[in answer to Frank Camaratta's questions]

Frank,

Actually I've followed this issue pretty carefully for years, and I'm
finally fed up, and out of patience, and beyond the reach of "reasonable
arguments."

Kelleher and Tanner say they have tried to "soften" the drug-testing regime,
and they boast about their relative success. But the fact remains, the
drug-testing program grinds on, with more and more pressure to test more and
more players, and the penalties are truly draconian.

It is literally true that a player can drink too much coffee, or take a cold
remedy without a doctor's certificate and permission from FIDE, and fall
seriously afoul of the regulations.

First "offence": Warning!

Second "offence": Two years' ban from competition!!

Third "offence": LIFETIME BAN FROM COMPETITION!!!

This, despite the fact that never yet has there been a single complaint
about drugs in chess.

The excuse is that FIDE "has to do this" because of the Olympics, but chess
is not in the Olympics and is never likely to be, so that's bogus.

Then apologists like John Fernandez and Tim Redman argue, that some nations
"have to comply" with IOC drug regulations, because they are funded by their
governments. To which the rational answer is, fine--let those federations
deal with their own governments.

In fact, drug testing is one more tool by which the FIDE bureaucracy hope to
bring the players and federations to heel. By the threat of applying drug
testing to certain events, or of testing certain players, FIDE can cajole or
browbeat to achieve its ends.

Then there is the "discretionary" enforcement of penalties, which gives FIDE
the whip hand.

Then there is the enormous waste of financial resources that drug testing
entails and will entail.

Not to mention the possibly even more enormous costs associated with the
litigation that will surely result.

And the damage to personal reputations.

And the bad PR for chess.

And the bad feelings between individuals in the chess world.

All over a "problem" that doesn't even exist.

The bottom line is, the USCF Delegates instructed our FIDE reps to "campaign
actively" against FIDE's drug-testing program, and instead, our people have
accommodated the opposition. Jim Eade, our former Zonal President, even
SUPPORTED drug testing publicly, if I'm not mistaken, despite his
instructions to the contrary from the USCF Delegates.

The whole drug-testing program is unnecessary and sordid. I'll go to the
wall on this issue, even if I lose 5-1 on the USCF Executive Board. I fully
expect to have to take this to the USCF Delegates next August, and I will.

Tim Hanke

Ok, I haven't agreed with anything that Tim Hanke has said yet. Until now
that is. His points are valid and I agree with each one and will also back
him up on this.
How about the rest of you?
Leopold


"Tim Hanke" wrote in message
news:UJcvb.256969$HS4.2315661@attbi_s01...
[in answer to Frank Camaratta's questions]

Frank,

Actually I've followed this issue pretty carefully for years, and I'm
finally fed up, and out of patience, and beyond the reach of "reasonable
arguments."

Kelleher and Tanner say they have tried to "soften" the drug-testing
regime,
and they boast about their relative success. But the fact remains, the
drug-testing program grinds on, with more and more pressure to test more
and
more players, and the penalties are truly draconian.

It is literally true that a player can drink too much coffee, or take a
cold
remedy without a doctor's certificate and permission from FIDE, and fall
seriously afoul of the regulations.

First "offence": Warning!

Second "offence": Two years' ban from competition!!

Third "offence": LIFETIME BAN FROM COMPETITION!!!

This, despite the fact that never yet has there been a single complaint
about drugs in chess.

The excuse is that FIDE "has to do this" because of the Olympics, but
chess
is not in the Olympics and is never likely to be, so that's bogus.

Then apologists like John Fernandez and Tim Redman argue, that some
nations
"have to comply" with IOC drug regulations, because they are funded by
their
governments. To which the rational answer is, fine--let those federations
deal with their own governments.

In fact, drug testing is one more tool by which the FIDE bureaucracy hope
to
bring the players and federations to heel. By the threat of applying drug
testing to certain events, or of testing certain players, FIDE can cajole
or
browbeat to achieve its ends.

Then there is the "discretionary" enforcement of penalties, which gives
FIDE
the whip hand.

Then there is the enormous waste of financial resources that drug testing
entails and will entail.

Not to mention the possibly even more enormous costs associated with the
litigation that will surely result.

And the damage to personal reputations.

And the bad PR for chess.

And the bad feelings between individuals in the chess world.

All over a "problem" that doesn't even exist.

The bottom line is, the USCF Delegates instructed our FIDE reps to
"campaign
actively" against FIDE's drug-testing program, and instead, our people
have
accommodated the opposition. Jim Eade, our former Zonal President, even
SUPPORTED drug testing publicly, if I'm not mistaken, despite his
instructions to the contrary from the USCF Delegates.

