A Chess forum. ChessBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ChessBanter forum » Chess Newsgroups » rec.games.chess.misc (Chess General)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Tags: , ,

Searching for Bobby Fischer



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 15th 03, 08:14 PM
StanB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Searching for Bobby Fischer


"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...

Benko says that he did not compose this endgame and never would, as it
has several flaws.

I apologize to Benko. I should have realized immediately that this was
not a Benko problem.


Are you telling us that you made yet another mistake?

StanB


Ads
  #12  
Old September 16th 03, 12:12 AM
Sam Sloan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Searching for Bobby Fischer

At 05:53 PM 9/15/2003 -0400, Lonnie Kwartler wrote:
Hi Sam,
I don't believe Livermore was strong enough to play Shirazi speed chess.
He would only play to win money and on occasion dare to play a stronger
player at apparently good odds. I saw him lose every game to Seirawan at 6
minutes to one. I also easily beat him at about 6-3 with numerous
side-bettors on his side. In the book Vinnie broke even with Lobron and
appeared to beat the "GM" in the park in the movie. That part of the
character was not Livermore. I have read that Morrison claims to be part of
the character. I would prefer to not speak about Livermore's personal
traits, which were left out of the story, now.
However, I believe the killer of Oscar Freeman should be named, even if
only privately.
Lonnie Kwartler


Since you have been around for a while, I would have thought that you
knew the story. If you do not, I will tell you but only privately.

I think I can tell the basic facts without naming names publicly.

The person in question had already been told that he was not welcome
at the Manhattan Chess Club, which at the time was located in the
Henry Hudson Hotel.

In December, 1972, when this person walked in the door to the
Manhattan Chess Club, Oscar Freeman immediately got into the telephone
booth, presumably to call the police.

This person realized what Freeman was probably doing and pulled him
out of the telephone booth. There was a scuffle on the floor.

Oscar Freeman was 67 years old. He died of a heart attack two or three
days later.

This person was never charged with a crime, but those familiar with
the incident had little doubt that the scuffle on the floor was what
brought on the heart attack.

Significantly, Oscar Freeman was widely disliked for exactly the same
reason Larry Tamarkin is disliked, telling people to leave the club.
Few came to the funeral of Oscar Freeman and I never heard expressions
of regret that he had died. The one person who really liked Oscar
Freeman was Burt Hochberg and Hochberg wrote the obituary which was
published in Chess Life magazine.

After Freeman died, Bethy Cassidy became director of the Manhattan
Chess Club. She was followed by Hans Kmoch, Jeffrey Kastner, Frances
Goldfarb and several others, I cannot remember them all. They all had
the same duties. Somehow, Jeffrey Kastner and the others had a polite
way to tell people that they had to leave the club without getting
anybody offended, angry or upset. Somehow Oscar Freeman and Larry
Tamarkin have not cultivated that talent.

Sam Sloan
  #13  
Old September 16th 03, 12:15 PM
sgw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Searching for Bobby Fischer

Thanks, Sam! I'm one of those people who's only played about 5 games of
chess in my life but still rank this movie
as one of my all-time faves anyway - the acting and the insight into the
making of a prodigy are just terrific. And
the kid is amazing, a wonderful actor who's perfect for the role and so
natural in it.
One thing I wanted to point out, for anyone who hasn't seen it on video: I
don't know if this is on the DVD of the
movie as well, but the video actually ends with a short ad featuring the
real Josh, Bruce, and Fred Waitzkin promoting
the national association for youth chess. It's a really nice coda to the
movie, seeing the real people from it.

Sally

"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
Searching for Bobby Fischer

I just replayed the movie "Searching for Booby Fischer" on video. Of
course, I had seen the movie before, but this time I saw a few things
I had not seen previously.

I think that we as chess players can learn a lot from this movie. It
is a masterpiece in the way that it takes a subject most people would
find to be deadly boring and turns it into an exciting drama. Best of
all, the main events actually happened in real life and all of the
characters are or were real people, although some modifications were
necessary to make it into a good movie which the general public would
enjoy.

