(drahmiel) wrote in message
...
Can you imagine if a (chess champion or otherwise) Arab-American had
violated U.S. law and made the kind of statements Fischer has made?
His head would be on John Ashcroft's wall.

At least, he presumably would be fiercely personally attacked in racist terms
by some of the writers here who have been attempting to defend Bobby Fischer.

"The incapacity of the United States to see Arabs as other human beings
is consistent with the ebbing of universalism within American society."
--Emmanuel Todd (After the Empire, p. 118)

--Nick

"StanB" writes:
Neither. It is a place where captured terrorist are kept.

If they are terrorists, why have we let hundreds of them go?

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message
...

Neither. It is a place where captured terrorist are kept.

If they are terrorists, why have we let hundreds of them go?

Are you asking a question or making a statement?

In article , StanB
writes

"Hans Jørgen Lassen" wrote in message
...

Matt, if the prisoners at Guantanamo are POW's, as you say, they should
have
been sent home at the end of the war. Mr. Bush did declare the war for
ended
some time ago, didnt he?

Which war? The one with Al Qaeda is still on.

Do you think the war in Iraq isn't on?

From the 'Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of
War' (1950):

***BEGIN EXTRACTS***

Article 17

Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give
only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army,
regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent
information.

[...]

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be
inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any
kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be
threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous
treatment of any kind."

Article 22

Prisoners of war may be interned only in premises located on land and
affording every guarantee of hygiene and healthfulness.

Article 25

Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favourable as
those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same
area.

Article 28

Canteens shall be installed in all camps, where prisoners of war may
procure foodstuffs, soap and tobacco and ordinary articles in daily use.

Article 46

[...]

The transfer of prisoners of war shall always be effected humanely and
in conditions not less favourable than those under which the forces of
the Detaining Power are transferred.

Article 69

Immediately upon prisoners of war falling into its power, the Detaining
Power shall inform them and the Powers on which they depend, through the
Protecting Power, of the measures taken to carry out the provisions of
the present Section. They shall likewise inform the parties concerned of
any subsequent modifications of such measures.

[...]

If protection cannot be arranged accordingly, the Detaining Power shall
request or shall accept, subject to the provisions of this Article, the
offer of the services of a humanitarian organization, such as the
International Committee of the Red Cross, to assume the humanitarian
functions performed by Protecting Powers under the present Convention.

Article 122

Upon the outbreak of a conflict and in all cases of occupation, each of
the Parties to the conflict shall institute an official Information
Bureau for prisoners of war who are in its power.

[...]

A Central Prisoners of War Information Agency shall be created in a
neutral country. The International Committee of the Red Cross shall, if
it deems necessary, propose to the Powers concerned the organization of
such an Agency.

Article 142

Each of the High Contracting Parties shall be at liberty to denounce the
present Convention.

The denunciation shall be notified in writing to the Swiss Federal
Council, which shall transmit it to the Governments of all the High
Contracting Parties.

The denunciation shall take effect one year after the notification
thereof has been made to the Swiss Federal Council. However, a
denunciation of which notification has been made at a time when the
denouncing Power is involved in a conflict shall not take effect until
peace has been concluded, and until after operations connected with the
release and repatriation of the persons protected by the present
Convention have been terminated.

***END EXTRACTS***

--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

"Hans Jørgen Lassen" wrote in message ...
I have never been to Guantanamo, not yet, that is. Is it some kind of
university where people unacquanted with american ways can study american
and international law, the bill of rights, the christian/american concept of
freedom as opposed to the islamic? Or is it, as some maintain, a
concentration camp just like the ones they had in Nazi-Germany and in
stalinist Soviet Union?
Hans J. Lassen

It is obvious to me that this was not an entirely serious question,
but was posted just to be provocative. I am disappointed that Mr.
Nemmers got so angry about it. But it's what you were looking for,
right?

Even though it was just a provocation, I don't know, maybe you are
really interested in Guantanamo. It's a controversial matter in this
country. Just in the last few weeks, the U.S. Supreme Court decided a
case in which the rights of the prisoners were argued. I don't know
the details, but if you are interested, you can probably find out more
about it on the Web or by asking someone who knows how to look up
questions of U.S. law. The decision was in favor of the prisoners,
but I don't remember how exactly it improved their standing.

