"Wick" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yet another classic keystone in Parr's arch of intellectual honesty.

O come on! While Chessville did make the summation quoted here by Louis
Blair, which could not recommend Schiller's work as a 'standard opening
work', Mr. Blair repressed other worth the Chessville reviewer /did/ suggest
for the title.

We are not dealing with 'intellectual honesty', we are dealing with petty
commentaries by assorted characters all based on perceived Schiller
shortcomings, and with no one else.

We are also dealing Mr. Deer, with people who write to their own posts using
another name [!] that is, a false one - how honest is that?

If you want to talk of the worth of books, please go ahead, and compare one
with another, for yourself and even for other people who buy them. But there
is nothing honest about this /obsessive/ and singular campaign..

Not only is Schiller's chief critic the past book reviewer for a chess site
that has banned his books, but Schiller himself has criticised USCF's rule
making procedures, and you are associated with USCF, no?

USCF and its B&E vendor combine and complain - and this very strange
relationship is all too likely to continue, on whatever secretive terms it
next decides at the forthcoming board meeting.

I cannot call that intellectual dishonesty, but I can call it cowardly
hypocracy.

If you wish to talk of public standards in a public newsgroup, please have
the decency to first engage in intellectual honesty in your own behaviors.

Phil Innes



Wick Deer

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 14:05:43 GMT, "Chess One"
wrote:


"Wick" wrote in message
roups.com...

Yet another classic keystone in Parr's arch of intellectual honesty.

O come on! While Chessville did make the summation quoted here by Louis
Blair, which could not recommend Schiller's work as a 'standard opening
work', Mr. Blair repressed other worth the Chessville reviewer /did/ suggest
for the title.

Exactly right. It is Blair who is guilty of intellectual dishonesty,
because Blair quotes just one paragraph of a lengthy review which
cites good points and bad points of Schiller's book.

The reviewer, who is rated 1700 by the USCF, says that the reader
would be better off buying NCO, BCO or ECO.

However, ECO, the Encuclopedia of Chess Openings, had been out of
print since 1987. It comes hardbound in five volumes and costs more
than $100.

Batsford's Chess Openings by Kasparov was last published in 1997.

Nunn's Chess Openings, is the most recent, published in 1999. However,
this seems to be a different sort of book than Schiller's book, which
was published in 2002.

Also, the reviewer complains that Schiller did not give enough
information about the openings. However, since the Schiller book is
768 pages, it is difficult to imagine how Schiller could have written
more. It weighs 3.4 pounds. Yet it is available for only $16.47, an
amazing bargain, it seems to me. No wonder so many have been sold.

Sam Sloan

"David Ames" wrote in message
oups.com...

Note that Mr. Lohner is a beginner. Even if Schiller's book, Standard
Chess Openings, is a terrible one (and it probably isn't) it won't harm
his non-existent rating and it will give him something to work with
while he plays against other players who are not yet as good as
Schiller.

David Ames

There is that! Its actually a profound point, and a subject of some humour
by GMs.

After all, if you can't overcome finding an error in a book, what are you
going to do OTB while playing serious chess with an average 2.5 minutes of
time? Is the book a substitute for what you can't see? Would you even know
it was an error unless someone pointed it out to you? Why be so independent
on the book?

GMs say that people cram too much and don't work out enough for themselves,
then complain about results as if you could cram your way to the top and do
nothing else. Maybe the resentment over errors has something to do with
bursting this fantasy bubble - "I would have won if the book was right!"
Wrong.

Phil Innes

Larry Parr wrote (5 Nov 2005 19:55:28 -0800):

So, then, the latest attack on Eric Schiller
amounts to this: he writes a work on the
openings that is not a bad book but is not
the "standard" work by the judgment of
some, though not of his publisher in the
advertising.

