MISPRINT

In the game to which you refer, the young Mr. Denker
missed an obvious *mate-in-one* by 23.h4++. To me,
this brings into serious question the level of understanding
behind the grandmasterly-looking opening moves. -- Help Bot

Unlike Greg Kennedy, I would not imagine that
Arnold Denker's understanding would be called into question
question even if he had missed a mate in one. But as it turned
out, he did not.

Alas, the Denker-Felt game had a misprint.
The move played was 21. ... Bh3 rather than 21. ... Bh6.
Also the final diagram was wrong.

I am told both mistakes have been rectified. On the other hand,
an annotation after 21. ... Bh6 suggests the move was supposed
to be 21. ... Bh3 as in MY BEST CHESS GAMES 1929-1976 by
GM Arnold Denker (Dover edition, 1981).

With dismay I note that that the mistaken 21.
.... Bh6 also appeared in my long Chess Life
appreciation of Arnold (March 2005). On the other
hand, the correct 21. ... B-R6 appeared in the Denker-Parr
volume THE BOBBY FISCHER I KNEW AND OTHER STORIES.

Yours, Larry Parr


Chess One wrote:
This week there appears a new memoire of Arnold Denker at Chessville
including Arnold's favorite game [score given below].

(9/23) Chessville Vignettes: If You Must Meet Arnold Denker, a remembrance
by Larry Parr. Denker, former US Champion, and once among the top-20
players in the world, about whom Al Horowitz once wrote, "He can handle an
attack with a fertility of ideas and richness of imagination that are rare."

full article: http://www.chessville.com:80/misc/Hi...tes/Denker.htm

Denker,A - Feit,H
New York Interscholastic Championship, 1929

1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bb7 5.0-0 Nf6 6.c4 Be7 7.Nc3 d6 8.d5 e5 9.Ng5
Bc8 10.e4 0-0 11.f4 exf4 12.Bxf4 fxe4 13.Ncxe4 Nxe4 [diagram] 14.Bxe4 Bxg5
15.Qh5 Rxf4 16.Qxh7+ Kf7 17.Bg6+ Kf6 18.Rxf4+ Bxf4 19.Qh4+ Bg5 20.Qe4 Be3+
21.Kh1 Bh6 22.Rf1+ Kg5 23.Bh7 1-0

Note the date above, and also this one:

"in 1995, at age 81, he finished sixth in the U. S. Open."

Brava!

Phil Innes
Chessville's Honorable Spam Director

On Sep 26, 6:43 pm, " wrote:
MISPRINT

In the game to which you refer, the young Mr. Denker

missed an obvious *mate-in-one* by 23.h4++. To me,
this brings into serious question the level of understanding
behind the grandmasterly-looking opening moves. -- Help Bot

Unlike Greg Kennedy, I would not imagine that
Arnold Denker's understanding would be called into question
question even if he had missed a mate in one. But as it turned
out, he did not.

Alas, the Denker-Felt game had a misprint.
The move played was 21. ... Bh3 rather than 21. ... Bh6.
Also the final diagram was wrong.

I am told both mistakes have been rectified. On the other hand,
an annotation after 21. ... Bh6 suggests the move was supposed
to be 21. ... Bh3 as in MY BEST CHESS GAMES 1929-1976 by
GM Arnold Denker (Dover edition, 1981).

With dismay I note that that the mistaken 21.
... Bh6 also appeared in my long Chess Life
appreciation of Arnold (March 2005). On the other
hand, the correct 21. ... B-R6 appeared in the Denker-Parr
volume THE BOBBY FISCHER I KNEW AND OTHER STORIES.

Yours, Larry Parr



Chess One wrote:
This week there appears a new memoire of Arnold Denker at Chessville
including Arnold's favorite game [score given below].