The whole drug-testing program is unnecessary and sordid. I'll go to the
wall on this issue, even if I lose 5-1 on the USCF Executive Board. I
fully
expect to have to take this to the USCF Delegates next August, and I will.

Tim Hanke

"Tim Hanke" wrote in message news:UJcvb.256969$HS4.2315661@attbi_s01...
[in answer to Frank Camaratta's questions]

Frank,

Actually I've followed this issue pretty carefully for years, and I'm
finally fed up, and out of patience, and beyond the reach of "reasonable
arguments."

Kelleher and Tanner say they have tried to "soften" the drug-testing regime,
and they boast about their relative success. But the fact remains, the
drug-testing program grinds on, with more and more pressure to test more and
more players, and the penalties are truly draconian.

It is literally true that a player can drink too much coffee, or take a cold
remedy without a doctor's certificate and permission from FIDE, and fall
seriously afoul of the regulations.

First "offence": Warning!

Second "offence": Two years' ban from competition!!

Third "offence": LIFETIME BAN FROM COMPETITION!!!

This, despite the fact that never yet has there been a single complaint
about drugs in chess.

The excuse is that FIDE "has to do this" because of the Olympics, but chess
is not in the Olympics and is never likely to be, so that's bogus.

Then apologists like John Fernandez and Tim Redman argue, that some nations
"have to comply" with IOC drug regulations, because they are funded by their
governments. To which the rational answer is, fine--let those federations
deal with their own governments.

In fact, drug testing is one more tool by which the FIDE bureaucracy hope to
bring the players and federations to heel. By the threat of applying drug
testing to certain events, or of testing certain players, FIDE can cajole or
browbeat to achieve its ends.

Then there is the "discretionary" enforcement of penalties, which gives FIDE
the whip hand.

Then there is the enormous waste of financial resources that drug testing
entails and will entail.

Not to mention the possibly even more enormous costs associated with the
litigation that will surely result.

And the damage to personal reputations.

And the bad PR for chess.

And the bad feelings between individuals in the chess world.

All over a "problem" that doesn't even exist.

The bottom line is, the USCF Delegates instructed our FIDE reps to "campaign
actively" against FIDE's drug-testing program, and instead, our people have
accommodated the opposition. Jim Eade, our former Zonal President, even
SUPPORTED drug testing publicly, if I'm not mistaken, despite his
instructions to the contrary from the USCF Delegates.

The whole drug-testing program is unnecessary and sordid. I'll go to the
wall on this issue, even if I lose 5-1 on the USCF Executive Board. I fully
expect to have to take this to the USCF Delegates next August, and I will.

Tim Hanke

Let's see what the New York Times has to report. ("Drugs in Sports
Creating Games of Illusion," November 18, 2003, New England Edition,
p. C19)

"... [S]ports administrators and scientists believe that most athletes
are clean. But there is no way to prove this in a world of uneven,
imperfect drug testing and designer steroids that may not be
detectable, scientists said.

"Thus a corrosive atmosphere persists in sports from football to
baseball, track and field, swimming, cycling and Ping-Pong."

See? Not chess.

David Ames

POLITICIANS ARE THE REAL CHESS WORLD

By Larry Parr

John Fernandez often talks about the rest of the chess world thinking this or
that by which he means the small group of chess politicians in FIDE.

For someone such as the kid the real chess world is the politicians. Players
and writers and the like are there to take orders, if the politicians are able
at long last to assert their primacy.

See further comments below in multiple brackets.

[[[[[Tim Hanke wrote:]]]]]

FIDE's drug-testing program is WRONG, and they are WRONG not
to oppose it.

[[[[[John Fernandez]]]]]

First of all, you're being incredibly silly to just go "this is a bad thing, it
sucks" without somehow allowing for what else might possibly be involved with
it. In a vacuum, sure, it's bad. That doesn't mean that there are positives
associated with it.

[[[[[Parr: In truth, Mr. Fernandez favors drug testing, period. Two years back
he said that he would abandon support of drug testing the moment chess was
rejected for the Olympics. Chess was unexpectedly quickly rejected for the
Olympics. Indeed, the USOC not only nixed chess as a sport worthy of Olympic
inclusion, it refused to recognize chess as a sport at all!

Whereupon, the kid announced that he would continue to support drug testing.
Just like that. The kid will write ANYTHING.]]]]]

[[[[[Mr. Fernandez, lying again]]]]]

Also, we don't KNOW if they [[[[[our FIDE "team"]]]]] are not opposing it. In
fact - it is clear that they have fought against it at various points.

[[[[[Parr: The kid will write ANYTHING. It should not be necesssary to repeat
the record of our FIDE "team" so often, but the kid retails the above lie over
and over again, and the record has to be kept straight.

