On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:17:44 +0200, Bob Lablaw
wrote:

Sam Sloan wrote:

On 15 Mar 2004 06:14:27 -0800, (KidDon) wrote:


(Sam Sloan) wrote in message ...

Some years ago I was playing in a non-rated team match. The opposing
team consisted of scholastic players. I was recruited to play first
board for the Lynchburg team because our team was short one player.

I played a nice combination and won a piece in the opening. I was
thinking about having the game published. However, my opponent refused
to resign. He just kept playing. Finally, I was two rooks up and still
he refused to resign. By now, the game was so long that no chess
magazine would ever publish it. I got mad and started to get angry
with my opponent. Finally, I won his queen too. Then, he resigned. By
then the game had dragged on for 40 moves and was far too long to be
published.

I complained to his coach (his team had a professional coach who was a
well known chess master) about the fact that his player had refused to
resign even though he was two rooks down. The coach explained that he
had told his team players not to resign unless they were at least a
queen down. This explained why he had not resigned when he was two
rooks down but did resign when I won his queen.

In this match, we had to play two games. I got so mad about this that
I played carelessly in the second game and lost.

Sam Sloan

________________________________
That is what many scholastic chess coaches instruct their kids for
scholastic tournaments, especially those with shorter time controls;
the reason being that every 1/2 pt. can help in the team standings,
and as long as the player has a queen on the board against another
scholastic opponent, he/she may be able to force perpetual check or
otherwise secure a draw. In my opinion, such an instruction should not
be given in a tournament that includes adult players, nor should it be
given in the higher levels of scholastics (i.e. players rated @ 1200 -
2200+).

Kiddon


Since several people have asked here is the game. My opponent was a
1900 player. His coach was Rusty Potter, a well known chess master. In
this game, first I won the exchange. Then, on move 28, I won a knight,
leaving me a rook up. This is where I felt he should have resigned.
After that, on move 32, I won another rook. Now, it was ridiculous for
him to play on. Finally, on move 40 I won his queen. This left him in
a king and queen vs, king endgame. I guess he figured that I knew how
to mate with a queen and therefore he resigned.

[Event "Pulaski-Lynchburg Match"]
[Site "Lynchburg, Virginia"]
[Date "1986.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Sloan, Sam"]
[Black "Shelton, Jeffrey"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A00"]

1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 c6 3.h3 e5 4.e4 d4 5.d3 Be6 6.Ne2 c5 7.f4 Nc6 8.Nd2
Qh4+ 9.Kf1 exf4 10.Nf3 Qf6 11.Bxf4 h6 12.Qd2 O-O-O 13.Re1 c4
14.a3 Nge7 15.e5 Qg6 16.Nh4 Qh7 17.Be4 g6 18.Kg2 Bg7 19.Nf3 Bd5
20.Nfxd4 Nxd4 21.Nxd4 Bxe4+ 22.Rxe4 f5 23.exf6 Bxf6 24.Ne6 Nd5
25.Rxc4+ Kd7 26.Nxd8 Bxd8 27.Rd4 Qf7 28.c4 Kc8 29.cxd5 Bb6 30.Re4
g5 31.Qc3+ Kd7 32.Qxh8 gxf4 33.Rf1 Qxd5 34.Qe8+ Kc7 35.Rc1+ Bc5
36.Qe7+ Kb6 37.Rxc5 Qxc5 38.Rb4+ Kc6 39.Rc4 b6 40.Rxc5+ 1-0

Sam Sloan

I think 20 Nfxd4 would have lost you your chance to have the game
published anyway. It allows 20...Bxe4+ 21. dxe4 g4 and after ...Qxe4+
and ...Bxe5 Black has won two pawns at the very least, and possibly the
knight on d4 if you're not careful.

20. Nexd4 would have prevented this.

Thank you very much. You are right of course. The line you give wins
for Black.

I am going to have to check my original scoresheets if I can ever
recover them to see if I really played 20. Nfxd4 because 20. Nexd4
accomplishes the same purposes and is superior in every way.

Just to explain, after 20. Nfxd4 Bxe4+ 21. dxe4 g5 22. Bg3 Qxe5+ Black
obviously has a win because he is about to win the knight on d4.
However, by simply capturing the pawn with a different knight with 20.
Nexd4 not with the knight no longer on e2 the Rook on e1 protects the
pawn on e4 and so White has won a pawn.

