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#31
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"KARPOV'S OPPONENT"
The Russian players Smyslov, Petrosian, Tal, Geller and Gulko and the Russian crowd of seconds and functionaries heard of the defection on the day it happened. Considering how efficiently information spread by word of mouth in those days in the USSR, every Russian chess player will have known about it the day after all these people returned from Biel. -- Jurgen THIS CRAZY WORLD O F CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 100) Korchnoi became the target of Soviet wrath when he defected in 1976. First they tried to disqualify him from a title shot on the grounds that he was stateless, but FIDE had the courage to declare that challengers represented themselves as individuals, not their nations. FIDE nonetheless bowed to Soviet pressure by forcing Korchnoi to accept a rematch clause that FIDE had stricken in 1963. Then the Soviet Union refused to release Korchnoi’s family and objected to his playing under the flag of his new country, Switzerland. During his 1978 title match, the Soviet press never mentioned his name, referring to him only as "the challenger" or "Karpov’s opponent." Chess always was regarded as an extension of Soviet diplomacy. After World War II, their chess masters were sent on goodwill tours of neighboring states where Russia planned to increase her sphere of influence. Team matches with Hungary and Czechoslovakia preceded the actual takeovers of those nations. Where chess went, tanks followed. Jürgen R. wrote: [...] Fischer sent him a cable congratulating him on his defection in 1976. And Korchnoi sent Fischer a cable congratulating him on his defection in 1992. In a statement to the press shortly after his defection, Korchnoi expressed his pleasure in knowing the predicament Soviet authorities will face when forced to report his results in the Candidates Matches next year. That is the time, he noted, when the millions of Russian chess players will learn of his defection." Nonsense. Korchnoi's defection occurred while the Interzonal in Biel was going on. I was there, playing in a side tournament, and remember hearing the news, which spread like wild fire before it ever hit the newspapers. The Russian players Smyslov, Petrosian, Tal, Geller and Gulko and the Russian crowd of seconds and functionaries heard of the defection on the day it happened. Considering how efficiently information spread by word of mouth in those days in the USSR, every Russian chess player will have known about it the day after all these people returned from Biel. |
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#32
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On May 5, 7:54 am, " wrote:
Then the Soviet Union refused to release Korchnoi’s family I have always had questions about this point. Korchnoi's adopted non-biological son was drafted into the Army and sent to Siberia. It seems doubtful that Korchnoi had a valid claim. How did Korchnoi come to adopt this son? Do you know? Korchnoi's wife sued him as soon as she was allowed to immigrate and arrived in Switzerland. Do you know what happened to that case? Sam Sloan |
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#33
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On May 5, 6:07 am, Jürgen R. wrote:
Fischer sent him a cable congratulating him on his defection in 1976. And Korchnoi sent Fischer a cable congratulating him on his defection in 1992. While Bobby Fischer may well have ranted and raved about other issues -- including his treatment at the hands of the Pasadena police department, an agency of the state of California -- his real beef in 1992 was over money. The IRS would have eaten a big chunk of his winnings, and so too would his state of residence within the USA. I don't think that is exactly comparable to whatever reasons Victor Kortchnoi may have had for defecting. In a statement to the press shortly after his defection, Korchnoi expressed his pleasure in knowing the predicament Soviet authorities will face when forced to report his results in the Candidates Matches next year. That is the time, he noted, when the millions of Russian chess players will learn of his defection." Nonsense. Korchnoi's defection occurred while the Interzonal in Biel was going on. I was there, playing in a side tournament, and remember hearing the news, which spread like wild fire before it ever hit the newspapers. The Russian players Smyslov, Petrosian, Tal, Geller and Gulko and the Russian crowd of seconds and functionaries heard of the defection on the day it happened. Considering how efficiently information spread by word of mouth in those days in the USSR, every Russian chess player will have known about it the day after all these people returned from Biel. Perhaps it was the readers of Chess Lies magazine who did not find out until the following year? That would hardly surprise me... . -- help bot |
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#34
