http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.

Fischer, one of the chess world's great eccentrics, was detained at
Tokyo's Narita airport last month when he tried to leave for Manila on a
passport U.S. officials say was invalid.

Japanese immigration officials rejected Fischer's initial appeal against
deportation and his lawyer, Masako Suzuki, has filed a second plea to
Justice Minister Daizo Nozawa.

In a handwritten note made available to the media, Fischer, 61, said the
U.S. government and "U.S.-controlled Japanese government, working in
collusion and in a criminal conspiracy, have illegally confiscated and
illegally physically destroyed my perfectly valid in every way U.S.
passport".

The letter, copies of which were made available to the media, added: "As
a result of the above-stated criminal act, as well as innumerable other
vicious crimes against me by the U.S. government, I no longer wish to be
an American citizen."

Fischer's lawyer Suzuki told a news conference he would likely become a
stateless person for some time and that his supporters would try to have
the office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR)
register him as a refugee.

Suzuki said Fischer phoned the U.S. embassy in Japan on Thursday and
conveyed his intention to renounce his citizenship.

But renunciation of his citizenship cannot take effect until he has met
a U.S. consular official and conveyed his intent in person, she said.

A U.S. embassy spokesman declined to comment on the matter of Fischer's
citizenship, but said that in general "renunciation of citizenship is a
process, it takes some time, it's not done instantly".

Besides filing with the UNHCR, Fischer would also look for countries
willing to let him stay, Suzuki said.

"We want to look far and wide for countries that are willing to accept
him," Suzuki said.

NO RETURN TO U.S. She declined to say if Fischer had expressed any
preferences but John Bosnitch, a Tokyo-based Canadian journalist and
communications consultant who is advising Fischer, said Fischer was
continuing to look at the option of seeking German citizenship, since
his father was German.

Documents to prove his German citizenship were still being collected,
Bosnitch told the same news conference.

Suzuki said she had asked the Tokyo District Court on Friday to halt
deportation procedures against Fischer.

One thing that is clear is that Fischer has no desire to return to the
United States.

"He doesn't have any expectation of a fair trial in the United States,"
Bosnitch said, adding that Fischer himself had said he would be a victim
of "a kangaroo court and a show trial" if he returned to the United
States.

Bosnitch said Fischer had written a second letter renouncing his
citizenship that his supporters would hand to the U.S. embassy in Tokyo
as early as Friday.

Fischer became world chess champion in 1972 when he beat Boris Spassky
of the Soviet Union in a victory seen as a Cold War propaganda coup for
the United States.

The title was taken from him three years later after his conditions for
a match against Anatoly Karpov, also of the Soviet Union, were rejected
by chess officials.

Karpov became champion by default.

Fischer, who arrived in Japan in April, has been wanted in the United
States since 1992 when he violated U.S. economic sanctions by going to
Yugoslavia for a chess match in which he won $3 million for beating old
rival Spassky.

The elusive chessmaster then vanished, only to resurface after the
September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States to give an interview to
a Philippine radio station in which he praised the strikes and said he
wanted to see America "wiped out".

Fischer has filed for refugee status in Japan, which accepts only
political refugees. His supporters in Japan say he is being persecuted
by the United States.

Fischer's supporters say he renewed his passport in 1997 and never
received a letter issued in December 2003 revoking it.

U.S. State Department officials in Washington have said it took years
for the legal process to catch up with Fischer.

Fischer, whose mother was Jewish, has also stirred controversy with
anti-Semitic remarks.

***END ARTICLE***

--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

In article , banana banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk writes

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.

snip

A U.S. embassy spokesman declined to comment on the matter of Fischer's
citizenship, but said that in general "renunciation of citizenship is a
process, it takes some time, it's not done instantly".

Note the amazing arrogance of the scumbag US officials, as if they have
the right to force someone outside of the US to be treated as a US
citizen if he doesn't want to be.