(9/23) Chessville Vignettes: If You Must Meet Arnold Denker, a remembrance
by Larry Parr. Denker, former US Champion, and once among the top-20
players in the world, about whom Al Horowitz once wrote, "He can handle an
attack with a fertility of ideas and richness of imagination that are rare."

full article:http://www.chessville.com:80/misc/Hi...tes/Denker.htm

Denker,A - Feit,H
New York Interscholastic Championship, 1929

1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bb7 5.0-0 Nf6 6.c4 Be7 7.Nc3 d6 8.d5 e5 9.Ng5
Bc8 10.e4 0-0 11.f4 exf4 12.Bxf4 fxe4 13.Ncxe4 Nxe4 [diagram] 14.Bxe4 Bxg5
15.Qh5 Rxf4 16.Qxh7+ Kf7 17.Bg6+ Kf6 18.Rxf4+ Bxf4 19.Qh4+ Bg5 20.Qe4 Be3+
21.Kh1 Bh6 22.Rf1+ Kg5 23.Bh7 1-0

Note the date above, and also this one:

"in 1995, at age 81, he finished sixth in the U. S. Open."

Brava!


Good work done by Help Bot. Now the Correction has been made. I think
Zebediah is using Computer to beat Master Level. He is playing such
risky moves like hanging its both knights Still winning the Game.

Can nomorechess still beat the Master Level?

Bye
Sanny

Play Chess at: http://www.GetClub.com/Chess.html

OCTOGENARIAN DENKER

Anyway, 2375 is not too bad at age 81! My gosh! That's not too bad at
all.

Phil Innes

Speaking of Arnold's result in the 1995 U.S.
Open, I gave his win (which is listed as a draw in my
CL article) over Emmanuel Perez, rated 2388 at the
time. Perez as Black grabbed the b-pawn, and we know
the rest. Arnold made it look so easy, which we know
it was not. I introduced that game with this comment:
"A strong young master learned the octogenarians,
bald and benevolent, bite."

Yours, Larry Parr

Chess One wrote:
"help bot" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 25, 5:56 am, "Chess One" wrote:

Note the date above, and also this one:

"in 1995, at age 81, he finished sixth in the U. S. Open."


The official crosstable shows he tied for 6th through 12th,
which is not quite the same as "finishing sixth".

When I raised the same issue about a certain bloke's finish at Nottingham, I
was assured that the official way of recording these things in the US these
days, is to say 6th.

It was a
very good tourney for GM Denker, as he went from USCF
2322 all the way up to 2375! Note that (apart from Alex
Yermolinsky) this event was not exactly packed with
grandmasters; so where the heck were they? Was the
U.S. Closed championship huge that year? In any case,
at 81 years old, he smacked around several masters; this
reminds me of Jack Palance falling to the stage floor and

My daughter aged 16 was crew on a big wooden boat up there on Erie, a lake
boat built to fight the Brits, and a couple of guests showed up, the Gov of
PA, plus a 'star'. Guests had to put on life jackets, and the star couldn't
quite figure his out, so #1 daughter went over and tied it for him, but he
tried to 'help'. "Put your f*** hands down, man!" she said to Jack Palance.
Which he did, quiet as a lamb. She had no idea who he was.

Anyway, 2375 is not too bad at age 81! My gosh! That's not too bad at all.

Phil Innes

doing one-armed pushups at the Academy Awards. (Big
deal; let's see him do just *one* with no arms!)


-- help bot

On Sep 26, 5:55 am, "Chess One" wrote:

In the game to which you refer, the young Mr. Denker
missed an obvious *mate-in-one* by 23.h4++.

Good catch, but actually the errata was caught beforehand, and will be
changed to the correct Black's 21st move which is 21. ...
Bh3. Hence the diagram also needs correction from 21 forward. //PI


When I visited the Web site, there were no diagram
errors in this game, but there was an error in the text
below one diagram.

In reading Larry Parr's article, I was astounded that
AD would pick a game where he had missed an ultra-
obvious mate-in-one, and I started thinking about
things like severe time pressure, and chess clocks.


