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| Tags: keene, kingston, part, reviews |
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#132
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LOUIE'S LANCE
I do not think Keene should have described Steinitz's record as `abysmal' when he meant something like shamefully non-existent'. But, in the grand scheme of things, it's not all that serious: certainly not worth bearing a grudge about until one of the parties dies. -- Dave Richberby The issue is whether Louie Blair should hold a grudge until he dies because Ray Keene described Steinitz's tournament record as "abysmal." I agree that other words would be better, but "abysmal" in its first definition means "bottomless" and "fathomless," and GM Keene's description of a world champion who plays in no tournaments is not, therefore, completely inapt. In Ray's usage "abysmal" becomes not merely a description of a record; it becomes a judgment on a non-record. I favor Louie holding a grudge on the matter until he dies. There is malignant, cankered verse (the Inferno without the art) in the man's efforts. He has no Beatrice, but he does have his questions, laden with innuendo, which are so often innocent of tense progression and the subjunctive. Our Quixote on a hobbyhorse, lacking lance or windmill. |
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#133
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"The issue is whether Louie Blair should hold a
grudge until he dies because Ray Keene described Steinitz's tournament record as "abysmal." " Every time Keene makes an error and is called on it, first he denies it is an error at all, then he claims it is somebody else's fault, then he claims his critics aren't strong enough players to appreciate what he really meant, and finally he claims that his critics are fanatics for taking such a small error so seriously. This way, Keene considers himself safe from all criticism: either the critic buys one of the numerous excuses he offers for why the error occured, and if he doesn't, the critic is a fanatic who is pursuing the poor, innocent Keene unreasonably. Perhaps if Keene could simply admit a simple error instead of using any excuse to deny it, he would find people are less "fanatic" in trying to get him to admit the obvious. |
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#134
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Sustitute Keene with Parr and the paragragh still makes sense.
Perhaps if Keene could simply admit a simple error instead of using any excuse to deny it, he would find people are less "fanatic" in trying to get him to admit the obvious. |
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#135
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PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES
Perhaps if Keene could simply admit a simple error instead of using any excuse to deny it, he would find people are less "fanatic" in trying to get him to admit the obvious. -- Skeptic Mr. Skeptic complained about GM Keene spelling his name incorrectly. When GM Keene tried to correct this error, our resident troll (avital.pil) still has not provided the correct spelling. People in glass houses.... |
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#136
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Larry Parr wrote (5 May 2006 19:28:20 -0700):
The issue is whether Louie Blair should hold a grudge until he dies because Ray Keene described Steinitz's tournament record as "abysmal." _ Larry Parr, of course, produces no quote of anyone advocating holding a grudge until he dies because GM Keene described Steinitz's tournament record as "abysmal". _ Larry Parr wrote (5 May 2006 19:28:20 -0700): I agree that other words would be better, but "abysmal" in its first definition means "bottomless" and "fathomless," and GM Keene's description of a world champion who plays in no tournaments is not, therefore, completely inapt. In Ray's usage "abysmal" becomes not merely a description of a record; it becomes a judgment on a non-record. _ Not surprisingly, Larry Parr does not address the specific issue of whether or not GM Keene wrote something that was misleading. Does Larry Parr want to say something about what chessplayers would be likely to conclude after reading an assertion that Steinitz had an abysmal tournament record over the years 1886-1894? |
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#137
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WHAT AND WHO IS ABYSMAL?
By GM Raymond Keene Larry Parr wrote (5 May 2006 19:28:20 -0700): I agree that other words would be better, but "abysmal" in its first definition means "bottomless" and "fathomless," and GM Keene's description of a world champion who plays in no tournaments is not, therefore, completely inapt. In Ray's usage "abysmal" becomes not merely a description of a record; it becomes a judgment on a non-record. Well put! A judgement on a non record. Let's now clear up Louis Blair's nonsense about my use of the word abysmal in relation to Steinitz's career: I believe that those who are trying to prove I made a mistake by describing Steinitz's tournament record from 1886-1894 as "abysmal" are guilty of the old crime of taking my words out of context. My meaning was so clear that these people have either failed to read the original or are just plain lying! 1. what is the source -- my book Moscow Challenge page 9 2. what do i say - I list strong tournaments of minimum 9 rounds won outright by each champion during his reign. I note that the records of both Steinitz and Botvinnik were abysmal in this respect given the length of their reigns 3. I also give the length of reign and the number of tournaments won by each champion 4. this is very clear and not misleading -- the figures are there for all to see 5. I also explain why the tournament records of Steinitz and Botvinnik are abysmal because -- and this is stated very clearly -- they were both very active in match play instead! 6. the actual figures are one tournament win by Steinitz from 1886-1894 and one first prize outright to Botvinnik in a strong GM event from 1948-1963 covering his various periods as champion. In fact I was overly lenient to Steinitz since his sole win came in 1894 -- the year he was still champion -- but it came after he lost to Lasker, so he should have been credited with no tournament victories during the period. Chessplayers who can read undoubtedly would doubtless conclude from what I wrote that Steinitz was busy playing matches and therefore had little time for tournaments in that period. I took great pains to be very clear on such points, always explaining my reasons. Anyone who denies this has either not seen what I wrote and is thus unaware of the context or is simply lying! __________________________________________________ _____ Not surprisingly, Larry Parr does not address the specific issue of whether or not GM Keene wrote something that was misleading. Does Larry Parr want to say something about what chessplayers would be likely to conclude after reading an assertion that Steinitz had an abysmal tournament record over the years 1886-1894? -- Louis Blair __________________________________________________ ________ |
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#138
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TAGGED AND BAGGED Louis Blair: It seems to me that misleading-is-fair is the sort of attitude that can lead to talk of a reviewer deciding to "concentrate" on a game, when, in reality, all the reviewer did was mention a sentence from the INTRODUCTION to the game, and comment on how little it had to do with the game. Phil Innes: "When I previously asked Louis Blair to say what he meant by fair [about Winter's comment on BCO], he declined to do so and referred me to a dictionary. I suppose I could read the range of meanings of 'fair' there, but what Blair thinks fair is obscure." You know, it's funny how Mr. Innes is constantly "challeneging" critics of LP, LE, and now RK, to define their terms. If Mr. Innes were to do this in a fair manner, he would need to quite frequently "challenge" the other side as well. It comes off looking as though Innes were a toady, a mindless crony who serves his master(s) by harrassing their critics endlessly with these silly "demands". I'm not sure where a toady ranks -- is it a notch above or below a parrot, I wonder. One problem with being a toady is that, when one's masters are hung out to dry, there is usually no escape for the toadys -- they go down with the ship, right along with its captain. Here we have a classic case in point; the Nutty Professor has both Ray Keene and Larry Parr "tagged and bagged" for their lies and hypocrisy. The only "escape" would be to kill-file him and pretend like nothing happenned. LOL -- help bot |
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#139
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Skeptic wrote:
"Perhaps if Keene could simply admit a simple error instead of using any excuse to deny it, he would find people are less "fanatic" in trying to get him to admit the obvious." Can a zebra change his stripes? -- help bot |
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#140
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Larry Parr wrote:
"Mr. Skeptic complained about GM Keene spelling his name incorrectly. When GM Keene tried to correct this error," Note how much easier it is for *someone else* to admit an error made by Keene. Even his allies can sometimes admit he errs -- if only in hopes of garnering personal info to use in future ad hominem attacks. I expect this admission of error is payback for Keene not mentioning Larry Parr along with himself, Evans, and Schiller. ![]() -- help bot |
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