--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

Are you as delusional as Fischer? He has been a U.S. citizen, and
claims all the rights he believes a U.S. passport affords him (assuming
that the passport is his personal property), yet feels the U.S. income
tax laws and executive orders of President of the U.S. do not apply to
him - and that he can simply renounce his citizenship because he's been
caught breaking these laws. Doesn't want to be treated as a U.S.
citizen? Sure Bobby, how 'bout you just pay all your back taxes (and
associated penalties) and we'll let you go wherever you like - although
you may need to find another country to grant you a personal passport...

John

banana wrote:

In article , banana banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk writes


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.


snip

A U.S. embassy spokesman declined to comment on the matter of Fischer's
citizenship, but said that in general "renunciation of citizenship is a
process, it takes some time, it's not done instantly".


Note the amazing arrogance of the scumbag US officials, as if they have
the right to force someone outside of the US to be treated as a US
citizen if he doesn't want to be.

"John A Swartz" wrote in message
...
Are you as delusional as Fischer? He has been a U.S. citizen, and
claims all the rights he believes a U.S. passport affords him (assuming
that the passport is his personal property), yet feels the U.S. income
tax laws and executive orders of President of the U.S. do not apply to
him - and that he can simply renounce his citizenship because he's been
caught breaking these laws. Doesn't want to be treated as a U.S.
citizen? Sure Bobby, how 'bout you just pay all your back taxes (and
associated penalties) and we'll let you go wherever you like - although
you may need to find another country to grant you a personal passport...

John

Writing a note on the back of a napkin won't work like it did in 1972. He
has to make the statement in front of a US Consular General !!


banana wrote:

In article , banana banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk writes


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.


snip

A U.S. embassy spokesman declined to comment on the matter of Fischer's
citizenship, but said that in general "renunciation of citizenship is a
process, it takes some time, it's not done instantly".


Note the amazing arrogance of the scumbag US officials, as if they have
the right to force someone outside of the US to be treated as a US
citizen if he doesn't want to be.

In article , John A Swartz
writes

Are you as delusional as Fischer? He has been a U.S. citizen, and
claims all the rights he believes a U.S. passport affords him (assuming
that the passport is his personal property), yet feels the U.S. income
tax laws and executive orders of President of the U.S. do not apply to
him - and that he can simply renounce his citizenship because he's been
caught breaking these laws.

Try to understand this: US law does not apply outside of US
jurisdiction. Whether or not a refugee from State X is given asylum by
State Y does not depend solely on what State X says about whether or not
the person is a citizen of State X. That is not how international law on
refugees works. (How on earth could it be?) For example, let us say a
few years ago a refugee from Afghanistan turned up in, say, the UK,
before the illegal US/UK invasion. The decision on whether or not to
grant asylum status would not be taken solely on the basis of whether or
not the Taliban government claimed the person was still an Afghan
citizen.

Doesn't want to be treated as a U.S.
citizen? Sure Bobby, how 'bout you just pay all your back taxes (and
associated penalties) and we'll let you go wherever you like

Do you understand that the US authorities have no legal authority to
tell anyone outside US jurisdiction where they can or can't go? Yes or
no? Tell me whether or not you know this, please.

- although
you may need to find another country to grant you a personal
passport...

John

banana wrote:

In article , banana banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk writes


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.


snip

A U.S. embassy spokesman declined to comment on the matter of Fischer's
citizenship, but said that in general "renunciation of citizenship is a
process, it takes some time, it's not done instantly".


Note the amazing arrogance of the scumbag US officials, as if they have
the right to force someone outside of the US to be treated as a US
citizen if he doesn't want to be.


