I played a game as white in which I made a real mess of things. The
PGN file can be found at

http://www.g8wrb.org/chess/paupau.pgn

I've analysed the game using the free open-source chess engine
'crafty'. The results of the analysis can be found at:

http://www.g8wrb.org/chess/paupau.pgn.html

Would anyone with 'chessbase' (preferably a few different versions
from a few different people) be kind enough to analyse the game and
give their results? I hope this analysis would useful to not just
myself, but others too, since a comparision of different programs.

The analysis was done at 120 s per move (i.e. 60 s for white, 60 s for
black). The machine was rather an odd-ball, being a Sun Ultra 80
running 4 x 450 MHz CPUs each with 4 MB of cache ram. My guess is that
the performance would be similar to a Pentium running at 1.5 GHz or
so, although I've never compared resuls with this machine to a
Pentium. Neither have I optimised the code in any way.

You can see the analysis by 'crafty' thinks I played the wrong move at
5, when I played Be3 (which put me 0.21 pawns down) rather than the
Ng5, which would have given me an advantage of 0.72 pawns. It also
thinks I played move 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 .. wrong, but by this point I
was in a real mess anyway.

(Dr. David Kirkby) wrote
in rec.games.chess.misc:


Would anyone with 'chessbase' (preferably a few different versions
from a few different people) be kind enough to analyse the game and
give their results? I hope this analysis would useful to not just
myself, but others too, since a comparision of different programs.


ChessBase is a database application. ChessBase is also the company that
markets a number of chess engines, like Fritz, Hiarcs, Shredder, Junior
etc. I guess you want someone to analyze it with one of those engines.

Crafty does as good a job as any of these engines in pinpointing your weak
tactical spots. If you want, you can download a stronger freeware engine
like Ruffian or ElChinito from http://www.playwitharena.com and see if
they agree.

--
CeeBee


"I am not a crook"

(Dr. David Kirkby) wrote in message . com...
I played a game as white in which I made a real mess of things. The
PGN file can be found at

http://www.g8wrb.org/chess/paupau.pgn

I've analysed the game using the free open-source chess engine
'crafty'. The results of the analysis can be found at:

http://www.g8wrb.org/chess/paupau.pgn.html

Would anyone with 'chessbase' (preferably a few different versions
from a few different people) be kind enough to analyse the game and
give their results? I hope this analysis would useful to not just
myself, but others too, since a comparision of different programs.

The analysis was done at 120 s per move (i.e. 60 s for white, 60 s for
black). The machine was rather an odd-ball, being a Sun Ultra 80
running 4 x 450 MHz CPUs each with 4 MB of cache ram. My guess is that
the performance would be similar to a Pentium running at 1.5 GHz or
so, although I've never compared resuls with this machine to a
Pentium. Neither have I optimised the code in any way.

You can see the analysis by 'crafty' thinks I played the wrong move at
5, when I played Be3 (which put me 0.21 pawns down) rather than the
Ng5, which would have given me an advantage of 0.72 pawns. It also
thinks I played move 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 .. wrong, but by this point I
was in a real mess anyway.

Dear Dr. David Kirkby,

I would be very glad to analyse your game with chessbase. Tomorrow I
will send you the results!

Dr. Hugo Machado

Do you know where I can download the older engine versions for 16 bit
chessbase like Hiarcs or other 16 bit versions? Thanks.

EZoto

"CeeBee" wrote in message
.68

Crafty does as good a job as any of these engines in pinpointing your weak
tactical spots. If you want, you can download a stronger freeware engine
like Ruffian or ElChinito from http://www.playwitharena.com and see if
they agree.

Freeware? Ruffian costs 50 Euros there. ElChinto doesn't seem to
be available.

Marco


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Here is an analysis I got with Fritz 8:

[Event "ICC 45 15"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2003.12.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "g8wrb"]
[Black "paupau"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C50"]
[WhiteElo "1179"]
[BlackElo "1123"]
[Annotator "Fritz 8 (30s)"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[TimeControl "2700+15"]