_
"... I purchased the 'Standard Chess Openings'
because I didn't really understand what I was
looking for.
_
On the Standard chess openings book, it states
that it is 'The standard reference for all major
openings'. Being a beginner, I didn't realize that
this was not the case.
_
This being said, I don't think its a 'bad' book. I
have found some pretty bad spelling mistakes
... I suppose that as I progress in my chess
ability, I will notice other errors..." - J.Lohner
(4 Nov 2005 20:43:00 -0800)
_
_
"I cannot recommend this book." - David Surratt
(5-18-03)
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm
_
_
"This is a book that goes beyond bad - 'Standard
Chess Openings' has to be considered a book that
can do more harm than good."
_
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/standco.txt

_
Larry Parr wrote (5 Nov 2005 19:55:28 -0800):

As for Eric's mistake regarding the Westerinen
book, he mentally connected the wrong author
with the wrong book.

_
Where are the right author and the right book
identified?

_
Larry Parr wrote (5 Nov 2005 19:55:28 -0800):

Eric provides a niche product at an attractive
price. Hence he sells. He is not Boleslavsky
writing on the King's Indian in a German edition
available, say, for $49.95; he is writing books
often available for less than $10. I see nothing
wrong with that. He meets a need, and from
what I understand, his sales indicate that many
customers feel satisfied.

_
"I purchased the 'Standard Chess Openings'
because I didn't really understand what I was
looking for." - J.Lohner (4 Nov 2005
20:43:00 -0800)
_
"The reader would be better off purchasing
NCO, BCO, ECO, or any other CO, ..."
- David Surratt (5-18-03)
_
Modern Chess Openins: $19.77

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...83155&v=glance
_
Nunn's Chess Openings: $19.77

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/185...83155&v=glance
_
Standard Chess Openings: $24.95

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/094...83155&v=glance

_
Larry Parr wrote (5 Nov 2005 19:55:28 -0800):

The attack on Eric has to do with a defense of
censorship, blacklisting and contract-breaking
by the good people who run ChessCafe.

_
"If the Minnesota Vikings decide that they don't
want Randy Moss playing for their team, that's
not blacklisting. If all 32 NFL teams agree that
no one will allow Randy Moss to play for any
of those teams, that's blacklisting. Similarly,
one company not carrying Schiller books is
not blacklisting" - Harold Buck (Wed, 21 Sep 2005
23:30:18 -0500)

Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 14:05:43 GMT):

While Chessville did make the summation quoted
here by Louis Blair, which could not recommend
Schiller's work as a 'standard opening work' ...

_
Those last five words do not represent a qualification
that was actually in the David Surratt sentence.
_
"I cannot recommend this book." - David Surratt
(5-18-03)
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm

Sam Sloan wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:12:40 GMT):

It is Blair who is guilty of intellectual dishonesty,
because Blair quotes just one paragraph of a
lengthy review which cites good points and bad
points of Schiller's book.

_
Sam Sloan neglects to mention that I provided a
link to make it quite easy for anyone to access the
complete review. How honest was it for Sam
Sloan to choose not to mention this?

_
Sam Sloan wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:12:40 GMT):

The reviewer, who is rated 1700 by the USCF,
says that the reader would be better off buying
NCO, BCO or ECO.

_
"... or any other CO" - David Surratt (5-18-03)
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm

_
Sam Sloan wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:12:40 GMT):

the Schiller book ... is available for only $16.47, an
amazing bargain, it seems to me.
_
Modern Chess Openins: $19.77
_

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...83155&v=glance
_
Nunn's Chess Openings: $19.77
_

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/185...83155&v=glance

Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:20:37 GMT):

Maybe the resentment over errors has something
to do with bursting this fantasy bubble - 'I would
have won if the book was right!' Wrong.

_
"I purchased the 'Standard Chess Openings'
because I didn't really understand what I was
looking for." - J.Lohner (4 Nov 2005
20:43:00 -0800)
_
_
"The reader would be better off purchasing
NCO, BCO, ECO, or any other CO, ..."
- David Surratt (5-18-03)
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm
_
_
"'Standard Chess Openings' is, at its best,
sloppy and, at its worst, a study in self-contradictions
and inexcusable inconsistencies. If there is one thing
worse than sending an unarmed man into battle, it is
sending forth a misinformed man. Such will be the fate
at the chessboard of anyone who blindly follows many
of Schiller's ideas contained in this book. One is
tempted to suggest that 'Standard Chess Openings'
contain a warning affixed to its cover: Danger - This
book may be hazardous to your rating!
_
This is another Schiller tragic-comedy, aimed at
inexperienced players who are, perhaps, unfortunately
at the point in their chess development where they are
most vulnerable. This is a book that goes beyond bad
- 'Standard Chess Openings' has to be considered a
book that can do more harm than good."
_
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/standco.txt

In yet another Schiller-chiller thread this is becoming very funny Louis -
even the original Chessville reviewer thought I made a more honest synopsis
of his review than you did with your partiality.