--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

In article , Bugsy
writes

"John A Swartz" wrote in message
...
Are you as delusional as Fischer? He has been a U.S. citizen, and
claims all the rights he believes a U.S. passport affords him (assuming
that the passport is his personal property), yet feels the U.S. income
tax laws and executive orders of President of the U.S. do not apply to
him - and that he can simply renounce his citizenship because he's been
caught breaking these laws. Doesn't want to be treated as a U.S.
citizen? Sure Bobby, how 'bout you just pay all your back taxes (and
associated penalties) and we'll let you go wherever you like - although
you may need to find another country to grant you a personal passport...

John

Writing a note on the back of a napkin won't work like it did in 1972. He
has to make the statement in front of a US Consular General !!

Whether or not the US authorities recognise the renunciation (as if it
were some 'request to be stood down') does not determine whether or
other 'sovereign' entities grant asylum on the grounds of persecution.

Fischer has no obligations to the US government. He is not living in US
jurisdiction.

If they say he's a 'criminal' (but don't say it about the USCF, who also
traded in Yugoslavia), why don't they make a request for extradition?

banana wrote:

In article , banana banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk writes


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.

--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

I'm neither the original poster nor the challenger in this thread, I'm just
jumping in the discussion.

A US citizen is subject to applicable US laws regardless of where he is.
However, the key qualifier here is "applicable" and that's where reasonable
minds differ (in all sorts of directions and in all shades of colors, to say
something superfluous).

By renouncing US citizenship, whatever it was that applied, if any, would no
longer apply. That is unequivocal for acts done after renunciation.

However, for acts done prior to renunciation, I would think that whatever it
was that applied, if any, would still apply.

That notwithstanding, the following two legal doctrines may indicate that
whatever it was that applied, if any, has been waived by the US.

(1) doctrine of laches: it has been 12 years since whatever it was that
applied, if any, came into being without the US pursuing the issue.

(2) doctrine of acquiescence: the US issued a passport to Fischer AFTER
whatever it was that applied, if any, came into being.

The US has not just "slept on their rights" (1), but has also "let Fischer
have his sweet dreams" (2), so to speak.

If someone had acted so permissively to such a high degree as the US, and
then, after such a long time tried to take a hard nose approach, then
usually a court would refuse any enforcement of whatever it was that
applied, if any.

I am almost positive that the above (and of course more) have been pleaded
by Fischer's lawyer in her submissions and I am cautiously optimistic
(application of law can be unpredictable).


"banana" wrote in message
...
In article , John A Swartz
writes

Are you as delusional as Fischer? He has been a U.S. citizen, and
claims all the rights he believes a U.S. passport affords him (assuming
that the passport is his personal property), yet feels the U.S. income
tax laws and executive orders of President of the U.S. do not apply to
him - and that he can simply renounce his citizenship because he's been
caught breaking these laws.

Try to understand this: US law does not apply outside of US
jurisdiction. Whether or not a refugee from State X is given asylum by
State Y does not depend solely on what State X says about whether or not
the person is a citizen of State X. That is not how international law on
refugees works. (How on earth could it be?) For example, let us say a
few years ago a refugee from Afghanistan turned up in, say, the UK,
before the illegal US/UK invasion. The decision on whether or not to
grant asylum status would not be taken solely on the basis of whether or
not the Taliban government claimed the person was still an Afghan
citizen.

Doesn't want to be treated as a U.S.
citizen? Sure Bobby, how 'bout you just pay all your back taxes (and
associated penalties) and we'll let you go wherever you like

Do you understand that the US authorities have no legal authority to
tell anyone outside US jurisdiction where they can or can't go? Yes or
no? Tell me whether or not you know this, please.

- although
you may need to find another country to grant you a personal
passport...

John

banana wrote:

In article , banana
banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk writes



http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...ldNews&storyID
=560586&section=news
or click: http://tinyurl.com/4ycnw

***BEGIN ARTICLE***

Fischer renounces U.S. citizenship

Fri 6 August, 2004 12:08

By Masayuki Kitano

TOKYO (Reuters) - Former world chess champion Bobby Fischer, wanted by
Washington for defying sanctions on Yugoslavia, plans to renounce his
U.S. citizenship, according to a lawyer working on his appeal against
deportation from Japan.


snip

A U.S. embassy spokesman declined to comment on the matter of Fischer's
citizenship, but said that in general "renunciation of citizenship is a
process, it takes some time, it's not done instantly".


