Jerry wrote:
One time at the Manhattan Chess Club someone punched
a hole in the wall. Should the rules list not punching a hole in
the wall?

Come on, engage your brain a little. You know better than that.

The club should know how to handle disputes. It's impossible
to list all reasons for them, but its quite possible to state the
strategy for how the matter should be resolved, and possibly even
state the rules for appeal. A young club won't have the experience
to do this, and will probably mishandle the first case very
badly, and will, as a result, suffer severe internal disputes,
and may in bad cases split up entirely.

Ever read the FIDE handbook? Section C.06.VII on penalties and
appeals in FIDE tournaments illustrates the general strategy quite well:

http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=C0607

--
Anders Thulin http://www.algonet.se/~ath

On 16 Sep 2003 03:54:33 -0700, (Underground) wrote:

Come on you never saw ralph win a bunch of blitz games from dzinzi.
Maybe at like 5 to one or something.

I certainly did. They played thousands of games. Taking your figure of
5 to one, if they played a thousand games, then Ralph won 200 of them.
That is a lot of games to win against a 2600 blitz player like Roman
Dzindzichashvili.

I never said that Ralph came out ahead.

I did wonder whether Roman was giving him time odds or something. I
never gor close enough to the clock to see it.

Sam Sloan

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:42:01 GMT, Jerry wrote:

I suppose clubs ban people on the theory that banning
one person will bring in more people. Its usually not true.
People who didn't join before don't join after. Chess is
not a game for snobs. The image of wealthy Englishmen
playing chess in their private clubs is not where American
chess has its roots. Chess was brought to this country
by poor immigrants from Russians and other countries.

There was the case of the Tamarkin trial at the Manhattan.
Larry was actually defended by a lawyer who was with the
ACLU. There wasn't any "ism" involved. She just showed
that Larry had not done what he was accused of doing. The
people who falsely accused him should still be hanging their
heads in shame. But I guess we have a high tolerance for
dishonesty.

Could you please tell us more about the Tamarkin Trial art the
Manhattan? When did this happen? What was he accused of? What was the
outcome?

I do remember that Larry Tamarkin was fired as Manager of the
Manhattan Chess Club. I think that this happened in the mid-1980s. I
remember Alan Benjamin talking about it. Larry Tamarkin had alienated
a lot of people, just as he later did at the Marshall.

Sam Sloan

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:56:10 GMT, Jerry wrote:

One time at the Manhattan Chess Club someone punched
a hole in the wall. Should the rules list not punching a hole in
the wall?

No. That was at the Chess and Checker Club of New York, better known
as the "Flea House". Paul Perillo punched a hole in the wall.
Management decided to make it into a new door.

Sam Sloan

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:47:25 -0400, "drovar"
wrote:


"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
When is it appropriate to ban a player from a chess club?
Another example is Stephen Krasnov, a 1900 player, who was banned from
the Mechanics Institute Chess Club in San Francisco while Jim Eade was
the director. In that case, I felt that the ban was totally and
completely unjustified. I do not know what happened,



You feel that the ban was totally and completely unjustified but yet you
admit to not knowing what happened. That's simply not logical. If you don't
know what happened then you have nothing to base an opinion on.

I did not say that I did not know why Krasnov was banned. I did know
why he was banned. In that instance, I was very familiar with the
situation because I was coming to the club regularly when this
happened. What I do not know is exactly how he got back in, but what I
believe is that the Mechanics is a library with a chess room. Krasnov
was a dues paying member and so he appealed to the Trustees of the
Library. He went over Jim Eade's head. The Trustees of the Library let
him back in on probation and he has been back in ever since.

As to the reason for the ban, the reason was a woman. Funny
coincidence: The same woman who was involved in the situation where
Stephen Krasnov was banned from the Mechanics was also involved in the
situation where Grandmaster Roman Dzindzichashvili was banned from the
Mechanics. Isn't that an odd coincidence?

Sam Sloan

Jerry wrote:
One time at the Manhattan Chess Club someone punched
a hole in the wall. Should the rules list not punching a hole in
the wall?

You united statians should be banned from everything. You really are
a stupid nation!

LT
--
Ce message a ete poste via la plateforme Web club-Internet.fr
This message has been posted by the Web platform club-Internet.fr

http://forums.club-internet.fr/

Anders Thulin wrote in message ...
joe mccarron wrote:

Private clubs should not feel obligated to try to spell out any such
rule or regulations. They shoul be free to invite and have anyone
they want to come. I do think a return of the pro rata membership fee
would be the fair thing to do though.

Not sure what a 'private club' is -- by invitation only?

By private I mean not government run or funded. Chess clubs are
really just associations of people who like to meet. There really is
no reason to chart out who must be allowed in and who must be allowed
out. Just like a private home you do not need to draw up rules as to
why you won't let someone hang out in your living room. Its up to
you, and it is freedom of association. If a hole is punched in the
wall you can decide whether to kick the guy out or pay him for
starting construction on a new door.


I don't see that it can be forced, but I would imagine most members
would want to know about club statutes -- just like I read a contract
before I sign it.

Does it seem reasonable? Or is too much left open? I haven't joined
a club in a while, but one of the things I would want to know now
would be about their privacy policy -- will they for instance sell my
name and address to advertising agencies?

There's a beer club in Sweden which clearly states that members must
always use a glass. Drinking directly from the bottle/can is reason enough
for terminating the membership. I'm glad they have the honesty to say
so -- I would not want to find it out the hard way.

At 09:35 AM 9/17/2003 -0700, Mike Goodall wrote:
Dear Sam,
Steven Krasnov, aka Steven Lerner, is one of the most disruptive players to
ever push wood. He fully deserved being banned. However, the TD who banned
him, Joan Arbil, is perhaps the most incompetant TD to ever walk the planet.
Fortunately she no longer works for the Mechanics Chess Club.
Mike

Thanks for clearing this up.

Sam Sloan

In article ,
Latin Thunder wrote:


Jerry wrote:
One time at the Manhattan Chess Club someone punched
a hole in the wall. Should the rules list not punching a hole in
the wall?

You united statians should be banned from everything. You really are
a stupid nation!

LT


Dear Mr. Taylor,

You seem to forget that your football career (and hence your fame and
fortune) as well as your drug conections were all founded in the U.S.,
so I'm suprised to hear America-bashing from you. Of course, I'm even
more surprised you're posting to a chess newsgroup.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

"Latin Thunder" wrote in message
...

Jerry wrote:
One time at the Manhattan Chess Club someone punched
a hole in the wall. Should the rules list not punching a hole in
the wall?

You united statians should be banned from everything. You really are
a stupid nation!

LT
--
Ce message a ete poste via la plateforme Web club-Internet.fr
This message has been posted by the Web platform club-Internet.fr

http://forums.club-internet.fr/

El-Tee -

Why am I not surprised that your U.S. bashing comes from a French address?

God, I'm ashamed to be of French decendency these days......

Regards,

Matt