"Angelo DePalma" writes:

I believe Lapshun is 2500 USCF by the way. I'm not FIDE rated so it made no
sense to compare my USCF with his FIDE.

Yes, it does.

Generally, USCF = FIDE + 100.

No, it's not.

--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

"Angelo DePalma" wrote in message ...

But "close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.


Before the days of radical feminism, it used to be "'Close' only
counts in horseshoes and dancing."

David Ames

Ok Ken. So it makes sense then to compare USCF and FIDE ratings, even though
they're not the same and USCF ratings are almost always higher. Does this
apply even when comparing a USCF 2230 and a FIDE 2230?

I didn't mean to imply that the formula works 100% of the time or that there
was an actual conversion factor. It seems to me that USCF ratings are ABOUT
100 points higher than FIDE ratings. That's what it looks like to me, and
that's the number I've seen mentioned here and there.

You can't even say that "for all practical purposes" our rating differences
would be the same regardless of the scale(s). Lapshun admitted he made a
mistake in capturing on c6 with his Q. A 2650 FIDE player almost certainly
wouldn't make the same error and enter an inferior middlegame, regardless of
whom he was playing.

adp
"Kenneth Sloan" wrote in message
...
"Angelo DePalma" writes:

I believe Lapshun is 2500 USCF by the way. I'm not FIDE rated so it
made no
sense to compare my USCF with his FIDE.

Yes, it does.

Generally, USCF = FIDE + 100.

No, it's not.

--
Kenneth Sloan
Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/sloan/

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:30:56 -0500, "Angelo DePalma"
wrote:

Ok Ken. So it makes sense then to compare USCF and FIDE ratings, even though
they're not the same and USCF ratings are almost always higher. Does this
apply even when comparing a USCF 2230 and a FIDE 2230?

I didn't mean to imply that the formula works 100% of the time or that there
was an actual conversion factor. It seems to me that USCF ratings are ABOUT
100 points higher than FIDE ratings. That's what it looks like to me, and
that's the number I've seen mentioned here and there.

You are making a common mistake. The 100 point difference between USCF
and FIDE ratings only applies to the very highest rated players, like
Kasparov for example.

For players on the low end of the scale, FIDE ratings are higher. To
give an extreme example, John Warlick of the US Virgin Islands had a
2205 FIDE rating and a 1540 USCF rating.

I have defeated many players with FIDE ratings over 2200 in tournament
games, particularly when I was living overseas. Most of them were only
expert strength on the USCF scale.

More recently, John Fernandez has come back from Europe bragging about
all the many highly rated players he beat over there.

Ken Sloan has studied this specific issue and I think his findings
agree with mine. Taken over all, from top to bottom, players with
ratings in both systems will probably be more likely to have a higher
FIDE rating.

Sam Sloan

"Angelo DePalma" wrote:
"Nick" wrote
Chessbase has some games by players (rated 2200+ FIDE, as Angelo DePalma
had stipulated) who did *not* win as White from the position after Black's
move 8 in his game against IM Lapshun (rated 2450 FIDE). For example, the
game Geller-Taimanov (1970 Interzonal) ended in a draw on move 23.

For the record, Angelo DePalma made this original claim about that position:
"If you put this position into your computer you'll see that objectively
White is very close to winning. My guess is any 2200 player would win from
the White position against almost anyone."

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole on my part.

That *undoubtedly* was hyperbole by Angelo DePalma.

Of course it's not a forced win

That was my original point.

and a master would have a difficult time beating Karpov from that setup.

I happen to be at least 2200 USCF in strength, and I should not be
confident of necessarily 'beating Karpov from that' opening position.

Angelo, please consider what the responses might have been if, say,
Sam Sloan had written the hyperbole that you did in your claim.

--Nick

"Angelo DePalma" wrote:
I believe Lapshun is 2500 USCF by the way.

IM Yury Lapshun is rated 2530 USCF.

I'm not FIDE rated so it made no sense to compare my USCF with his FIDE.