Note the amazing arrogance of the scumbag US officials, as if they have
the right to force someone outside of the US to be treated as a US
citizen if he doesn't want to be.


--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968)

..
It looks to me as if Graeme was right: Fischer is indeed, a boldfaced liar.

It is pretty obvious that the real reason Bobby wishes to renounce his U.S.
citizenship *right now,* is that it is a handicap at the moment, and one which
is likely to cause his deportation to the "wrong" country, to a country where
he is charged with committing a crime.


"As a result of the above-stated criminal act, as well as innumerable other
vicious crimes against me by the U.S. government, I no longer wish to be
an American citizen."


The "torture" Bobby allegedly received in the Passadena jailhouse should have
sufficed for a renunciation at the time.
There followed several lawsuits -- which Bobby lost every time, regardless of
the merits of the case. But even this was not sufficient for a renunciation.
Then came the Bekins Storage Company fiasco, but again, still not sufficient
to cause Fischer to renounce his U.S. citizenship!
But now, NOW we have a situation where it is "inconvenient" for Fischer to be
a U.S. citizen! NOW he is upset, and wishes to renounce that which was
formerly a handy provider of an international passport.
This is called opportunism, and the way Bobby played it makes him out to be a
boldfaced liar, as well. I was clearly wrong about Fischer having a strong
aversion to flat-out lying.







Fischer became world chess champion in 1972 when he beat Boris Spassky
of the Soviet Union in a victory seen as a Cold War propaganda coup for
the United States.


Detante', not Cold War! :-)

..
That notwithstanding, the following two legal doctrines may indicate that
whatever it was that applied, if any, has been waived by the US.
(1) doctrine of laches: it has been 12 years since whatever it was that
applied, if any, came into being without the US pursuing the issue.


The U.S. did in fact, follow-up. A warrant was issued for Fischer's arrest!
Since he has been overseas the whole time, the only opportunity to seize and
arrest Fischer would have been during his brief, unexpected visits to U.S.
embassies overseas. I don't believe that is one of the primary functions of an
embassy (to arrest its visitors). I could be wrong.




(2) doctrine of acquiescence: the US issued a passport to Fischer AFTER
whatever it was that applied, if any, came into being.


Wrong department. The Department of Justice is responsible for enforcing the
law, while the department which issues passports has an entirely different
function.
As we saw with the ballyhoo surrounding the placement of blame for the 9/11
catastrophe, even agencies within the *same* field (i.e. the CIA, the FBI, the
Secret Service) do not always successfully cooperate, nor is their any
guarantee to criminals that they must.



The US has not just "slept on their rights" (1), but has also "let Fischer
have his sweet dreams" (2), so to speak.


No pardon has yet been issued. Fischer can still dream, but right now they
are talking about applying for German citizenship, and if that is not grasping
at straws, then I don't know what is. Bobby has already violated several of
their laws on public radio.


IMO, if the USA had taken Fischer into custody, and after holding him awhile
and taking note of the charges against him, THEN released him, you would have a
decent case.

But as it is, the only "evidence" that there is some kind of retaliatory
action taking place as a result of Fischer's anti-U.S. rants, exists entirely
in the imagination of those who have heard such rumors, and unthinkingly
swallowed them whole.

There is no real evidence that the passport revokation's date was a forgery
-- this is merely speculation. There is no evidence that anyone planned in
advance to nab Fischer at the airport -- this is mere speculation. There was
no extradition conspiracy -- Fischer is *not* being extradited. He is being
deported.
The laws pertaining to deportation were not passed just for Bobby Fischer.
Believe it or not, before Fischer was ever born there were laws and police to
enforce them! I know this is hard to comprehend -- the *original* idea that
the entire world does _not_ revolve around Bobby Fischer -- but if yuo close
your eyes and try real hard, click your heels together three times and say the
magic words....your blue suede shoes will light-up, and take you back to
Kansas! :-)


















Don't forget Toto!