Sam Sloan

Poor sportsmanship like that should be met with disciplinary measures by the
TD. It is in very bad taste, disrespectful, and bad for the game.



"Sam Sloan" wrote in message
...
On 15 Mar 2004 06:14:27 -0800, (KidDon) wrote:

(Sam Sloan) wrote in message
...
Some years ago I was playing in a non-rated team match. The opposing
team consisted of scholastic players. I was recruited to play first
board for the Lynchburg team because our team was short one player.

I played a nice combination and won a piece in the opening. I was
thinking about having the game published. However, my opponent refused
to resign. He just kept playing. Finally, I was two rooks up and still
he refused to resign. By now, the game was so long that no chess
magazine would ever publish it. I got mad and started to get angry
with my opponent. Finally, I won his queen too. Then, he resigned. By
then the game had dragged on for 40 moves and was far too long to be
published.

I complained to his coach (his team had a professional coach who was a
well known chess master) about the fact that his player had refused to
resign even though he was two rooks down. The coach explained that he
had told his team players not to resign unless they were at least a
queen down. This explained why he had not resigned when he was two
rooks down but did resign when I won his queen.

In this match, we had to play two games. I got so mad about this that
I played carelessly in the second game and lost.

Sam Sloan
________________________________
That is what many scholastic chess coaches instruct their kids for
scholastic tournaments, especially those with shorter time controls;
the reason being that every 1/2 pt. can help in the team standings,
and as long as the player has a queen on the board against another
scholastic opponent, he/she may be able to force perpetual check or
otherwise secure a draw. In my opinion, such an instruction should not
be given in a tournament that includes adult players, nor should it be
given in the higher levels of scholastics (i.e. players rated @ 1200 -
2200+).

Kiddon

Since several people have asked here is the game. My opponent was a
1900 player. His coach was Rusty Potter, a well known chess master. In
this game, first I won the exchange. Then, on move 28, I won a knight,
leaving me a rook up. This is where I felt he should have resigned.
After that, on move 32, I won another rook. Now, it was ridiculous for
him to play on. Finally, on move 40 I won his queen. This left him in
a king and queen vs, king endgame. I guess he figured that I knew how
to mate with a queen and therefore he resigned.

[Event "Pulaski-Lynchburg Match"]
[Site "Lynchburg, Virginia"]
[Date "1986.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Sloan, Sam"]
[Black "Shelton, Jeffrey"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A00"]

1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 c6 3.h3 e5 4.e4 d4 5.d3 Be6 6.Ne2 c5 7.f4 Nc6 8.Nd2
Qh4+ 9.Kf1 exf4 10.Nf3 Qf6 11.Bxf4 h6 12.Qd2 O-O-O 13.Re1 c4
14.a3 Nge7 15.e5 Qg6 16.Nh4 Qh7 17.Be4 g6 18.Kg2 Bg7 19.Nf3 Bd5
20.Nfxd4 Nxd4 21.Nxd4 Bxe4+ 22.Rxe4 f5 23.exf6 Bxf6 24.Ne6 Nd5
25.Rxc4+ Kd7 26.Nxd8 Bxd8 27.Rd4 Qf7 28.c4 Kc8 29.cxd5 Bb6 30.Re4
g5 31.Qc3+ Kd7 32.Qxh8 gxf4 33.Rf1 Qxd5 34.Qe8+ Kc7 35.Rc1+ Bc5
36.Qe7+ Kb6 37.Rxc5 Qxc5 38.Rb4+ Kc6 39.Rc4 b6 40.Rxc5+ 1-0

Sam Sloan

"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
news:4bT6c.863259$X%5.432285@pd7tw2no...

Poor sportsmanship like that should be met with disciplinary measures by
the
TD. It is in very bad taste, disrespectful, and bad for the game.

What punishment should the TD dish out for failing to resign? Are there
some guidelines that would help the TD make such a decision?

Dan

"Dan Pressnell" wrote in message
. com...
"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
news:4bT6c.863259$X%5.432285@pd7tw2no...

Poor sportsmanship like that should be met with disciplinary measures by
the
TD. It is in very bad taste, disrespectful, and bad for the game.

What punishment should the TD dish out for failing to resign? Are there
some guidelines that would help the TD make such a decision?