{C50: Hungarian Defence and Giuoco Pianissimo} 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3.
Bc4 d6 4.
d3 Nf6 {last book move} 5. Be3 h6 {Prevents intrusion on g5} 6. Nc3 a6 {
Covers b5} (6... Na5 7. Qe2 $11) 7. O-O Ng4 8. h3 h5 $2 (8... Nxe3 9.
fxe3 Be7
10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Nxe5+ Kg8 12. Nf7 $14) 9. Nh2 $4 {
letting the wind out of his own sails} (9. hxg4 $142 {
and White gets the upper hand} Bxg4 10. Re1 $18) 9... Nxh2 (9... Nxe3
10. fxe3
Be6 11. Bxe6 fxe6 12. d4 $11) 10. Kxh2 Qf6 {
Black should quickly conclude development.} (10... Be7 11. Nd5 $14) 11.
Ne2 (
11. f4 $5 $16) 11... g5 12. Ng3 (12. Nc3 $142 $5 {is worthy of
consideration}
Ne7 13. d4 $14) 12... g4 $15 {Black gets more space} 13. Kg1 (13. c3
$142 $15 {
would keep White in the game}) 13... gxh3 14. gxh3 $4 {
White has lost his nerve... understandable when you consider his
position} (14.
Qf3 $142 Qg6 15. Nf5 hxg2 16. Qxg2 $19) 14... Bxh3 15. Re1 (15. Nxh5 {
does not improve anything} Qh4 16. Qf3 f5 $19) 15... Qg6 (15... h4 $142
$19 {
and the result of the game is clear: Black will win}) 16. Qf3 h4 17. Qh1
(17.
Qxf7+ {the only chance to get some counterplay} Qxf7 18. Bxf7+ Kxf7 19.
Nf1 $19
) 17... hxg3 18. Qf3 gxf2+ 19. Kxf2 Bg4 20. Bxf7+ (20. Qg2 {is no
salvation}
Rh3 21. Rh1 Rxe3 22. Kxe3 Nd4 23. Bxf7+ Kxf7 $19) 20... Qxf7 21. Qxf7+
Kxf7 22.
Rf1 Ke7 23. Bg5+ (23. Rh1 {cannot undo what has already been done} Rxh1
24.
Rxh1 Kd7 $19) 23... Kd7 24. Rg1 Rh2+ (24... Be6 {and Black can already
relax}
25. a3 $19) 25. Rg2 (25. Kg3 {the last chance for counterplay} Rxc2 26.
Kxg4
$19) 25... Rxg2+ 26. Kxg2 Be7 27. Kg3 (27. Bxe7 {hardly improves
anything} Kxe7
28. c3 Rf8 $19) 27... Bh5 (27... Bxg5 {makes it even easier for Black}
28. Kxg4
Rg8 29. c3 Bc1+ 30. Kh3 Bxb2 31. Rb1 Bxc3 32. Rb3 $19) 28. Rh1 (28. Bxe7
{
a fruitless try to alter the course of the game} Nxe7 29. Rh1 Rh8 $19)
28...
Bxg5 29. Rxh5 Be7 (29... Bf4+ {keeps an even firmer grip} 30. Kf2 Nb4
31. d4
exd4 32. Kf3 $19) 30. Rh7 (30. c3 {cannot change destiny} Rg8+ 31. Kf3
Nd8 $19)
30... Rg8+ 31. Kf3 Rg1 (31... Nd4+ {seems even better} 32. Kf2 Nxc2 33.
a3 $19)
32. Kf2 (32. c3 {is not much help} Rf1+ 33. Ke3 Rb1 $19) 32... Ra1
(32... Rb1 {
might be the shorter path} 33. b3 Rb2 34. a4 $19) 33. a3 Rb1 34. b4 (34.
b3 {
does not help much} Rb2 $19) 34... Rc1 (34... Rb2 $142 {
and Black can already relax} 35. Ke1 Rxc2 36. Kd1 $19) 35. c4 Nd4 36. c5
(36.
a4 {doesn't do any good} Ra1 37. a5 c5 38. bxc5 dxc5 $19) 36... Rc3 37.
cxd6
cxd6 38. Ke3 (38. a4 {does not solve anything} Rxd3 39. Rf7 d5 40. exd5
e4 $19)
38... Rxa3 (38... Rc2 39. Rxe7+ Kxe7 40. b5 Re2#) 39. Rh1 (39. Kd2 {
doesn't improve anything} Rb3 $19) 39... Kc6 (39... Ra2 40. Rh7 Re2#)
40. Rc1+
Kb5 41. Rc7 Bg5+ (41... Ra2 42. Rc2 Bg5+ 43. Kf2 Rxc2+ 44. Kg3 Bf4+ 45.
Kh3
Rh2+ 46. Kg4 Rg2+ 47. Kh5 Nf3 48. d4 exd4 49. e5 Nxe5 50. Kh4 Rh2#) 42.
Kf2 b6
43. Rg7 Bf4 44. Kf1 Rb3 45. Kf2 {White resigns} 0-1



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"Marco" wrote in message news:f87a34c1b64650efa932557505aaf3b0.122502@myga te.mailgate.org...
Here is an analysis I got with Fritz 8:

[Event "ICC 45 15"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2003.12.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "g8wrb"]
[Black "paupau"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C50"]
[WhiteElo "1179"]
[BlackElo "1123"]
[Annotator "Fritz 8 (30s)"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[TimeControl "2700+15"]

{C50: Hungarian Defence and Giuoco Pianissimo} 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3.
Bc4 d6 4.
d3 Nf6 {last book move} 5. Be3 h6 {Prevents intrusion on g5} 6. Nc3 a6 {
Covers b5} (6... Na5 7. Qe2 $11) 7. O-O Ng4 8. h3 h5 $2 (8... Nxe3 9.
fxe3 Be7
10. Bxf7+ Kxf7 11. Nxe5+ Kg8 12. Nf7 $14) 9. Nh2 $4 {
letting the wind out of his own sails} (9. hxg4 $142 {
and White gets the upper hand} Bxg4 10. Re1 $18) 9... Nxh2 (9... Nxe3
10. fxe3
Be6 11. Bxe6 fxe6 12. d4 $11) 10. Kxh2 Qf6 {
Black should quickly conclude development.} (10... Be7 11. Nd5 $14) 11.
Ne2 (

Are these 'human-like sentances' such as "Black should quickly
conclude development" produced by Fritz itself, or are they what you
ahve added yourself?

Crafty can analyse a game, but whilst indicating better moves, these
are only every output in terms of a floating point number indicating
the 'goodness' of a move

({12:-0.20} 5. Be3 Na5 6. Na3 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Qe2 Nxc4 9. ....
({12:+0.72} 5. Ng5 d5 6. exd5 Na5 7. O-O Nxc4 8. dxc4 Bd6 9. ....

so whilst 'crafty' makes it clear Ng5 would have been a better move,
there is no explanation in 'human' like terms explaining why Ng5 would
have been better.

Something like "Black should quickly conclude development". I can see
a lot of advantages of that form of analysis.


Since I set 'crafy' up to only analyse from Whites point of view
(since I played white), it would not comment on any moved played by
Black, but I home you understand what I'm asking, when I want to know
if Fritz outputs human like sentances, or numbers.

Dr. David Kirkby

"Marco" wrote in rec.games.chess.misc:


Freeware? Ruffian costs 50 Euros there. ElChinto doesn't seem to
be available.


Ruffian 1.0.5 is freeware. El Chinito is also available at the same
download section.

http://www.playwitharena.com/directory/download.htm

--
CeeBee


"I am not a crook"

"Dr. David Kirkby" m
wrote in message om

Are these 'human-like sentances' such as "Black should quickly
conclude development" produced by Fritz itself, or are they what you
ahve added yourself?

They were added by Fritz itself, which has a "verbose" option in
the analysis menu. However, I'm not entirely sure how appropriate
some of its comments are. It seems to me that there is a not very
big set of phrases (such as "and White has reached his goal",
"spoils a very nice position", etc) from which Fritz chooses the
appropriate one on each occasion.
Also, I have some doubts on computer analysis in general, although
I must add that I'm only a beginner. Sometimes Fritz will put an
exclamation mark next to moves which I thought were not particularly
good or even mistakes.
For example, here is a game of which I am particularly ashamed.
"Seth" is one of Chessmaster's weaker personalities, with an Elo in
the low 900's or high 800's. I was in a winning position but all I
managed to get was a draw. Now, look at the analysis below. I think
my move 39. Rh8+ was pretty bad, a senseless sacrifice, yet Fritz 8
put an exclamation mark next to it - in spite of the fact that the
following maneuver (which Fritz praised) lost a rook and a knight.

Marco

[Event "Chessmaster 9000 Rated Game"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2003.12.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Marco"]
[Black "Seth"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "Fritz 8 (20s)"]
[PlyCount "101"]
[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
[TimeControl "900+3"]