The plot line: Talented seven-year-old boy defeats his main rival to
win National Scholastic Chess Championship. Already, there is a little
fib. In real life, Joshua Waitzkin was about 13 when he won the
National Scholastic Championship. That was no big deal, so they had to
cut his age to seven to make the story more interesting.

In your typical Bruce Lee Movie, in the grand finale, Bruce Lee fights
the grand wizard to the death. Here instead, two seven year old kids
battle for the title. In the movie, the opponent is Jonathan Poe.
However, in real life, the final battle was fought by Joshua Waitzkin
against Jeff Sarwer.

To those familiar with the background, there is a reason for this name
change. Shortly after the real life tournament, the real life Jeff
Sarwer was taken away from the custody of his father by the child
welfare authorities. I do not know the details of what happened, but
it is clear that no court appointed guardian would ever agree to the
portrayal of Sarwer and his father the way that they are portrayed in
this movie.

So, the movie commits another fib. It says that the man who is
bringing the Sarwer character around to chess tournaments is not his
father at all. This man says that the parents have given the child to
his guardianship at age 4, that all he does is play chess and that he
never goes to school. The real life Sawyer, whom I once played in a
tournament (I beat him) never went to school either, but as far as I
know the man bringing him to chess tournaments was his real father.

Still, the guardian/father of Sarwer delivers one of the most
significant lines in the movie: "Eventually you realize that you have
taught them all that you can, and you just have to let them be what
they are."

Every line and every word of this movie is significant. It is a
masterpiece of writing and editing. This makes it easy for the viewer
to miss important points. It would sometimes be difficult to follow,
as the movie constantly shifts back and forth between real events and
fantasy. For example, there is actual footage of news broadcasts of
the real Bobby Fischer and as well as vintage photographs of Edward
Lasker, John W. Collins and other famous chess players.

There is the eternal conflict between the boy and his father. There
are also conflicts between the public school teacher and the parents,
the parents with each other, the parents and the coach, and the coach,
an actor, Ben Kingsley playing Bruce Pandolfini, and the chess hustler
in the park, Laurence Fishburne playing Vinnie a/k/a Vincent
Livermore.

In real life, Vincent Livermore died of AIDS just before the movie
came out. I asked Joshua Waitzkin about this (I asked the real life
Joshua Waitzkin, not an actor playing him in the movies) and he told
me that the character "Vinnie" is a composite based in part on Vincent
Livermore and in part on another chess player.

This movie has had a profound effect on the lives of several chess
players. The real life Bruce Pandolfini has become a wealthy man
giving chess lessons for $250 an hour to parents who are convinced
that their brilliant tyke needs lessons from the real Bruce
Pandolfini.

On the other hand, FIDE Master Asa Hoffmann is portrayed in the movie
as a raving schizophrenic who talks to himself. In real life, Asa
Hoffman does not do that and is a much stronger chess player than
Bruce Pandolfini, but Asa has a hard time getting paying chess
students, so he reduces himself to hustling strangers every day for
five dollars a game in Liberty Park near the former World Trade
Center.

It must be mentioned here that the producers of this movie paid the
real Asa Hoffmann a very large sum of money for the rights to have an
actor portray him, so Hoffman is not complaining. In the movie, the
Bruce Pandolfini character says that Asa Hoffmann is the child of two
Park Avenue lawyers and attended Columbia University. I learned
something here. I knew that the father of Asa Hoffmann was a prominent
lawyer. I did not previously know that his mother was an even more
famous lawyer who argued before the United States Supreme Court.

There is a chess player who in real life acts the same way that the
Asa Hoffmann character in the movies acts. That is Larry Gilden, but I
have not seen him in years and I doubt that Joshua Waitzkin has seen
him at all.

In one of the early scenes, Bruce Pandofini takes Fred Waitzkin,
Joshua's father, to see a real chess tournament. The room is filled
with smoke and it is not possible to see from one end of the room to
the other. Playing in this smoke filled room are Joel Benjamin and
Roman Dzindzichashvili, playing themselves in the movie. The point is
that these are the best chess players in the country and yet they are
playing in squalid conditions.