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On May 5, 8:15 am, "Chess One" wrote:
But the effect of other players on Karpov, who can be said to have an artistic temperament to chess, was that he said he could never really get excited [artistically] at the prospect of playing Kasparov - but Korchnoi provided him a huge stimulus - and he quantified that, by saying something like 85% of his creative energies. He then continued on this theme, in Karpov on Karpov, to state that Fischer would have been his greatest challenge, in the 90th percentiles. That is an artistic tribute and a sincere one to Fischer-the-player. It seems likely that this particular blather was a response to the innumerable attacks "on Karpov", but by others. One of these others was of course, Gary Kasparov, who continued to belittle his adversary until he signed a contract forbidding it, not very long ago. The ploy was to suggest that GK was unworthy, or that AK had not necessarily tried his darnedest to excel against him; a rather obvious cop-out or lie. To me, this is no different from the multitude of lies and fabrications told by master story-teller Gary Kasparov, many of which targeted Anatoly Karpov, casting him as the main villain in twisted plots which virtually always contained serious flaws and self-contradictions, not to mention casting errors (GK as the hero??!). Far better if Fischer-the-player had continued to believe in pawns rather than suffer the fate of the [self] abandoned celebrity. Another possibility was for Bobby Fischer to refuse to compete, but at the same time craft numerous works on the game, which quite naturally would have been best-sellers. That would have solved his financial woes, while at the same time affording him an outlet in which to critique the play of other grandmasters, and bash the FIDE, the USCF, and most of all, the Russians and the Jews who were all "out to get him". (Hey, if /I Was Beaten in a Pasadena Jailhouse/ sold, then why not /The World Wide Plot to Get Bobby Fischer/?) -- help bot |
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#35
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GREG FINALLY AGREES WITH US
Greg Kennedy has reached dulcet accord with us. He also now appears to agree with John Hillery. Namely, if as Greg argued, FIDE's title is that organization's property to dispense and dispose of, then Bobby Fischer was indeed still world champion in 1975. Larry Evans' account and, indeed, his use of the term "selfmate" was both accurate and contained a nice referential, low-key pun. It is fine that Greg is now in agreement with yours truly and John Hillery. He required a bit of prodding, and he never knew that FIDE still considered Bobby champion even after his letter of resignation. History, which is Greg's much-hated great conspiracy of knowledge, has stabbed him in the back once again. Finally, Greg has been going on and on about the Karpov-Polugaevsky game from Tilburg. Juergen and he dislike the on-the-scene testimony of Yasser Seirawan. I warrant that most of you realize that Seirawan was not discussing a single move made by Polu but the evident disdain and facial gestures and Karpov's weasel-like embarrassment during the entire endgame. In short, Polu was doing his duty but letting everyone who watched know what was happening. As for Spassky, he was punished by Soviet authorities after finishing ahead of Karpov in a Spanish international tournament. Polugaevsky more or less acted as ordered; Spassky, whom Fischer beat badly, finished ahead of Tolya at a time when such a result was deemed anti-Soviet. He received sanctions and eventually moved to France and became what wascalled a one-legged dissident -- one foot inside Russia and one foot outside.. .. Yours, Larry Parr help bot wrote: On May 4, 4:34 am, wrote: You can argue this one either way. In June of 1974, when FIDE wouldn't agree to his match conditions, Fischer wrote the letter resigning his "FIDE title." In September of 1974, Karpov won the final Candidates Match. In that sense, Kennedy's quibble is correct. However, in May- June 1975, FIDE held another meeting and agreed to _almost_ all of Fischer's conditions. They then sent Fischer a request to play, more or less ignoring the "resignation" letter. When Fischer refused to rely, Karpov was declared the winner by forfeit. Looked at that way, Evans's account is fairly accurate -- by declining to play, Fischer "gave" the title to his (known) opponent. In 1975, Bobby Fischer was not in possession of the FIDE title, so he was in no position to do any such thing. The FIDE title, you see, is controlled by *FIDE* (go figure), and it is *they* who do the giving (or not). There is a thing called a "world championship cycle", and so you see, the old days wherein a single person gives "his" title or refuses to defend it, are over and done with. The real reason the Larry Evans account tries to involve Anatoly Karpov is self-evident; Mr. Evans has for decades been bashing AK as a supposed villain; he seems to know only the mystery- suspense-thriller genre, and no other. (IMO, this was more of a Dr. Strangelove style tragi-comedy.) -- help bot |