Dan



Suggesting that the TD should tell people when to resign is silly.

"Terry" wrote in message
...

"Dan Pressnell" wrote in message
. com...
"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
news:4bT6c.863259$X%5.432285@pd7tw2no...

Poor sportsmanship like that should be met with disciplinary measures
by
the
TD. It is in very bad taste, disrespectful, and bad for the game.

What punishment should the TD dish out for failing to resign? Are there
some guidelines that would help the TD make such a decision?

Dan



Suggesting that the TD should tell people when to resign is silly.

Nobody said anything about TD's telling people to resign. The post is about
poor sportsmanship and whether or not there should be a penalty for it.
Ignorant and disrespectful players like that are bad for the game.

Jason Repa

"Dan Pressnell" wrote in message
. com...
"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
news:4bT6c.863259$X%5.432285@pd7tw2no...

Poor sportsmanship like that should be met with disciplinary measures by
the
TD. It is in very bad taste, disrespectful, and bad for the game.

What punishment should the TD dish out for failing to resign? Are there
some guidelines that would help the TD make such a decision?

Dan



I'm not sure about USCF guidelines, but I have heard of FIDE TD's enacting
disciplinary measures for other transgressions of sportsmanship such as
taunting the opponent. Ponomariov was disqualified from a game for merely
having his cell phone ring.

"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
newsqV6c.864469$ts4.432456@pd7tw3no...

I'm not sure about USCF guidelines, but I have heard of FIDE TD's enacting
disciplinary measures for other transgressions of sportsmanship such as
taunting the opponent. Ponomariov was disqualified from a game for merely
having his cell phone ring.

Thanks for clarifying what can happen for taunting and cell phone
interruptions. If that ever comes up, I'll know.

What penalty do you think the TD should use for failing to resign at an
appropriate time, and what guidelines should be used?

Dan

"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
news:RoV6c.111891$Up2.60154@pd7tw1no...

Suggesting that the TD should tell people when to resign is silly.

Nobody said anything about TD's telling people to resign. The post is
about
poor sportsmanship and whether or not there should be a penalty for it.

Exactly. It's not about taunting and cell phones.

So what penalty do you think should be used?

Dan

"Dan Pressnell" wrote in message
. com...
"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
newsqV6c.864469$ts4.432456@pd7tw3no...

I'm not sure about USCF guidelines, but I have heard of FIDE TD's
enacting
disciplinary measures for other transgressions of sportsmanship such as
taunting the opponent. Ponomariov was disqualified from a game for
merely
having his cell phone ring.

Thanks for clarifying what can happen for taunting and cell phone
interruptions. If that ever comes up, I'll know.

What penalty do you think the TD should use for failing to resign at an
appropriate time, and what guidelines should be used?

Dan



It depends on the situation you moron. If you're too stupid to grasp that
concept you are clearlyl too stupid for the game of chess. Obviously if a
grandmaster has bishop and a knight and half an hour on the clock against a
1300 rated idiot like you, it would be very rude and disrespectful to make
the grandmaster administer mate.

You're the kind of guy that needs everything spelled out for you eh Dan?
Unable to reason and think on your own. No worries, we need people like you
that are good at following orders and not burdened with the curse of an
intelligent mind for factory jobs, customer service, etc.

Jason Repa

"newsnewsnews" wrote in message
news:JRV6c.111993$Up2.53891@pd7tw1no...

What penalty do you think the TD should use for failing to resign at an
appropriate time, and what guidelines should be used?

It depends on the situation you moron. If you're too stupid to grasp that
concept you are clearlyl too stupid for the game of chess. Obviously if a
grandmaster has bishop and a knight and half an hour on the clock against
a
1300 rated idiot like you, it would be very rude and disrespectful to make
the grandmaster administer mate.

You're the kind of guy that needs everything spelled out for you eh Dan?
Unable to reason and think on your own. No worries, we need people like
you
that are good at following orders and not burdened with the curse of an
intelligent mind for factory jobs, customer service, etc.

I don't intend to dispute your intelligence vs. mine. Actually, I don't
think it's necesary and would be pointless.

But from your posts, I'm entirely unable to discern what you think the
penalty should be and what guidelines should be used to arrive at it. Could
you please spell it out for me?

Dan