-- help bot

On Sep 26, 6:02 am, "Chess One" wrote:

"in 1995, at age 81, he finished sixth in the U. S. Open."

The official crosstable shows he tied for 6th through 12th,
which is not quite the same as "finishing sixth".

When I raised the same issue about a certain bloke's finish at Nottingham, I
was assured that the official way of recording these things in the US these
days, is to say 6th.

Never rely on other imbeciles to tell you how to do
something -- it only leads to trouble! You must one
day learn to think for yourself, and so why not start
now and get it over with?

The key idea here is that saying he finished sixth
lends a false impression that he was the sixth best
player (in terms of this result, anyway); but of course
*you* would never want to deceive anybody, so you
give all the facts, like when talking to the FBI:

"No, officer, I didn't actually *see* Mr. Kortchnoi toss
Mr. Karpov out the window, but I overheard him threaten
to do it and when I looked back, Mr. Karpov had suddenly
disappeared from sight, while his antagonist had a big,
evil smile on his face. Unfortunately, we were only on
the first floor."


It was a
very good tourney for GM Denker, as he went from USCF
2322 all the way up to 2375! Note that (apart from Alex
Yermolinsky) this event was not exactly packed with
grandmasters; so where the heck were they? Was the
U.S. Closed championship huge that year? In any case,
at 81 years old, he smacked around several masters; this
reminds me of Jack Palance falling to the stage floor and

My daughter aged 16 was crew on a big wooden boat up there on Erie, a lake
boat built to fight the Brits

Those scum! The way they treated us, you would
think they owned us or something, like a colony.


and a couple of guests showed up, the Gov of
PA, plus a 'star'. Guests had to put on life jackets, and the star couldn't
quite figure his out, so #1 daughter went over and tied it for him, but he
tried to 'help'. "Put your f*** hands down, man!" she said to Jack Palance.
Which he did, quiet as a lamb. She had no idea who he was.

Ah, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Learned
how to talk from her old man, I see.



Anyway, 2375 is not too bad at age 81! My gosh! That's not too bad at all.

He no doubt left several masters scratching their heads
in wonder at how they could lose to such an old fellow.

Chess can be a strenuous game, and not only is it
tougher to recall things as you get older, but the clock
seems to speed up on you as well.


I went to chessgames.com and (finally) replayed the
correct moves of this game, where the note about
the King retreating to e7 actually made sense. On
that site, a note can be found in which some poster
borrowed intermittant comments by "Lev Albert and
Larry Parr" ("What villiage idiot...?"). Again, there is
no objectivity; my view is that Rybka could simply
take over in mid game and probably squeak out a
draw through a miraculous defense; but not when
the annotator talks as though Black does not even
get to move while White goes thrice in a row! LOL


-- help bot

On Sep 26, 4:05 pm, " wrote:

Speaking of Arnold's result in the 1995 U.S.
Open, I gave his win (which is listed as a draw in my
CL article

I would like to take this opportunity to draw attention
to the fact that those antequarians/historians who are
always demanding proof of something in the form of a
printed article are barking up a wrong tree. Setting an
error in type and wasting dead trees to disseminate
it widely, in no way amounts to proof of an event's
actual occurrence. To the contrary, all it really proves
is that Error gets half way 'round the world before Fact
can get his pants on.


over Emmanuel Perez, rated 2388 at the
time. Perez as Black grabbed the b-pawn, and we know
the rest. Arnold made it look so easy, which we know
it was not. I introduced that game with this comment:
"A strong young master learned the octogenarians,
bald and benevolent, bite."


I wouldn't want to brag about that monstrosity of a
sentence. How about this instead: "A strong young
master learned that octogenarians, bald and
benevolent, bite." (Proofreading is easy; what is hard
is finding a writer who is not too ego-bloated to realize
he needs one.)


-- help bot

"help bot" wrote in message
oups.com...