I see you continue below to now quote an anonymous Chesscafe reviewer.
Perhaps this is the advice that an 1800 player offers the public since it
gives one a chance to prate about one's wisdom to the 'inexperienced player'
as if... g

What your comments immediately below are doing tagged after mine is unknown.

I was mentioning that there is a time to put books aside and do your own
work, rather than clutch them like a security blanket. Perhaps obsessing
about the rightness of the moves actually inhibits your play? Knowing the
right moves doesn't mean you understand anything about the position. And it
didn't inhibit Tal.

If you have never played over 1800, what is the worth of your opinion on
this aspect of things?

Phil Innes

"Louis Blair" wrote in message
ups.com...
Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:20:37 GMT):

Maybe the resentment over errors has something
to do with bursting this fantasy bubble - 'I would
have won if the book was right!' Wrong.

_
"I purchased the 'Standard Chess Openings'
because I didn't really understand what I was
looking for." - J.Lohner (4 Nov 2005
20:43:00 -0800)
_
_
"The reader would be better off purchasing
NCO, BCO, ECO, or any other CO, ..."
- David Surratt (5-18-03)
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm
_
_
"'Standard Chess Openings' is, at its best,
sloppy and, at its worst, a study in self-contradictions
and inexcusable inconsistencies. If there is one thing
worse than sending an unarmed man into battle, it is
sending forth a misinformed man. Such will be the fate
at the chessboard of anyone who blindly follows many
of Schiller's ideas contained in this book. One is
tempted to suggest that 'Standard Chess Openings'
contain a warning affixed to its cover: Danger - This
book may be hazardous to your rating!
_
This is another Schiller tragic-comedy, aimed at
inexperienced players who are, perhaps, unfortunately
at the point in their chess development where they are
most vulnerable. This is a book that goes beyond bad
- 'Standard Chess Openings' has to be considered a
book that can do more harm than good."
_
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/standco.txt

Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:16:04 GMT):

even the original Chessville reviewer thought I made
a more honest synopsis of his review than you did
with your partiality.

_
I did not claim to be making a "synopsis". Moreover,
I provided a link to make it quite easy for anyone to
access the complete review.
_
http://chessville.com/reviews/Standa...s_Openings.htm

_
Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:16:04 GMT):

I see you continue below to now quote an anonymous
Chesscafe reviewer. Perhaps this is the advice that
an 1800 player offers the public since it gives one a
chance to prate about one's wisdom to the 'inexperienced
player' as if... g

_
"one compares at the bookstore a Schiller book
with the typical savage review given at the
ChessCafe.
_
It is a two-step: 1. Read review at the Cafe,
if such is your desire; and 2. Check book at
bookstore, if they carry it. Or one reverses
the process: 1. Notice Schiller book at
bookstore, checking it out a bit; and 2. Read
Cafe review.
_
Using either method, does the review match
the book in question?" - Larry Parr (5 Oct 2005
19:15:07 -0700)

_
Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:16:04 GMT):

I was mentioning that there is a time to put books
aside and do your own work, rather than clutch them
like a security blanket. Perhaps obsessing about the
rightness of the moves actually inhibits your play?
Knowing the right moves doesn't mean you understand
anything about the position. And it didn't inhibit Tal.

_
Is Tal a good example to consider when trying to help
beginners?

_
Phil Innes wrote (Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:16:04 GMT):

If you have never played over 1800, what is the worth
of your opinion on this aspect of things?

_
What assertion of mine (if any) does Phil Innes
consider to be misguided because of a low rating?

Phil Innes wrote:

We are also dealing Mr. Deer, with people who write to their own posts
using
another name [!] that is, a false one - how honest is that?


I assume this is a comment on Larry Parr and his alter ego "cynic"

Wick Deer