However, I have never seen such bad conditions in a chess tournament.
Smoking has been banned in chess tournaments for years.

There are so many other little details like that that I cannot
possibly list them all, but the big conflict in the movie concerns
chess strategy. Beginners at chess usually want to move out their
queen right away, but experienced players try to keep their queen
safely behind their minor pieces. Bruce Pandolfini, the chess teacher,
teacher Joshua to play positionally and to keep his queen back.
Vincent Livermore, who plays Joshua two minute chess in Washington
Square Park, teaches him to bring out the queen early.

In one of his first tournaments, Joshua plays an early Qf3, in an
obvious beginner's attempt at a Scholars Mate in which White plays the
moves 1 e4 2 Bc4 3. Qf3 4. Qxf7 mate. An adult watching the game
smirks at this move. You have to be a chess player to understand the
reason for the smirk.

The climatic showdown comes when Joshua is on stage battling for the
championship. His rival Jonathan Poe arrives. It will be a fight to
the finish.

I have worked out the moves. I do not believe that anybody else has
done this, so please pay attention. The game starts with a Queens
Gambit Accepted as follows: 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 c6
5. a4 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7. Bg5.

This game is being watched on TV by the parents and coaches in another
room. Laurence Fishburne says, "Bring her out". Bruce Pandolfini says
"Don't even think about bringing her out." They both repeat themselves
several times and exchange dirty glances.

What they are talking about is Joshua's next move could be either Qa5,
developing the queen perhaps prematurely, or Be7 or Nd7 which are both
normal developing moves.

This is a key point in the drama. Finally, Josh plays Qa5, disobeying
his teacher.

I tried to figure out which moves came next but it is apparent that
the next bunch of moves are just random moves or more likely were
edited in out of sequence. Eventually, they reach the following
problem-like position: White has a king on e6, rook on e5, knight on
e4, bishop on g5 and pawns on f6 and h4. Black has rook on c8, bishop
on d8, knight on b6, king on c2 and pawns on a7 and g7.

This looks like a problem created by Grandmaster Pal Benko, but
Taghian Taghian told me that Bruce Pandolfini and another chess player
worked it out. Pal Benko was a consultant to this movie, however. The
last move by White was Kd5. It is now Black to play and win. It is a
cute solution. I do not know how difficult it is, because I know the
solution already, since I had to work backwards from the final
position to get to this position. It is almost ridiculous to suggest
that any seven year old child could find over the board the solution
to this problem which was perhaps composed by Grandmaster Pal Benko.

OK Ready? The solution is: 1. ... gxf6 2. Bxf6 Rc6+ 3. Kf5 Rxf6 4.
Nxf6 Bxf6 5. Kxf6 Nd7+ 6. Kf5 Nxe5+ 7. Kxe5 a5 8. h5 a4 9. h6 a3 10.
h7 a2 11. h8=Q a1=Q+ 12. Kf5 Qxh8 White resigns 0-1

By the way, it took me about an hour of playing back and replaying
this video before I got all the pieces in their correct positions and
all the moves right too.

The point is that White has queened his pawn first but Black queens
with check on the long diagonal and wins White's queen. A cute and
unusual solution to an endgame study.

By the way, in real life the game ended in a draw.

Sam Sloan




  #14  
Old September 17th 03, 02:36 AM
David Vancina
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Searching for Bobby Fischer

Interesting post, Sam. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

DJV

"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
Searching for Bobby Fischer

I just replayed the movie "Searching for Booby Fischer" on video. Of
course, I had seen the movie before, but this time I saw a few things
I had not seen previously.

I think that we as chess players can learn a lot from this movie. It
is a masterpiece in the way that it takes a subject most people would
find to be deadly boring and turns it into an exciting drama. Best of
all, the main events actually happened in real life and all of the
characters are or were real people, although some modifications were
necessary to make it into a good movie which the general public would
enjoy.

The plot line: Talented seven-year-old boy defeats his main rival to
win National Scholastic Chess Championship. Already, there is a little
fib. In real life, Joshua Waitzkin was about 13 when he won the
National Scholastic Championship. That was no big deal, so they had to
cut his age to seven to make the story more interesting.