Look here bot - when the Wikipedia Blair-action started, these Vignettes
were a good way to rescue material - amended or not - and kept from
destruction.

At the time there were very many opinions about the quality of writing et
cetera - and I responded then as now, 'shut up and show us' if you're so
smart. Get it?

It was a
very good tourney for GM Denker, as he went from USCF
2322 all the way up to 2375! Note that (apart from Alex
Yermolinsky) this event was not exactly packed with
grandmasters; so where the heck were they? Was the
U.S. Closed championship huge that year? In any case,
at 81 years old, he smacked around several masters; this
reminds me of Jack Palance falling to the stage floor and

My daughter aged 16 was crew on a big wooden boat up there on Erie, a
lake
boat built to fight the Brits

Those scum! The way they treated us, you would
think they owned us or something, like a colony.

That's what the native americans said, no? To them it was just soldiers and
more soldiers.


and a couple of guests showed up, the Gov of
PA, plus a 'star'. Guests had to put on life jackets, and the star
couldn't
quite figure his out, so #1 daughter went over and tied it for him, but
he
tried to 'help'. "Put your f*** hands down, man!" she said to Jack
Palance.
Which he did, quiet as a lamb. She had no idea who he was.

Ah, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Learned
how to talk from her old man, I see.

You may not be aware, but navy folk often talk a bit 'rough', though I
forgive you for not being able to hear them from the cornfields.


Anyway, 2375 is not too bad at age 81! My gosh! That's not too bad at
all.

He no doubt left several masters scratching their heads
in wonder at how they could lose to such an old fellow.

Chess can be a strenuous game, and not only is it
tougher to recall things as you get older, but the clock
seems to speed up on you as well.

Does it though? I see you have made a useful contribution in this thread,
which was to spot the typo. We also spotted it at the same time, and
corrected it promptly.

For someone with such a lot to say you might want to try your own fist at
writing a Vignette.

Phil Innes

I went to chessgames.com and (finally) replayed the
correct moves of this game, where the note about
the King retreating to e7 actually made sense. On
that site, a note can be found in which some poster
borrowed intermittant comments by "Lev Albert and
Larry Parr" ("What villiage idiot...?"). Again, there is
no objectivity; my view is that Rybka could simply
take over in mid game and probably squeak out a
draw through a miraculous defense; but not when
the annotator talks as though Black does not even
get to move while White goes thrice in a row! LOL


-- help bot

On Sep 26, 8:43 am, " wrote:
MISPRINT

In the game to which you refer, the young Mr. Denker

missed an obvious *mate-in-one* by 23.h4++. To me,
this brings into serious question the level of understanding
behind the grandmasterly-looking opening moves. -- Help Bot

Unlike Greg Kennedy, I would not imagine that
Arnold Denker's understanding would be called into question
question even if he had missed a mate in one. But as it turned
out, he did not.

Alas, the Denker-Felt game had a misprint.
The move played was 21. ... Bh3 rather than 21. ... Bh6.
Also the final diagram was wrong.

I am told both mistakes have been rectified. On the other hand,
an annotation after 21. ... Bh6 suggests the move was supposed
to be 21. ... Bh3 as in MY BEST CHESS GAMES 1929-1976 by
GM Arnold Denker (Dover edition, 1981).

With dismay I note that that the mistaken 21.
... Bh6 also appeared in my long Chess Life
appreciation of Arnold (March 2005). On the other
hand, the correct 21. ... B-R6 appeared in the Denker-Parr
volume THE BOBBY FISCHER I KNEW AND OTHER STORIES.

Yours, Larry Parr

Congratulations on a well-written piece, Larry. I was once again
touched by your account of your friendship with GM Denker. You are his
friend still.

On Sep 26, 8:43 am, " wrote:

Unlike Greg Kennedy, I would not imagine that
Arnold Denker's understanding would be called into question
question even if he had missed a mate in one. But as it turned
out, he did not.