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#36
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"help bot" wrote in message ... On May 5, 8:15 am, "Chess One" wrote: But the effect of other players on Karpov, who can be said to have an artistic temperament to chess, was that he said he could never really get excited [artistically] at the prospect of playing Kasparov - but Korchnoi provided him a huge stimulus - and he quantified that, by saying something like 85% of his creative energies. He then continued on this theme, in Karpov on Karpov, to state that Fischer would have been his greatest challenge, in the 90th percentiles. That is an artistic tribute and a sincere one to Fischer-the-player. It seems likely that this particular blather was a response to the innumerable attacks "on Karpov", but by others. Sorry, that sentence doesn't parse. One of these others was of course, Gary Kasparov, who continued to belittle his adversary until he signed a contract forbidding it, not very long ago. 'these others'? Did you announce your own topic yet? What I wrote is that Karpov fessed up to things he did as world champion, that he later was not proud of, and that he is the first I know to have done this in writing. He also admitted a personal element about his own creativity in respect of specific opponents. I do not understand from greg Kennedy who can't even admit his own name, what the hell he knows or thinks or speculates upon - or even what his opinion is, never mind how informed it is. The ploy was to suggest that GK was unworthy, or that AK had not necessarily tried his darnedest to excel against him; a rather obvious cop-out or lie. In what way, even in a general sense, are people who like Bach but not Beethoven deploying cop-out tactics or lying? To me, this is no different from the multitude of lies and fabrications told by master story-teller Gary Kasparov, many of which targeted Anatoly Karpov, casting him as the main villain in twisted plots which virtually always contained serious flaws and self-contradictions, not to mention casting errors (GK as the hero??!). These strong players are all of a muchness to Greg Kennedy, who BTW, had not admitted reading the chess bio I quote from, or anything else to inform his opinions. Maybe all GMs look and act the same to him? Far better if Fischer-the-player had continued to believe in pawns rather than suffer the fate of the [self] abandoned celebrity. Another possibility was for Bobby Fischer to refuse to compete, but at the same time craft numerous works on the game, which quite naturally would have been best-sellers. That would have solved his financial woes, while at Fischer had no especial financial woes [laugh] the same time affording him an outlet in which to critique the play of other grandmasters, and bash the FIDE, the USCF, and most of all, the Russians and the Jews who were all "out to get him". (Hey, if /I Was Beaten in a Pasadena Jailhouse/ sold, then why not /The World Wide Plot to Get Bobby Fischer/?) Because that would be a completely trite response to the issues in his life, and address issues as if written by a persona created by the public, not an actual person. As far as the public was concerned there was no Fischer-the-person, there was only the chess hero. And when heroes don't compete any more for us, we the public resent the fact, and want to punnish the Hero. The fate of abandoned-celebrity is to be treated just as you have done here with Karpov and Kasparov. You can no longer fantasize yourself into their situations, neither can you get there by you own efforts - intolerable situation! - [for fantacists] so you 'kill' him still, even though Fischer is dead. This is why Taimanov said that he pitied all these Russian kids whose only route out of their drab regional futures was their chess, and that he thought was too brittle a base to withstand much of life. Phil Innes -- help bot |
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#37
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On May 9, 2:02 pm, "Chess One" wrote:
It seems likely that this particular blather was a response to the innumerable attacks "on Karpov", but by others. Sorry, that sentence doesn't parse. One of these others was of course, Gary Kasparov, who continued to belittle his adversary until he signed a contract forbidding it, not very long ago. 