{A40: Unusual replies to 1 d4} 1. c4 e6 2. d4 Bb4+ 3. Bd2 a5 4. Bxb4
axb4 5. e4
Nc6 6. Nf3 Nh6 7. Be2 b5 8. cxb5 Bb7 9. bxc6 Bxc6 10. O-O Ng4 11. Nbd2
Nxf2 12.
Rxf2 b3 13. axb3 h6 14. d5 Rb8 15. dxc6 d6 16. Ra5 Rg8 17. Bc4 h5 18. e5
f5 19.
exd6 Qxd6 20. Ra7 g6 21. Ng5 Qxc6 22. Bxe6 Rg7 23. Re2 Kf8 24. Nc4 Re7
25. Ne5
Qb6+ 26. Kh1 Kg7 27. Rd2 Rf8 (27... Qxa7 {doesn't improve anything} 28.
Nc6 Qe3
29. Nxe7 Qxg5 $18) 28. Nd7 (28. Rd7 $142 {and White wins} Qc5 29. b4
Qxb4 $18)
28... Qxa7 29. Nxf8 Qe3 (29... Kxf8 30. Rd8+ Kg7 31. Rg8+ Kh6 32. Qc1
$18) 30.
Rd8 (30. Rd7 Kxf8 31. Nh7+ Kg7 32. Rxe7+ Kh6 33. Nf8 Kg5 34. Rg7 Qf2 35.
g3
Qe1+ 36. Qxe1 h4 37. Rxg6+ Kh5 38. Qd1#) 30... Qe5 (30... Qxg5 {
the only chance to get some counterplay} 31. Qd4+ Qf6 $18) 31. b4 (31.
Re8 Qd6
32. Rxe7+ Qxe7 33. Qd4+ Qf6 34. Qd7+ Kh6 35. h4 Qh8 36. Nf7+ Kg7 37.
Qd4+ Kxf8
38. Qd8+ Kg7 39. Qxh8#) 31... c6 32. Qc1 (32. Rd7 Qf6 33. Qd6 Rxd7 34.
Qxd7+
Kh6 35. h4 Qh8 36. Nf7+ Kg7 37. Qd4+ Kxf8 38. Qd8+ Kg7 39. Qxh8#) 32...
c5 33.
Qxc5 (33. Nd7 Qxe6 34. Qc3+ Qe5 35. Nxe5 cxb4 36. Qc6 Rxe5 37. Rg8+ Kxg8
38.
Qxg6+ Kf8 39. Qf7#) 33... Qe1+ $18 34. Qg1 Qe5 35. Qd1 (35. Nd7 Re8 36.
Rxe8
Qd6 37. Rg8+ Kh6 38. Nf7+ Kh7 39. Nf6#) 35... Qe3 36. Nd7 Kh6 (36...
Rxe6 {
cannot change what is in store for ?} 37. Nxe6+ Qxe6 38. Qd4+ Kf7 39.
Ne5+ Ke7
40. Rh8 Qd6 41. Nc6+ Qxc6 42. Qe5+ Kd7 43. Rh7+ Kd8 44. Qd4+ Kc8 45.
Qh8+ Qe8
46. Qxe8#) 37. h4 Re8 (37... Rh7 {cannot change destiny} 38. Rg8 Qxg5
39. hxg5+
Kxg5 40. Qd2+ f4 41. Rf8 Rf7 42. Rxf7 Kh6 43. Qxf4+ g5 44. Qf6#) 38.
Rxe8 Qc3
39. Rh8+ $1 {Boing!} Qxh8 {Decoy to h8} 40. Nf7+ {A double attack} Kh7
41. Nf6+
(41. Nxh8 Kxh8 42. Qd4+ Kh7 43. Nf8+ Kh6 44. Qh8#) 41... Qxf6 $18 42.
Qe1 (42.
Ng5+ $5 {keeps an even firmer grip} Kh6 43. Qc1 Qe7 $18) 42... Qxb2 43.
Ng5+
Kh6 44. Nf7+ (44. Bg8 Qf6 45. Qe8 f4 46. Qd7 Qa1+ 47. Kh2 Qh8 48. Nf7+
Kg7 49.
Ne5+ Kh6 50. Qf7 Qg7 51. Qxf4+ g5 52. Nf7+ Qxf7 53. Qxg5#) 44... Kh7 45.
Qd1 (
45. Qe3 Qa1+ 46. Kh2 f4 47. Qxf4 Kg7 48. Ng5 Kh6 49. Ne4+ Kg7 50. Qf7+
Kh6 51.
Qf8+ Qg7 52. Qf4+ g5 53. hxg5+ Kh7 54. Nf6+ Qxf6 55. Qxf6 h4 56. Qh6#)
45...
Qf6 (45... Kg7 $18 {does not solve anything}) 46. Qd6 (46. Ng5+ $142 {
and White has triumphed} Kh6 47. Qc1 $18) 46... Qxh4+ $11 47. Kg1 Qe1+
48. Kh2
Qh4+ 49. Kg1 Qe1+ 50. Kh2 Qh4+ 51. Kg1 1/2-1/2




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I have to correct myself.... I have just looked at the analysis
again and Fritz was right, it was a brilliant sacrifice. Pity I
was far too stupid to spot it.

Marco


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