I mentioned IM Yury Lapshun's FIDE rating (2450) as a point of *additional
information*, *not* just as a point of comparison with Angelo DePalma.

Generally, USCF = FIDE + 100.

Rec.games.chess.misc is still an international newsgroup, but
rec.games.chess.politics seems to have become a de facto
extremely ethnocentric newsgroup about USCF politics.

--Nick

On 31 Mar 2004 15:54:52 -0800, (Nick) wrote:


I happen to be at least 2200 USCF in strength, and I should not be
confident of necessarily 'beating Karpov from that' opening position.

--Nick

Gee. You are really good. Almost as good as Mig Greengard who informs
us that he is a 2300 strength player, even though his USCF rating is
1834.

http://www.64.com/uscf/ratings/12525629

Sam Sloan

On 31 Mar 2004 22:08:18 GMT, OTHERE (Fifiela) wrote:

You are making a common mistake. The 100 point difference between USCF
and FIDE ratings only applies to the very highest rated players, like
Kasparov for example.

---Folks on low end may be overrated.----

OK; Makes sense and I stand corrected.

Ken Sloan, posting on another group where you used to be a member but
have since unsubscribed, has respoded by saying that very high rated
players, above 2600 are rated 100 points higher by the USCF than by
FIDE. However, low rated players, say around 2000, are rated about 25
points highter by FIDE. He says that the middle group, around 2400,
might be 50 points higher rated by the USCF, but there is no clear
pattern. However, if you draw a straight line on a graph from 1975
USCF = 2000 FIDE to 2700 USCF = 2600 FIDE you will get a reasonable
approximation.

Sam Sloan

Nick,

I like you less and less.

I said "almost" didn't I?

And I took back my blanket statement, didn't I?

And I gave actual statistics, didn't I? Which were pretty convincing that
it's close to a win, by the way, aren't they?

This newsgroup is a haven for exaggerators, liars, misfits, misanthropes,
and assholes. Sam Sloan is by no means the worst in any of those categories.
ANY of them. You, on the other hand, are doing your best to win in several
categories.

I don't need my nose rubbed in my posts by the likes of you.

Now go blow up a train station and leave me alone.

Angelo

Angelo

"Nick" wrote in message
om...
"Angelo DePalma" wrote:
"Nick" wrote
Chessbase has some games by players (rated 2200+ FIDE, as Angelo
DePalma
had stipulated) who did *not* win as White from the position after
Black's
move 8 in his game against IM Lapshun (rated 2450 FIDE). For example,
the
game Geller-Taimanov (1970 Interzonal) ended in a draw on move 23.

For the record, Angelo DePalma made this original claim about that
position:
"If you put this position into your computer you'll see that objectively
White is very close to winning. My guess is any 2200 player would win
from
the White position against almost anyone."

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole on my part.

That *undoubtedly* was hyperbole by Angelo DePalma.

Of course it's not a forced win

That was my original point.

and a master would have a difficult time beating Karpov from that setup.

I happen to be at least 2200 USCF in strength, and I should not be
confident of necessarily 'beating Karpov from that' opening position.

Angelo, please consider what the responses might have been if, say,
Sam Sloan had written the hyperbole that you did in your claim.

--Nick

"Sam Sloan" wrote

For players on the low end of the scale, FIDE ratings are higher. To
give an extreme example, John Warlick of the US Virgin Islands had a
2205 FIDE rating and a 1540 USCF rating.

Maybe he played his last USCF tournament in 1983.

I know two people with higher FIDE ratings than USCF ratings. Both are over
the hill players who got their FIDEs 6-7 years ago. If they played in FIDE
events they'd lose points for sure.

I don't know if it's statistically possible to have the situation you
mention, since there's a good deal of inter-playing among rating groups
except for the over-2700 crowd.

At any rate what you're claiming is counter-intuitive. You'll have to prove
it with some concrete examples, and not just one guy from the Virgin
Islands.

Tell you what...without looking up ratings give me 15 relatively low-rated
NY players who you believe may be FIDE rated. I'll look them up.

Angelo