FYI: At the time that game was played, the young Mr.
Denker was still in high school, claims to have never
even seen the Dutch Defense in his life, etc.; thus, his
level of understanding was not that of the Arnorld Denker
I Knew and Other Stories. (Many years later, AD was
described as one of the top twenty players in the world,
but not when this game was played.)


Alas, the Denker-Felt game had a misprint.
The move played was 21. ... Bh3 rather than 21. ... Bh6.

My guess is that rather than a printing error, this was
most likely the result of an incompetent translation from
descriptive (B-R6) to algebraic (Bh3/Bh6). It is hardly
surprising that LP would attempt to shift the blame
somewhere else, as that typical for him; but this kind
of denial results in never learning from one's mistakes.
Much better to face the truth, and then go about fixing
the problem, once and for all.

The worst example of this kind of incompetence I have
ever run across was in a translation of a Russian
endgame book; in the algebraic edition, nearly every
other move was wrong, left-to-right being reversed in
countless cases.


With dismay I note that that the mistaken 21.
... Bh6 also appeared in my long Chess Life
appreciation of Arnold (March 2005). On the other
hand, the correct 21. ... B-R6 appeared in the Denker-Parr
volume THE BOBBY FISCHER I KNEW AND OTHER STORIES.

The game makes a better impression (by far) without
the missed mate-in-one, so this is unfortunate. As I
recall, the Web site chessgames.com has 184 games
of Arnold Denker, and this is one of them; their version
is correct, but their commentary may not be if they
happened to borrow from the wrong source, as noted
just above.


-- help bot

On Sep 27, 6:26 am, "Chess One" wrote:

Look here bot - when the Wikipedia Blair-action started, these Vignettes
were a good way to rescue material - amended or not - and kept from
destruction.

I know nothing about any Wiki/Blair wars; who won?
Did they out-quote him, or did his quote-machine prevail?
Is there an actual quote of Dr. Blair surrendering? If you
do not have such a quote, then he must have won.


At the time there were very many opinions about the quality of writing et
cetera - and I responded then as now, 'shut up and show us' if you're so
smart. Get it?

What I "get" is that some folks are not psychologically
equipped to own their own mistakes. They stand in the
kitchen, and whine that it's too hot.



Those scum! The way they treated us, you would
think they owned us or something, like a colony.

That's what the native americans said, no? To them it was just soldiers and
more soldiers.

Here's a snippet: "Rattlesnake Cliffs? That sounds like
someplace *nobody* would want to live." -- Chief Fat Bull

"It's either that, or more blankets laced with small pox."
-- Col. Indyangiver



Ah, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Learned
how to talk from her old man, I see.

You may not be aware, but navy folk often talk a bit 'rough', though I
forgive you for not being able to hear them from the cornfields.

Have you never heard an Iowan corn farmer cuss at his
mule for refusing to budge in the noonday sun? Many a
stubborn mule has had to be buried (or eaten).


Chess can be a strenuous game, and not only is it
tougher to recall things as you get older, but the clock
seems to speed up on you as well.

Does it though?

That depends. I played a fellow once or twice who had
this special clock, where one side -- which he always
placed toward his opponent, ran three times faster than
his side. They say there are nice guys and tough players,
and with this clock, he was a very tough player.


I see you have made a useful contribution in this thread,
which was to spot the typo. We also spotted it at the same time, and
corrected it promptly.

That was not exactly a typo. It looks to be an error
in translating from the old style descriptive notation
to the new, algebraic. You see, in descriptive the
move "B-R6" is a tad ambiguous, unless you have
your bearings and know exactly who is on the move,
what his legal moves are, etc. It's a lot easier for me,
being a chess genius you know, than it would be for
a weaker player.


For someone with such a lot to say you might want to try your own fist at
writing a Vignette.

Okay, so what exactly is a Vignette? I had a
Velocette once; damed unreliable piece of junk...
I got rid of the contraption, and bought a Honda.
Rode it all over.


-- help bot