Russians and Ukrainians are
sentiments but in politics there are no sentiments only pragmatism.


Regards,
Jerzy