'these others'? Did you announce your own topic yet? Got issues with not always being parroted or your speculations not just being swallowed whole, every time? Then this is not the place for you, my friend; why not go to the USCF forum, and hire "moderators" to shield your speculations from sunlight? What I wrote is that Karpov fessed up to things he did as world champion, that he later was not proud of, and that he is the first I know to have done this in writing. Indeed. And what I wrote is that I believe he wrote that /in response to/ the innumerable attacks on him. In sum, I don't buy it, any more than I "buy" the lies and fabrications of Mr. Karpov's nemesis, Gary "I never touched it" Kasparov. (At least, I don't think I touched it. Somebody else must have moved it! You can't prove anything. Top of the world, Ma!) Fischer had no especial financial woes [laugh] Alas, the nearly-an-IM legend-in-his-own-mind Phil Innes has forgotten that Mr. Fischer -- who one poster asserted was likely a fine investor and manager of money -- was swindled out of much of his 1972 winnings... like a child. As I recall, Mr. Fischer desired a big house, built in the shape of a Rook. He wanted to be paid big money, like Muhammed Ali was. But he was too scared to write books, on account of everyone being out to get him, see? As far as the public was concerned there was no Fischer-the-person, there was only the chess hero. You are talking about the mindless fans here in the USA. But there are others who read English... who were not so obsessed, or deluded about BF. In fact, David Levy wrote a book about Mr. Fischer, which, far from going over the top, was as they say on the Fox TV channel, /fair and balanced/. Some subjects upon which BF might have "safely" written were the Sicilian Defense, the "Roy" Lopez, and the endgame. None of these entail /personal/ issues, nor even hero worship. People would buy them because they believed BF to be a very strong chess analyst (think of GM Huebner or Fritz-- two powerful analysts who never made it to the pinnacle). And when heroes don't compete any more for us, we the public resent the fact, and want to punnish the Hero. Even so, it is possible for the "hero" to help promote chess -- and make lots of money from it -- by writing books and such without having to compete. (Think of how many Raymond Keene hack-jobs the world could have been saved! Eric Schiller could have been a taxi driver or something, and we would all have /real/ chess books to pore over.) The fate of abandoned-celebrity is to be treated just as you have done here with Karpov and Kasparov. You can no longer fantasize yourself into their situations I keep getting the feeling that some of the hacks here in rgc are a tad frustrated; that they feel a need to /project/ upon me their hearts' greatest unfulfilled desires of greatness in chess. (Why me, I wonder? Is it my innumerable wins at GetClub? My good looks, or amazing charm or wit? Who knows... .) neither can you get there by you own efforts - intolerable situation! - [for fantacists] so you 'kill' him still, even though Fischer is dead. More ad hom. stuff, as always. Note to imbecilic "projectionists": my view is that chess is a horrible *waste* of the human intellect. As such, the weaker you may be (and I expect you are mediocre, at best), the better off you are, for you will be less likely to get sucked in and waste your pitiful lives away on a silly board game. Now then, what constitutes something more worthwhile? The easy answer is the field of medicine, or science, or even sharpening pencils for that matter. What might be worse than wasting one's life away on chess? Well, there is politics, lawyering, the advertising business, and the /ad hominem/ trade. Now, I hope you learned something from all this. Stop your puerile projections, and face your "issues" head-on, like men. (Well, just *pretend* to be men then.) -- help bot |
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#38
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HE COULDA BEEN A CONTENDAH
Note to imbecilic "projectionists": my view is that chess is a horrible *waste* of the human intellect. As such, the weaker you may be (and I expect you are mediocre, at best), the better off you are, for you will be less likely to get sucked in and waste your pitiful lives away on a silly board game. -- Greg Kennedy When you can't excel at something, put it down. By his own admission the Indiana Kid coulda been a contendah if only he had lived in Brooklyn like Bobby. THIS CRAZY WORLD OF CHESS by GM Larry Evans (page 292) "Chess is as elaborate a waste of human intelligence as you can find outside of an advertising agency," sneered novelist Raymond Chandler. help bot wrote: On May 9, 2:02 pm, "Chess One" wrote: It seems likely that this particular blather was a response to the innumerable attacks "on Karpov", but by others. Sorry, that sentence doesn't parse. One of these others was of course, Gary Kasparov, who continued to belittle his adversary until he signed a contract forbidding it, not very long ago. 