In your typical Bruce Lee Movie, in the grand finale, Bruce Lee fights
the grand wizard to the death. Here instead, two seven year old kids
battle for the title. In the movie, the opponent is Jonathan Poe.
However, in real life, the final battle was fought by Joshua Waitzkin
against Jeff Sarwer.

To those familiar with the background, there is a reason for this name
change. Shortly after the real life tournament, the real life Jeff
Sarwer was taken away from the custody of his father by the child
welfare authorities. I do not know the details of what happened, but
it is clear that no court appointed guardian would ever agree to the
portrayal of Sarwer and his father the way that they are portrayed in
this movie.

So, the movie commits another fib. It says that the man who is
bringing the Sarwer character around to chess tournaments is not his
father at all. This man says that the parents have given the child to
his guardianship at age 4, that all he does is play chess and that he
never goes to school. The real life Sawyer, whom I once played in a
tournament (I beat him) never went to school either, but as far as I
know the man bringing him to chess tournaments was his real father.

Still, the guardian/father of Sarwer delivers one of the most
significant lines in the movie: "Eventually you realize that you have
taught them all that you can, and you just have to let them be what
they are."

Every line and every word of this movie is significant. It is a
masterpiece of writing and editing. This makes it easy for the viewer
to miss important points. It would sometimes be difficult to follow,
as the movie constantly shifts back and forth between real events and
fantasy. For example, there is actual footage of news broadcasts of
the real Bobby Fischer and as well as vintage photographs of Edward
Lasker, John W. Collins and other famous chess players.

There is the eternal conflict between the boy and his father. There
are also conflicts between the public school teacher and the parents,
the parents with each other, the parents and the coach, and the coach,
an actor, Ben Kingsley playing Bruce Pandolfini, and the chess hustler
in the park, Laurence Fishburne playing Vinnie a/k/a Vincent
Livermore.

In real life, Vincent Livermore died of AIDS just before the movie
came out. I asked Joshua Waitzkin about this (I asked the real life
Joshua Waitzkin, not an actor playing him in the movies) and he told
me that the character "Vinnie" is a composite based in part on Vincent
Livermore and in part on another chess player.

This movie has had a profound effect on the lives of several chess
players. The real life Bruce Pandolfini has become a wealthy man
giving chess lessons for $250 an hour to parents who are convinced
that their brilliant tyke needs lessons from the real Bruce
Pandolfini.

On the other hand, FIDE Master Asa Hoffmann is portrayed in the movie
as a raving schizophrenic who talks to himself. In real life, Asa
Hoffman does not do that and is a much stronger chess player than
Bruce Pandolfini, but Asa has a hard time getting paying chess
students, so he reduces himself to hustling strangers every day for
five dollars a game in Liberty Park near the former World Trade
Center.

It must be mentioned here that the producers of this movie paid the
real Asa Hoffmann a very large sum of money for the rights to have an
actor portray him, so Hoffman is not complaining. In the movie, the
Bruce Pandolfini character says that Asa Hoffmann is the child of two
Park Avenue lawyers and attended Columbia University. I learned
something here. I knew that the father of Asa Hoffmann was a prominent
lawyer. I did not previously know that his mother was an even more
famous lawyer who argued before the United States Supreme Court.

There is a chess player who in real life acts the same way that the
Asa Hoffmann character in the movies acts. That is Larry Gilden, but I
have not seen him in years and I doubt that Joshua Waitzkin has seen
him at all.

In one of the early scenes, Bruce Pandofini takes Fred Waitzkin,
Joshua's father, to see a real chess tournament. The room is filled
with smoke and it is not possible to see from one end of the room to
the other. Playing in this smoke filled room are Joel Benjamin and
Roman Dzindzichashvili, playing themselves in the movie. The point is
that these are the best chess players in the country and yet they are
playing in squalid conditions.

However, I have never seen such bad conditions in a chess tournament.
Smoking has been banned in chess tournaments for years.

