copyright on chess games

**Bruce** · August 23rd 07, 10:42 PM posted to rec.games.chess.politics

On Aug 23, 4:41 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Aug 23, 11:54 am, samsloan wrote:

On Aug 22, 8:26 pm, Bruce wrote:

On Aug 22, 7:04 pm, Bruce wrote:

On Aug 21, 9:13 am, Bruce wrote:

On Aug 21, 8:49 am, guenter wrote:

and does it matter whether those positions or games or endgames
were created by hand or by computer ?

and what about chess-problems : mate in 2 , selfmate,...
are they copyrightable ?

What can be copyrighted are written works specifically created by
someone. If I ran off copies of pages from a book of chess problems
and sold them that someone had composed that would be a copyright
violation because the book contained the collection of created chess
problems.

However it would be very difficult to prove that I was violating
copyright laws by creating my own book of problems, unless there was
nearly identical similarity to the problems in my book and the
problems in someone else's previously created work. There is also
what is called "fair use". That means that you can use small amounts
of copyrighted materials under fair use without violating the law.
For example using a single problem from a collection would probably
qualify as fair use, but including several pages of problems composed
in a copyrighted book by another author in my own book would be a
copyright violation.

Think of it as a person not being able to copyright a word or a short
phrase but if I copy verbatim his/her entire poem or story I would be
violating copyright laws. I can't steal someone else's creative
content. To prove I am in violation however the person would have to
show that his content was so creative and unique that it is obvious
that I stole it from him/her.

In short, a person would have to prove that your problems were so
identical in creative content and there was substantial evidence to
indicate that you had plagiarized them from a copyrighted work for you
to be in trouble.

What you were asking was if it was safe to publish famous games of
chess masters without violating current copyright laws and I said yes,
it is safe to do that. That is not the same as photocopying a book
written by someone else that is copyrighted and using it to instruct
or resell.

And if Ken can point out a single problem that is so creative and
unique that it has been copyrightable I would like to hear about it.
I'm not saying there isn't one, but I would like to know where it is
and who composed it and if anyone ever tried to plagiarize it and lost
in court.

Okay I do need to make a correction here, fair use of copyrighted
materials only applies to specific uses of the copyrighted information
such as teaching, research, criticism and not use of the material for
commercial purposes. I just attended a workshop on this last Friday
and it was talking about use of copyrighted materials in classrooms
for instructional purposes.

I still am asking for a single example of a chess problem being
copyrighted. I am going to dub this the "Sloan" challenge.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

According to the U.S. Copyright website the following things can be
copyrighted:

§ 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general26
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in
original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of
expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be
perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or
with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the
following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of
operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in
which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such
work.

If one were going to try and get a copyright on a chess problem they
would probably have to go under either #5 or #1. Im guessing most
chess problems unless they have written explanations by the author
explaining them would fall under pictorial. Then the question becomes
was the problem so unique and so creative that this would allow the
author to copyright it?

letter b above implies to me that chess combinations cannot be
copyrighted because they are concepts, ideas, principles or discovery
and those things are specifically exempted from being copyrighted,
unless I'm reading that wrong.

Anyway if anyone can find a single example of a chess problem that has
been successfully copyrighted I will acknowledge that they are right
and I am mistaken.

Bruce has made an interesting point (for a change).

It does not appear that a composed chess problem such as a mate-in-
three would qualify for any of the categories under which a copyright
could be taken.

I have a difficult time believing that this is correct. Would not
Rubik's Cube or some other famous puzzle qualify for a copyright?

But perhaps it does not.

Sam Sloan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Rubiks Cube might be copyrightable because it was unique and created
by someone.

A chess position is difficult to prove is unique and created by
someone. If you say a chess problem is copyrightable then at what
point is a problem shown on a chess board so unique and creative that
it can be claimed as a creative work?

Can I put a rook and pawn ending in a diagram on a chess board and
claim that my diagram is copyrightable? That would be an absurd claim
because it takes no creative ingenuity to set up a simple rook and
pawn ending. However if I were able to devise a problem so creative
that no one else had ever thought it up before or even considered
setting it up before I might be able to claim a copyright on that
problem.

I can find no example of any such problem existing which is why I was
asking you or Ken to cite one so we could see what it looks like?

Even books of problems can be so similar to other books of problems
that unless they appear to be identical there is almost no way of
distinguishing a set of chess problems from another set of chess
problems.

I seem to recall that Laszlo Polgar had sued someone for copyright
violations for using identical problems to those he used in his huge
book of chess combinations, but I don't know if the suit was dropped
or if it ever even made it to court or if it did how it was decided?

A regular chess position cannot be copyrighted, because it is a part
of sequence, idea or strategy that is a component of the game
itself. What could be copyrighted would be a highly complex problem
with the solution supplied by the person who created the problem. The
key in my opinion would be that it would have to be unique, meaning
the chances were infinitesimal that this position could be known,
played or even reproduced except by the author. A position with ten
white queens or simultaneous mating of two white kings, for example
which couldn't occur in a normal game but could be incorporated into a
creative chess problem might be a good test case.

We could also ask this question: What form of mathematical problem
could in theory be copyrighted? If we can answer that question we
will come closer to knowing what kind of chess problem can be
copyrighted?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually Rubik's Cube was an object so it was patented not
copyrighted.

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