On following up or not, the "follow ups" of the US were pretty perfunctory
until now, 12 years later. For example, it would have been a very simple
matter to send the Japanese police after him, if the US really wanted him,
but the US did not even do that. The US could have sent the police of all
the other countries after him too, the US always knew or could have easily
known in which country he was. To me these very lax kinds of "follow ups" do
not reach the threshold of overcoming the doctrine of laches.

On the withdrawal of passport by the "wrong" US agency, the US as a single
legal person does not have the latitude to argue that it is the left arm
that did it, the rest of the body does something else. It is all of the
behaviour of the US as a single legal person that has to be judged. The
issuance of a passport to Fischer does make applicable the doctrine of
acquiescence of the US to Fischer wandering around in the world, instead of
getting hold of him.

Therefore, IMHO, laches and acquiescence of the US have been clearly
established and the US has to overcome the two doctrines of laches and
acquiescence to enforce the deportation. In the laws of many countries there
is a time limit, often 6 years or thereabout, for most causes after which
you may no longer enforce anything anymore based on those two doctrines. I
am almost positive that this too has been pleaded in the submission of
Fisher's lawyer.


"NoMoreChess" wrote in message
...
.
That notwithstanding, the following two legal doctrines may indicate that
whatever it was that applied, if any, has been waived by the US.
(1) doctrine of laches: it has been 12 years since whatever it was that
applied, if any, came into being without the US pursuing the issue.


The U.S. did in fact, follow-up. A warrant was issued for Fischer's
arrest!
Since he has been overseas the whole time, the only opportunity to seize
and
arrest Fischer would have been during his brief, unexpected visits to U.S.
embassies overseas. I don't believe that is one of the primary functions
of an
embassy (to arrest its visitors). I could be wrong.




(2) doctrine of acquiescence: the US issued a passport to Fischer AFTER
whatever it was that applied, if any, came into being.


Wrong department. The Department of Justice is responsible for
enforcing the
law, while the department which issues passports has an entirely different
function.
As we saw with the ballyhoo surrounding the placement of blame for the
9/11
catastrophe, even agencies within the *same* field (i.e. the CIA, the FBI,
the
Secret Service) do not always successfully cooperate, nor is their any
guarantee to criminals that they must.



The US has not just "slept on their rights" (1), but has also "let
Fischer
have his sweet dreams" (2), so to speak.


No pardon has yet been issued. Fischer can still dream, but right now
they
are talking about applying for German citizenship, and if that is not
grasping
at straws, then I don't know what is. Bobby has already violated several
of
their laws on public radio.


IMO, if the USA had taken Fischer into custody, and after holding him
awhile
and taking note of the charges against him, THEN released him, you would
have a
decent case.

But as it is, the only "evidence" that there is some kind of retaliatory
action taking place as a result of Fischer's anti-U.S. rants, exists
entirely
in the imagination of those who have heard such rumors, and unthinkingly
swallowed them whole.

There is no real evidence that the passport revokation's date was a
forgery
-- this is merely speculation. There is no evidence that anyone planned
in
advance to nab Fischer at the airport -- this is mere speculation. There
was
no extradition conspiracy -- Fischer is *not* being extradited. He is
being
deported.
The laws pertaining to deportation were not passed just for Bobby
Fischer.
Believe it or not, before Fischer was ever born there were laws and police
to
enforce them! I know this is hard to comprehend -- the *original* idea
that
the entire world does _not_ revolve around Bobby Fischer -- but if yuo
close
your eyes and try real hard, click your heels together three times and say
the
magic words....your blue suede shoes will light-up, and take you back to
Kansas! :-)


















Don't forget Toto!