For the record, then, our "team," which was tasked with campaigning at all
FIDE meetings "actively" against drug testing "in any chess tournament or
match" did NONE of the following:
1. It issued no circular letter to the members of FIDE expressing the official
U.S. position;

2. It issued no press release to any Internet site or to any other body of
chess publicity;

3. It issued not a single position paper;
4. It participated in no meetings or seminars in opposition to drug testing;
5. It offered no interviews and appeared on no chess Internet sites;

6. It held no meetings with groups of FIDE delegates;

7. It hosted no meeting at the FIDE Congress that adopted drug testing;

8. It did NOT EVEN HAND OUT A ONE-PAGE FLYER AT THE FIDE CONGRESS, the kind of
thing done routinely at USCF Delegate meetings.

Our "team" claimed that it made two speeches against drug testing, which
failed -- as they were surely meant to fail, given the total absence of any
kind of preparation before the Congress or any active campaigning.

Instead, our "team" backed a resolution calling on FIDE to keep drug testing
at a necessary minimum.

That's right: our "team" was tasked with fighting against drug testing "in any
chess tournament or match" and ended up SUPPORTING drug testing when FIDE
regarded it as necessary.

And what does FIDE regard as necessary drug testing, if it gets its way? Once
again, Article 3.1 reads: "FIDE is entitled to carry out doping control on any
competitor or in any FIDE Competition."

"Any competitor" may be humiliated, including young children who could be
forced to urinate before a stranger and then carry their urine or blood sample
personally through a series of testing stations.

Our kid is hungry, literally starving, for a place on the FIDE Medical
Commission, which is where the kickbacks will be paid.]]]]]

[[[[[John Fernandez, the man who loves the FIDE General Assembly]]]]]

I suppose you'd just want to have the USCF sit there bitching and moaning about
drug testing, while the rest of FIDE ignores you.

[[[[[Parr: The kid talks about "the rest of FIDE." By which he means NOT the
players, not the writers and the like; but the small group of his fellow chess
politicians.]]]]]

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:11:36 -0700, "King Leopold"
wrote:

Ok, I haven't agreed with anything that Tim Hanke has said yet. Until now
that is. His points are valid and I agree with each one and will also back
him up on this.
How about the rest of you?
Leopold

Yes. On this subject, I am in complete agreement with Tim Hanke, even
though I disagree with him on many other things.

Sam Sloan

This is interesting, but on RGCP, I'm only seeing what you post (and
replies by other RGCP contributors). I haven't seen what Camaratta
said, or what Kelleher said, or what Tanner said, etc. This makes it
more or less impossible for me to follow the arguments. Is there
anything you can (reasonably) do to help with that, or do I just have
to join some listserv?

BTW wasn't Eade "fired" (an oversimplification) over drug testing?
Wasn't Tanner more or less his replacement?

Thanks,
Bruce

"Tim Hanke" wrote in message news:UJcvb.256969$HS4.2315661@attbi_s01...
[snip]

On 24 Nov 2003 13:30:44 -0800, (Bruce
Leverett) wrote:

BTW wasn't Eade "fired" (an oversimplification) over drug testing?
Wasn't Tanner more or less his replacement?

Thanks,
Bruce

Jim Eade was fired for several reasons. His support for drug testing
was one reason, but was only a minor factor.

More importantly was that he attacked people, such as his repeated
public attacks on Yasser Seirawan, a person whom everybody else likes,
he kill-filed people, he did nothing good, he accomplished nothing
positive, he wanted to run for president of the Americas Continents
and finally there was no reason to keep him and many reasons for him
to go.

In a short period of time, Jim Eade managed to alienate almost every
political insider in the USCF.

Sam Sloan

"Tim Hanke" wrote in message news:UJcvb.256969$HS4.2315661@attbi_s01...
[in answer to Frank Camaratta's questions]

Tim Hanke

There's no drug that can make you smarter or play better chess.

C.K.

CHRIS KINGMAN wrote:

There's no drug that can make you smarter or play better chess.

There may be drugs (or other substances) that can lessen
anxiety or nervousness, and so allow a player to play better.

But there is no way simple assertions or assumptions can
establish that: testing is the only way. Until such tests
have been carried out, no drug (or other substance) should be
assumed or accepted to have such properties.

--
Anders Thulin http://www.algonet.se/~ath

Anders Thulin wrote:
CHRIS KINGMAN wrote:
There's no drug that can make you smarter or play better chess.

There may be drugs (or other substances) that can lessen
anxiety or nervousness

Alcohol!!

and so allow a player to play better.

Oh, hang on...


Dave.

--
David Richerby Addictive Umbrella (TM): it's like
www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~davidr/ an umbrella but you can never put
it down!