There are so many other little details like that that I cannot
possibly list them all, but the big conflict in the movie concerns
chess strategy. Beginners at chess usually want to move out their
queen right away, but experienced players try to keep their queen
safely behind their minor pieces. Bruce Pandolfini, the chess teacher,
teacher Joshua to play positionally and to keep his queen back.
Vincent Livermore, who plays Joshua two minute chess in Washington
Square Park, teaches him to bring out the queen early.

In one of his first tournaments, Joshua plays an early Qf3, in an
obvious beginner's attempt at a Scholars Mate in which White plays the
moves 1 e4 2 Bc4 3. Qf3 4. Qxf7 mate. An adult watching the game
smirks at this move. You have to be a chess player to understand the
reason for the smirk.

The climatic showdown comes when Joshua is on stage battling for the
championship. His rival Jonathan Poe arrives. It will be a fight to
the finish.

I have worked out the moves. I do not believe that anybody else has
done this, so please pay attention. The game starts with a Queens
Gambit Accepted as follows: 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 c6
5. a4 Bf5 6. Ne5 e6 7. Bg5.

This game is being watched on TV by the parents and coaches in another
room. Laurence Fishburne says, "Bring her out". Bruce Pandolfini says
"Don't even think about bringing her out." They both repeat themselves
several times and exchange dirty glances.

What they are talking about is Joshua's next move could be either Qa5,
developing the queen perhaps prematurely, or Be7 or Nd7 which are both
normal developing moves.

This is a key point in the drama. Finally, Josh plays Qa5, disobeying
his teacher.

I tried to figure out which moves came next but it is apparent that
the next bunch of moves are just random moves or more likely were
edited in out of sequence. Eventually, they reach the following
problem-like position: White has a king on e6, rook on e5, knight on
e4, bishop on g5 and pawns on f6 and h4. Black has rook on c8, bishop
on d8, knight on b6, king on c2 and pawns on a7 and g7.

This looks like a problem created by Grandmaster Pal Benko, but
Taghian Taghian told me that Bruce Pandolfini and another chess player
worked it out. Pal Benko was a consultant to this movie, however. The
last move by White was Kd5. It is now Black to play and win. It is a
cute solution. I do not know how difficult it is, because I know the
solution already, since I had to work backwards from the final
position to get to this position. It is almost ridiculous to suggest
that any seven year old child could find over the board the solution
to this problem which was perhaps composed by Grandmaster Pal Benko.

OK Ready? The solution is: 1. ... gxf6 2. Bxf6 Rc6+ 3. Kf5 Rxf6 4.
Nxf6 Bxf6 5. Kxf6 Nd7+ 6. Kf5 Nxe5+ 7. Kxe5 a5 8. h5 a4 9. h6 a3 10.
h7 a2 11. h8=Q a1=Q+ 12. Kf5 Qxh8 White resigns 0-1

By the way, it took me about an hour of playing back and replaying
this video before I got all the pieces in their correct positions and
all the moves right too.

The point is that White has queened his pawn first but Black queens
with check on the long diagonal and wins White's queen. A cute and
unusual solution to an endgame study.

By the way, in real life the game ended in a draw.

Sam Sloan



  #15  
Old September 17th 03, 02:31 PM
Liam Too
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Searching for Bobby Fischer

"sgw" wrote in message . com...
One thing I wanted to point out, for anyone who hasn't seen it on video: I

don't know if this is on the DVD of the movie as well,-- Sally


It's now on DVD.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fischer was arrested on way to radio talkshow in Baguio banana rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 1 July 18th 04 05:29 PM
Searching for Bobby Fischer Sam Sloan rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 27 December 9th 03 01:57 AM
Searching for Bobby Fischer Bruce Draney rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 1 December 5th 03 07:40 PM
"Searching For Bobby Fischer" game Tony Vinci rec.games.chess.analysis (Chess Analysis) 4 November 24th 03 09:07 PM
Searching for Bobby Fischer Sam Sloan rec.games.chess.politics (Chess Politics) 43 October 2nd 03 05:43 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright ©2004-2008 ChessBanter, part of the NewsgroupBanter project.
The comments are property of their posters.
Myspace Backgrounds - vShare YouTube Clone - Myspace Layouts - Loans - Car Parts Online