'these others'? Did you announce your own topic yet? Got issues with not always being parroted or your speculations not just being swallowed whole, every time? Then this is not the place for you, my friend; why not go to the USCF forum, and hire "moderators" to shield your speculations from sunlight? What I wrote is that Karpov fessed up to things he did as world champion, that he later was not proud of, and that he is the first I know to have done this in writing. Indeed. And what I wrote is that I believe he wrote that /in response to/ the innumerable attacks on him. In sum, I don't buy it, any more than I "buy" the lies and fabrications of Mr. Karpov's nemesis, Gary "I never touched it" Kasparov. (At least, I don't think I touched it. Somebody else must have moved it! You can't prove anything. Top of the world, Ma!) Fischer had no especial financial woes [laugh] Alas, the nearly-an-IM legend-in-his-own-mind Phil Innes has forgotten that Mr. Fischer -- who one poster asserted was likely a fine investor and manager of money -- was swindled out of much of his 1972 winnings... like a child. As I recall, Mr. Fischer desired a big house, built in the shape of a Rook. He wanted to be paid big money, like Muhammed Ali was. But he was too scared to write books, on account of everyone being out to get him, see? As far as the public was concerned there was no Fischer-the-person, there was only the chess hero. You are talking about the mindless fans here in the USA. But there are others who read English... who were not so obsessed, or deluded about BF. In fact, David Levy wrote a book about Mr. Fischer, which, far from going over the top, was as they say on the Fox TV channel, /fair and balanced/. Some subjects upon which BF might have "safely" written were the Sicilian Defense, the "Roy" Lopez, and the endgame. None of these entail /personal/ issues, nor even hero worship. People would buy them because they believed BF to be a very strong chess analyst (think of GM Huebner or Fritz-- two powerful analysts who never made it to the pinnacle). And when heroes don't compete any more for us, we the public resent the fact, and want to punnish the Hero. Even so, it is possible for the "hero" to help promote chess -- and make lots of money from it -- by writing books and such without having to compete. (Think of how many Raymond Keene hack-jobs the world could have been saved! Eric Schiller could have been a taxi driver or something, and we would all have /real/ chess books to pore over.) The fate of abandoned-celebrity is to be treated just as you have done here with Karpov and Kasparov. You can no longer fantasize yourself into their situations I keep getting the feeling that some of the hacks here in rgc are a tad frustrated; that they feel a need to /project/ upon me their hearts' greatest unfulfilled desires of greatness in chess. (Why me, I wonder? Is it my innumerable wins at GetClub? My good looks, or amazing charm or wit? Who knows... .) neither can you get there by you own efforts - intolerable situation! - [for fantacists] so you 'kill' him still, even though Fischer is dead. More ad hom. stuff, as always. Note to imbecilic "projectionists": my view is that chess is a horrible *waste* of the human intellect. As such, the weaker you may be (and I expect you are mediocre, at best), the better off you are, for you will be less likely to get sucked in and waste your pitiful lives away on a silly board game. Now then, what constitutes something more worthwhile? The easy answer is the field of medicine, or science, or even sharpening pencils for that matter. What might be worse than wasting one's life away on chess? Well, there is politics, lawyering, the advertising business, and the /ad hominem/ trade. Now, I hope you learned something from all this. Stop your puerile projections, and face your "issues" head-on, like men. (Well, just *pretend* to be men then.) -- help bot |
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#39
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On May 9, 8:30 pm, " wrote:
Note to imbecilic "projectionists": my view is that chess is a horrible *waste* of the human intellect. As such, the weaker you may be When you can't excel at something, put it down. By his own admission the Indiana Kid coulda been a contendah if only he had lived in Brooklyn like Bobby. It must have been the term "imbecilic" that drew Mr. Parr in, like a fly to rotting flesh. One might just as well have called the man by name, so fitting is this term. "Chess is as elaborate a waste of human intelligence as you can find outside of an advertising agency," sneered novelist Raymond Chandler. Indeed, while I read /every day/ about the many virtues of capitalism and the evils of disliked Commie dictators, the sad truth is that there are evils among us, among capitalists. I noted long ago the fact of needless duplications, such as two "struggling" gas stations on nearby corners, each of them splitting the limited business, half and half. Here in the Midwest, nearly every corner "drugstore" has a copycat rival situated kitty-corner, again splitting the business such that each store may struggle to make a decent profit, their respective employees, naturally being less productive in this situation, are paid less to suit. But what really galls is the way that our federal government is set up. Nearly everything seems to revolve more around the two-party war that is ongoing, than about any other issues which may pertain. It reminds me a little of the Hatfields and the McCoys -- two clans who fought for years over the right way to face one's Knights on the chess board (or some other "crucial" issue). The fact remains that from where I stand, the very idea that one's chess rating is indicative of self-worth tells a very revealing tale about these imbecilic projectionists; about how they think (or rather, are simply unable to think). From my perspective, getting roped into an obsession with the game of chess reveals a character flaw; it shows an inability to put life into its proper perspective. It reminds me of the poor fellow whose last act in life was to warn viewers, on camera, to not dare try what he and he alone had done and was capable of doing: filming grizzlies with no protection from being mauled and eaten. That was his last act because, well, you can probably guess. To such imbeciles I have but one word: bear mace. Okay, that's two words... . -- help bot |
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#40
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CAPITALIST WASTE
Greg Kennedy's objections to business competition recalls the argument made by the two British Fabians, Beatrice and Sidney Webb, during the 1930s. They assailed the number of different fountain pen brands and called it capitalist waste. Under socialism, there would be only one brand of fountain pen. The "savings" would go to the people, etc, etc. And so, the Soviets had fountain pens and only adopted ball-points in the final years of their imperium. Of course, one had all of those fountain-pen ink makers and the factories that produced bottles for the fountain-pen ink and the companies that provided the rubber sacs for the ink in the fountain pens, and the factories that produced the various penpoints for the fountain pens and the foundries that provided the metal levers for the fountain pens and the corporations that produced ink removers for spills on paper while writing. Ai, yah. There will always be types like our Greg who will decry the marketplace and imagine that a benevolent regime will make decisions that are more rational. I will post an article that I wrote a year or so before the collapse of the Soviet Union that appeared in the old NY City Tribune as well as Glasnost News & Review dealing with the single-brand-fountain-pen-no- capitalist-waste type of economic logic. After all, the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Khmer Rouge Cambodia (its leaders eliminated capitalist waste nearly in toto) and current North Korea were and, in the case of the latter country, are still run on that logic. Our Greg: always looking to blame someone other than himself for the life he has led in that Indiana factory. Yours, Larry Parr help bot wrote: On May 9, 8:30 pm, " wrote: Note to imbecilic "projectionists": my view is that chess is a horrible *waste* of the human intellect. As such, the weaker you may be When you can't excel at something, put it down. By his own admission the Indiana Kid coulda been a contendah if only he had lived in Brooklyn like Bobby. It must have been the term "imbecilic" that drew Mr. Parr in, like a fly to rotting flesh. One might just as well have called the man by name, so fitting is this term. "Chess is as elaborate a waste of human intelligence as you can find outside of an advertising agency," sneered novelist Raymond Chandler. Indeed, while I read /every day/ about the many virtues of capitalism and the evils of disliked Commie dictators, the sad truth is that there are evils among us, among capitalists. I noted long ago the fact of needless duplications, such as two "struggling" gas stations on nearby corners, each of them splitting the limited business, half and half. Here in the Midwest, nearly every corner "drugstore" has a copycat rival situated kitty-corner, again splitting the business such that each store may struggle to make a decent profit, their respective employees, naturally being less productive in this situation, are paid less to suit. But what really galls is the way that our federal government is set up. Nearly everything seems to revolve more around the two-party war that is ongoing, than about any other issues which may pertain. It reminds me a little of the Hatfields and the McCoys -- two clans who fought for years over the right way to face one's Knights on the chess board (or some other "crucial" issue). The fact remains that from where I stand, the very idea that one's chess rating is indicative of self-worth tells a very revealing tale about these imbecilic projectionists; about how they think (or rather, are simply unable to think). From my perspective, getting roped into an obsession with the game of chess reveals a character flaw; it shows an inability to put life into its proper perspective. It reminds me of the poor fellow whose last act in life was to warn viewers, on camera, to not dare try what he and he alone had done and was capable of doing: filming grizzlies with no protection from being mauled and eaten. That was his last act because, well, you can probably guess. To such imbeciles I have but one word: bear mace. Okay, that's two words... . -- help bot |
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