I had heard that they were caught in the worst of two worlds. A POW
might hope that he would be exchanged for other POW's or that the war
might end. On the other hand, a criminal might hope to get his day in
court. Even if he was guilty, he'd at least find out how long his
sentence would be. But the prisoners in Guantanamo were sort of
caught half way between being POW's and being criminals. There was no
way for them to get exchanged, no way for the war to end, no way for
them to get tried, no way for them to get sentenced. Pretty rough. I
hope that none of my friends in the military, including Mr. Nemmers,
ever gets into a situation like that.

Bruce Leverett

Matt,

Well said!!!

Curt
"Matt Nemmers" wrote in message
news:abVNc.187348$JR4.174852@attbi_s54...
"banana" wrote in message
...
In article LLMNc.202317$Oq2.115366@attbi_s52, Matt Nemmers
writes

"Hans Jørgen Lassen" wrote in message
...
I have never been to Guantanamo, not yet, that is. Is it some kind of
university where people unacquanted with american ways can study
american
and international law, the bill of rights, the christian/american
concept
of
freedom as opposed to the islamic? Or is it, as some maintain, a
concentration camp just like the ones they had in Nazi-Germany and in
stalinist Soviet Union?
Hans J. Lassen

Guantanamo Bay is a U.S. Marine Corps base on the communist island of
Cuba.
It's not Disneyland and I wouldn't recommend going there to study, but
it's
no concentration camp. As long as you're not caught in the United
States
figuring out how or trying to kill Americans or blow **** up, that is.

I thought discussants were considering precisely the conditions for the
captives rather than for anyone else. You'll be aware that none of them
have been tried.

How many Americans do you think most of the prisoners in Guantanamo who
fought on the government side in Afghanistan were 'figuring out how or
trying to kill' before the US armed forces invaded?

It always amazes me how much concern people have for people they don't
know,
being held in a place they've never been, for reasons unbeknownst to them
because they read on the Internet that it's a bad place and Sam Sloan says
they're being mistreated.

This is why I can't stand many liberals. They don't think any other
country
out there should cow-tow to any others with regards to religion, their
military, or their adherence to the Geneva Conventions in a time of
conflict
except the United States.

One of the main reasons I like and respect my Commander In Chief so much
is
because -- although he doesn't always come off as the smartest guy in
speeches -- he does what's right, is a man of action and not words, and
told
the bleeding heart, pussified countries of the world who were against us
going into Iraq to go **** themselves.

My two cents.

Regards,

Matt

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:42:22 +0200, "Hans Jørgen Lassen"
wrote:

I still fail to see the difference between Guantanomo and Siberian
concentration camps. Maybe you could explain the difference?
Hans J

Sure. Easy. The prisoners in Siberia were probably guilty of
something, at least opposition to the state, and they had a chance to
get out.

The prisoners at Guantanomo are not guilty of anything and accordingly
have no chance to get out.

Sam Sloan

"banana" wrote in message
...
In article , StanB
writes

"Hans Jørgen Lassen" wrote in message
...

Matt, if the prisoners at Guantanamo are POW's, as you say, they should
have
been sent home at the end of the war. Mr. Bush did declare the war for
ended
some time ago, didnt he?

Which war? The one with Al Qaeda is still on.

Do you think the war in Iraq isn't on?

No. That ended shortly after it began. Now a war with terrorists, gangsters,
and thugs is going on. It started on 11Sep01.

The following doesn't apply since the terrorists, gangsters, and thugs
didn't agree to the accord.

From the 'Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of
War' (1950):

***BEGIN EXTRACTS***

snip

Stan, were all these guys at Guantanamo soldiers in Bin Laden's army? Has it
been proved that just one of them engaged in terrorist activities? Has it
been proved that all and each of them did?
Hans J.

Matt, if the prisoners at Guantanamo are POW's, as you say, they should
have
been sent home at the end of the war. Mr. Bush did declare the war for
ended
some time ago, didnt he?

Which war? The one with Al Qaeda is still on. ( And now Gomer Tomer
becomes
Hans Jørgen Lassen?)

It always amazes me how much concern people have for people they don't
know,
being held in a place they've never been, for reasons unbeknownst to them
because they read on the Internet that it's a bad place and Sam Sloan says
they're being mistreated.

Matt, does this mean that you find it all right for the nazis to kill 6
mill. jews in their concentration camps - as you don't or didn't know them?

One of the main reasons I like and respect my Commander In Chief so much
is
because -- although he doesn't always come off as the smartest guy in
speeches -- he does what's right, is a man of action and not words, and
told
the bleeding heart, pussified countries of the world who were against us
going into Iraq to go **** themselves.

Does your beloved (albeit slightly stupid) president know many Iraquies? Was
it his love for these close friends of his that drove him to "liberate"
Iraq?

Hans J.